Rogue Archetype
Moderator <br> Contest Host
<< edit: I'd like to thank people for PMing me and helping me update this with better info/examples >>
Being Unpredictable
Being unpredictable can be a GREAT component of anyone's game strategy.
I love Mareley's Request and Warp Point for this very reason.
Cards like these force your opponents to guess your rationale for making a move and, sometimes, distracts them from following their own strategy.
Being shrewd, tricky, or otherwise hard-to-figure is perfectly within the confines of what's "game legal."
Being a "tricky" player means that you did everything within the boundaries of the game rules and you, still, adhere to the spirit-of-the-game; your opponent simply could not guess your next move... that's all. :biggrin:
DO NOT confuse being a smart, unpredicatble player with being DECEPTIVE.
The Deceptive Player
Many people allow the competitive aspect to drive them to a "by all means necessary" approach to the game.
Their playing resorts to DECEPTIVE BEHAVIOR
When you DECEIVE your opponents, you have willingfully frustrated them by means of underhandedness.
You have NOT acted within the boundaries of the rules or spirit-of-the-game.
The Deceptive player wants to make you believe something false OR wants to create an advantage through distraction.
The deceptive player wants to do something OTHER THAN playing their cards as intended in order to get an advantage over their opponent.
The difference between the a Tricky player and a Deceptive player is INTENT.
The deceptive player INTENDS to make an opponent change their play based on something other than ordinary, friendly gameplay.
"Bluffing" isn't really encouraged in the game of Pokemon, but Whiscash made an analogy that outlines the distinction between someone who is just playing the game and someone who intends to UNDERMINE the game.
ShadowGuard gives us another great example of the difference between BAD Deceptive play and GOOD creative, tricky play.
So, being CREATIVE and playing within the boundaries of the game rules while adhering to Spirit of the Game is a fun and legal way to show off your wits!
BLUFFING
DarthPika gives us the following "bluffing" example:
My opponent is getting ready to drop an uxie. I hold up a card to give the impression that I have a Power Spray in hand. I'm hoping my opponent will not drop the setup card; he won't want to waste the uxie drop to a power spray block. "
Nats Judge "Lawman' gives us the following response:
"This is wrong. It doesn't matter if the card IS a Power Spray or not.
When you "bluff," you are trying to influence the play of your opponent.
That may be alright in OTHER card games, but "bluffing" is not in accordance with POKEMON's Spirit Of The Game guidelines.
IF you have the spray, you would just hold it with the other cards and when they go to uxie or claydol, DROP the spray (if you want to use it then)."
If you intend to get what you want in a manner that isn't right, you're deceiving.
Deceptive play can be in the form of CHEATING as well.
Examples of Deceptive play (from Lawman)
Deceptive play = "A player setting out a copy of Dusknoir Darkpalm power as an outside ref and they dont even have the card in their deck. You are influencing the way your opponent may play by the actions you are taking. "
Deceptive distraction = "Calling over a judge for actions you know are OK. Just to disrupt and frustrate your opponent. Arguing about moves that your opponent has made just to get him hot-and-bothered (i.e. My powers aren't locked anymore because you scooped up the Mesprit in the same turn)"
Putting Your Opponent "on tilt"
In Poker, players trash talk and show bluffs in an effort to frustrate an opponent to the point that they start playing poorly. This is called "putting them ON TILT." The opponent becomes so irritated that they make horrible plays.
In Pokemon, Spirt-of-the-Game guidelines prohibit this strategy; you are not allowed to do it.
Trash-talking and bluffing or otherwise TRYING to frustrate your opponent is NOT a strategy that you are allowed to employ. You are only allowed to play your cards to the table; no "mindgames" are encouraged in the FAMILY FUN game of Pokemon.
CHEATING
The highest level of deceptive play is OUTRIGHT CHEATING.
When cheating, the player simply makes no attempt to follow the rules.
He wants to gain an advantage by performing actions that are not allowed.
Here's a couple of real-life examples of CHEATING:
Tricky: Using Azelf's "Time Walk"
You bench Azelf, announce time walk, grab an Uxie LvX. You play a Warp point. Your opponent looks at that Uxie LA that you have benched and ASSUMES you're about to level up and Zen Blade. Your opponent pushes up something that expects to get Zen Bladed. You slide up the uxie, level it up, retreat it, push up the AZELF , attach the energy THERE , and attack with LOCK UP so they can't retreat what just got warped in. Now, you've bought yourself a stall turn to get things going.
That's tricky, if your opponent didn't guess your move. There were no intentions of giving your opponent false information. There was nothing underhanded about your play.
Deceptive: Using Azelf's "Time Walk"
You bench Azelf, announce time walk, get a good look at your cards, grab a Power Spray and show your opponent an Unown G that you're putting in prizes. Your opponent is associating the pokemon that was supposed to retreived with that Unown G you showed them. You broke the rules by grabbing a Trainer card instead of a pokemon. When your opponent wakes-up and says "hey, which pokemon did you get from the prizes?" You just show him whatever pokemon happens to be in your hand at that time...
Surely, you can see the difference... right?... .RIGHT??!
Alot of Cheating is premeditated.
It is done with a "plan B" to avoid repercussions if caught. Here's an example of how my wife was denied Top-Cut in a CCs this year by a not-so-honest deceptive play.
Wife playing Machamp
Opponent playing Kingdra
Wife attacks Kingdra. Hits rolls with Hurricane Punch.
Kingdra attaches unown Q , discards an energy, and retreats. Plays Felicitiies for more energy to discard. Attacks with new Kingdra.
Wife attacks new Kingdra. Hits rolls with Hurricane Punch.
Kingdra attaches unown Q , discards an energy, and retreats. Plays Felicitiies for more energy to discard. Regice a couple of energy to discard. Attacks with injured Kingdra.
KO's Machamp #1
Wife promotes New Champ and KOs Kingdra with Hurricane Punch.
Opponent promotes injured Kingdra #2 w/ unown Q , attaches an energy , discards an energy, and retreats to fresh new Benched Kingdra. Regice a couple of energy to discard.
Attacks with AQUA PUMP for the KO to New Champ.
Did anybody see anything suspect with the Kingdra player's moves?
Deception = He discarded energy to retreat while Unown Q was attached to ALL of his Kingdras!
This gave him enough energy to KO a fresh Machamp w/ Aqua Pump.
The dude went on to lose in Top Cut, but do you REALLY want to brag about Top cutting that way?
(he did brag .. and still does about making it ... We don't even bring up the fact that we know what he did ... if he's happy with himself, then... there you go..
)
My wife was SO down on herself for not catching that right away.
The MESSED UP thing about deceptive players is when you catch them, the action is hard to rewind and YOU end up with some kind of a penalty for telling the judge! (i.e. "you get a caution and you get a warning" or.. "you get a warning and you get a prize card").
The disgusting part about the deceptive player is they KNOW they'll eventually get caught so they rehearse several outs ... like "No. I didn't do that. I did this because remember that?" They prey on the person who doesn't think it's worth the trouble and says " Ok... whatever.. go ahead"
Which Player Are You ? - Deceptive or Tricky? or.. just a Grinder?
_____ THE CLUMSY PLAYER _____
Now... DO NOT confuse the deceptive player with the CLUMSY player (usually older) like me. I find myself doing the dumbest things when I'm focused on strategy. One of my favorites is when I played a PokeRadar, grabed 3 pokemon and shuffled the remaining cards into the discard pile! :lol:
I was playing #1 VA player M. Pramawat who just looks at me and calmly says.. "uh... you're shuffling your cards into your discard pile...with *bewildered straight faced expression* "
Between that and my Flying Card shuffles, he just KNEW he was playing an absolute noob... lol
He was so patient though. He just sat there and tolerated the clumsiness.. .
LET'S AVOID BEING DECEPTIVE (and let's not cheat either!)
Here are some things to remember:
1. When using Power Spray... USE IT! Don't wait to see the oppoenents NEXT play and THEN decide you'll power spray.
2. When your opponent is playing a SP/G deck, POINT to the card that you will use the power from and announce the power. Then ask "are you going to spray it?" This will avoid SO MANY cautions/warnings/rewinds later. It's better to have him spray the action at that time then to have to call a judge over and hear the "he didn't announce the Cosmic Power! I was going to spray it and he never announced it"
3. If you notice your opponent is distracted, GET HIS/HER ATTENTION! Then, do your action (whatever it is). Saying "I did that. You were looking over there" is not good.
4. If you see that a play was accidental, allow the freakin' take-back .. ok ? That's just good ol' sportsmanship folks. This is why I POINT to the card when I announce the powers. Because I'm totally capable of saying "Psychic Restore" instead of "Cosmic Power" or some clumsy slip like that. I've had knuckleheads say "no, you attacked w/ psychic restore" and the Uxie is on the bench ... :nonono: Really? You're gonna hold me to THAT? Mistakes and slip-ups happen. Know when to allow and disallow.
Homework: KNOW THESE GUIDELINES BY SATURDAY! They are Sportsmanship PUI guidelines provided by M. Liesik
Being Unpredictable
Being unpredictable can be a GREAT component of anyone's game strategy.
I love Mareley's Request and Warp Point for this very reason.
Cards like these force your opponents to guess your rationale for making a move and, sometimes, distracts them from following their own strategy.
Being shrewd, tricky, or otherwise hard-to-figure is perfectly within the confines of what's "game legal."
Being a "tricky" player means that you did everything within the boundaries of the game rules and you, still, adhere to the spirit-of-the-game; your opponent simply could not guess your next move... that's all. :biggrin:
DO NOT confuse being a smart, unpredicatble player with being DECEPTIVE.
The Deceptive Player
Many people allow the competitive aspect to drive them to a "by all means necessary" approach to the game.
Their playing resorts to DECEPTIVE BEHAVIOR
When you DECEIVE your opponents, you have willingfully frustrated them by means of underhandedness.
You have NOT acted within the boundaries of the rules or spirit-of-the-game.
The Deceptive player wants to make you believe something false OR wants to create an advantage through distraction.
The deceptive player wants to do something OTHER THAN playing their cards as intended in order to get an advantage over their opponent.
- This includes waiting for actions to become un-rewindable so the opponent can get a prize or game loss.
- Trash talking and other unsportsmanlike conduct that is intended to throw the opponent off his/her game.
The difference between the a Tricky player and a Deceptive player is INTENT.
The deceptive player INTENDS to make an opponent change their play based on something other than ordinary, friendly gameplay.
"Bluffing" isn't really encouraged in the game of Pokemon, but Whiscash made an analogy that outlines the distinction between someone who is just playing the game and someone who intends to UNDERMINE the game.
ShadowGuard gives us another great example of the difference between BAD Deceptive play and GOOD creative, tricky play.
So, being CREATIVE and playing within the boundaries of the game rules while adhering to Spirit of the Game is a fun and legal way to show off your wits!
BLUFFING
DarthPika gives us the following "bluffing" example:
My opponent is getting ready to drop an uxie. I hold up a card to give the impression that I have a Power Spray in hand. I'm hoping my opponent will not drop the setup card; he won't want to waste the uxie drop to a power spray block. "
Nats Judge "Lawman' gives us the following response:
"This is wrong. It doesn't matter if the card IS a Power Spray or not.
When you "bluff," you are trying to influence the play of your opponent.
That may be alright in OTHER card games, but "bluffing" is not in accordance with POKEMON's Spirit Of The Game guidelines.
IF you have the spray, you would just hold it with the other cards and when they go to uxie or claydol, DROP the spray (if you want to use it then)."
If you intend to get what you want in a manner that isn't right, you're deceiving.
Deceptive play can be in the form of CHEATING as well.
Examples of Deceptive play (from Lawman)
Deceptive play = "A player setting out a copy of Dusknoir Darkpalm power as an outside ref and they dont even have the card in their deck. You are influencing the way your opponent may play by the actions you are taking. "
Deceptive distraction = "Calling over a judge for actions you know are OK. Just to disrupt and frustrate your opponent. Arguing about moves that your opponent has made just to get him hot-and-bothered (i.e. My powers aren't locked anymore because you scooped up the Mesprit in the same turn)"
Putting Your Opponent "on tilt"
In Poker, players trash talk and show bluffs in an effort to frustrate an opponent to the point that they start playing poorly. This is called "putting them ON TILT." The opponent becomes so irritated that they make horrible plays.
In Pokemon, Spirt-of-the-Game guidelines prohibit this strategy; you are not allowed to do it.
Trash-talking and bluffing or otherwise TRYING to frustrate your opponent is NOT a strategy that you are allowed to employ. You are only allowed to play your cards to the table; no "mindgames" are encouraged in the FAMILY FUN game of Pokemon.
CHEATING
The highest level of deceptive play is OUTRIGHT CHEATING.
When cheating, the player simply makes no attempt to follow the rules.
He wants to gain an advantage by performing actions that are not allowed.
Here's a couple of real-life examples of CHEATING:
Tricky: Using Azelf's "Time Walk"
You bench Azelf, announce time walk, grab an Uxie LvX. You play a Warp point. Your opponent looks at that Uxie LA that you have benched and ASSUMES you're about to level up and Zen Blade. Your opponent pushes up something that expects to get Zen Bladed. You slide up the uxie, level it up, retreat it, push up the AZELF , attach the energy THERE , and attack with LOCK UP so they can't retreat what just got warped in. Now, you've bought yourself a stall turn to get things going.
That's tricky, if your opponent didn't guess your move. There were no intentions of giving your opponent false information. There was nothing underhanded about your play.
Deceptive: Using Azelf's "Time Walk"
You bench Azelf, announce time walk, get a good look at your cards, grab a Power Spray and show your opponent an Unown G that you're putting in prizes. Your opponent is associating the pokemon that was supposed to retreived with that Unown G you showed them. You broke the rules by grabbing a Trainer card instead of a pokemon. When your opponent wakes-up and says "hey, which pokemon did you get from the prizes?" You just show him whatever pokemon happens to be in your hand at that time...
Surely, you can see the difference... right?... .RIGHT??!
Alot of Cheating is premeditated.
It is done with a "plan B" to avoid repercussions if caught. Here's an example of how my wife was denied Top-Cut in a CCs this year by a not-so-honest deceptive play.
Wife playing Machamp
Opponent playing Kingdra
Wife attacks Kingdra. Hits rolls with Hurricane Punch.
Kingdra attaches unown Q , discards an energy, and retreats. Plays Felicitiies for more energy to discard. Attacks with new Kingdra.
Wife attacks new Kingdra. Hits rolls with Hurricane Punch.
Kingdra attaches unown Q , discards an energy, and retreats. Plays Felicitiies for more energy to discard. Regice a couple of energy to discard. Attacks with injured Kingdra.
KO's Machamp #1
Wife promotes New Champ and KOs Kingdra with Hurricane Punch.
Opponent promotes injured Kingdra #2 w/ unown Q , attaches an energy , discards an energy, and retreats to fresh new Benched Kingdra. Regice a couple of energy to discard.
Attacks with AQUA PUMP for the KO to New Champ.
Did anybody see anything suspect with the Kingdra player's moves?
Deception = He discarded energy to retreat while Unown Q was attached to ALL of his Kingdras!
This gave him enough energy to KO a fresh Machamp w/ Aqua Pump.
The dude went on to lose in Top Cut, but do you REALLY want to brag about Top cutting that way?
(he did brag .. and still does about making it ... We don't even bring up the fact that we know what he did ... if he's happy with himself, then... there you go..
)My wife was SO down on herself for not catching that right away.
The MESSED UP thing about deceptive players is when you catch them, the action is hard to rewind and YOU end up with some kind of a penalty for telling the judge! (i.e. "you get a caution and you get a warning" or.. "you get a warning and you get a prize card").
The disgusting part about the deceptive player is they KNOW they'll eventually get caught so they rehearse several outs ... like "No. I didn't do that. I did this because remember that?" They prey on the person who doesn't think it's worth the trouble and says " Ok... whatever.. go ahead"
Which Player Are You ? - Deceptive or Tricky? or.. just a Grinder?
_____ THE CLUMSY PLAYER _____
Now... DO NOT confuse the deceptive player with the CLUMSY player (usually older) like me. I find myself doing the dumbest things when I'm focused on strategy. One of my favorites is when I played a PokeRadar, grabed 3 pokemon and shuffled the remaining cards into the discard pile! :lol:
I was playing #1 VA player M. Pramawat who just looks at me and calmly says.. "uh... you're shuffling your cards into your discard pile...with *bewildered straight faced expression* "
Between that and my Flying Card shuffles, he just KNEW he was playing an absolute noob... lol
He was so patient though. He just sat there and tolerated the clumsiness.. .
LET'S AVOID BEING DECEPTIVE (and let's not cheat either!)
Here are some things to remember:
1. When using Power Spray... USE IT! Don't wait to see the oppoenents NEXT play and THEN decide you'll power spray.
2. When your opponent is playing a SP/G deck, POINT to the card that you will use the power from and announce the power. Then ask "are you going to spray it?" This will avoid SO MANY cautions/warnings/rewinds later. It's better to have him spray the action at that time then to have to call a judge over and hear the "he didn't announce the Cosmic Power! I was going to spray it and he never announced it"
3. If you notice your opponent is distracted, GET HIS/HER ATTENTION! Then, do your action (whatever it is). Saying "I did that. You were looking over there" is not good.
4. If you see that a play was accidental, allow the freakin' take-back .. ok ? That's just good ol' sportsmanship folks. This is why I POINT to the card when I announce the powers. Because I'm totally capable of saying "Psychic Restore" instead of "Cosmic Power" or some clumsy slip like that. I've had knuckleheads say "no, you attacked w/ psychic restore" and the Uxie is on the bench ... :nonono: Really? You're gonna hold me to THAT? Mistakes and slip-ups happen. Know when to allow and disallow.
Homework: KNOW THESE GUIDELINES BY SATURDAY! They are Sportsmanship PUI guidelines provided by M. Liesik
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