Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

What people need to wake up and see about gengar...

Stigma

Stigma

New Member
WAKE UP. Gengar is NOT that great of a card. It's NEVER a good thing to let your opponent determine your damage.
All you have to do to win against gengar is keep your hand clear of trainers, G your claydol and one other important pokemon, and work around fainting spell. You WIN. They can't do ANYTHING.

Also - always remember that, if you have a claydol in play, you should draw ONE card with looker's. It will probably not be a trainer, and poltergeist will do no damage. They are then stuck shadow rooming, and if you have things with unown G guarding them, shadow room isn't painful at all.

Really, it's not a hard deck to beat, I don't know why people are calling it or machamp tier one.
Putting gengar and machamp together makes things even worse, which is another thing people need to wake up and see. Instead of 1 inconsistent deck that falls apart mid-game, and is based on a lot of luck, you have TWO put together. So you're pretty much guaranteed to draw NOTHING when setting up because of all the random crap in GeChamp, fall apart midgame, and if you have bad luck, only get about 3 prizes.

Flygon is the real threat that people need to focus on...
 
Gengar is just a cheap card with that power. Not every deck can play around with. And you dont always get those G's. And you can't always control what Claydol makes you draw. That said, Gengar alone isn't that great.
As far as GeChamp is concerned, its just a good deck against SP. Thats why people run it, probably. Take out their pokes, Poltergeist their Toxicroak and G'd threats (Given SP's decks tendencies to have huge hands). I refuse to call GeChamp a real deck though.

Now as far as Flygon goes, if you want something that's overrated, you just named it...
 
There ARE ways to play around Gengar for a lot of decks, but not all of them are always available. Gengar is a fast deck with cheap attacks, the ability to snipe, a decent disruptive Basic, and a horrible PokePower when it is triggered.

True, it has got less effective as people have learned to play around the Power, and it doesn't have the 'surprise' factor any more (it wasn't played hardly at all before States), but it is still a pretty good deck in this format.

Flygon, I'm not so sure about. It has a lot going for it, but unless you rely on a LV X, or you play an SP deck with no anti-Mewtwo tech (not a smart move), then its attacks are good, but not great.
 
It seems easy to play around Gengar, but it's not always possible.

Flygon however is just as easily played around - in that aspect it's similar to Gengar. Just don't Lv X unless you have to, don't play any stadium down and they're left with a standard damage attack for 3 energy.

Most decks don't need Lv X's to run in the first place anyway.
 
Sand wall is really not used very much, and in a GOOD flygon, power swing will consistently hit for 100-120 damage [[sp darks included]] Which is a big threat to most decks. People also doubt the power of not playing LV Xes and they doubt wind erosion's power.
 
This is a common mistake in the TCG. Cards that look good on paper will be played more then those don't look overpowering. I have yet to touch a RR card but I honestly don't see how Flygon is that great. Gengar has never given any good player hard times neither does Machamp or the combination of both.

If Flygon is really giving you problems play a tech Dusknoir (D/P). It beat it in two ways, reduces bench space and has resistance to it. It can buy you time by taking hits. For Machamp and Gengar there is Unown G and Uxie. Uxie is also helpful vs. Gengar as when it attacks and you bottom deck it Gengar doesn't get to flip.

Almost every deck uses Uxie and Unown G. So I don't know what why players can't play around it.

The only time a Gengar deck has beaten me is when I prized an Unown G and two Snovers on top of having 4 bad cards after 2 consecutive Let Loose on Turn 1. Even then it was a very close game.
 
See, what people fail to understand is that the techs MAKE flygon a good deck. It's SO easily techable, and hits fairly hard to boot. It stops stadiums and level Xes, etc. It's just a pile of good matchups!
 
As a speedgar player, I will say that Gengar's hype has grown to ridiculous proportions. I will say two things, however.

Firstly, Gengar isn't as easy to play around as alot of people say it is. 'Oh, I can just Uxie' or 'Oh, I can just poison' is a nice answer to Fainting Spell, or 'I'll just G my Claydol' is a nice answer to Shadow Room, but that's based largely on assumption and theory. Not everyone plays Unown G properly, nor can alot of people get it out on time. It's a fact that the majority of times a good Gengar player can get a Gengar out just as fast as Guard gets put into player. Uxie's attack also works on two assumptions - that you have an Uxie (which isn't very likely, considering that Gengar thrives off picking off easy kills such as Uxie), a backup attacker ready and that you're willing to put yourself one energy behind in an energy intensive metagame. Looker's? I use it to look at your hand and see what you have. I've only very rarely had to tell my opponent to shuffle, and most of the time they've only drawn one card, and I could care less. It's sound on paper, beating it and all that, but when it goes into practice it's a bit more difficult to do.

My second point, however, does coincide with your talk of the hype surrounding it. Yes, I agree that we have issues talking about Gengar and how it's the 'end all' sort of card (which is definitely isn't). I mean, I believe Dialga G poses a bigger threat (especially since it's one of the few Lost Zone-capable pokemon in circulation) with all the support it gets now, and Machamp will pose a bigger threat when Unown G gets rotated out (you can argue all you want on this, but it's true). I do believe that Gengar's 'high point' is during States, where people weren't expecting it that much and more focused on trashcan G decks, so there's a bit of confusion as to why it decided to become popular now.
 
Gengar is beast for the simple fact that all three attacks and powers on the card are over good.

It's power destroys Lots of decks and in most decent decks that I have seen they all play 1-2 Unown G.

So they have to waste time setting up to get those unown G's.

I played Gengar at Nats's and got second. And the funny thing is I only used Poltergiest 4 times that whole day.

And I got under average flips ( But most the time the they did counter it with poison Crobat etc)


In my opionion no deck can do these three things fast: Get 2-1 Unown G on your pokemon, Dump all Trainers from your hand and not trigger F.Spell.

The most will tend to be 2.

I 100% agree with you on Gechamp in testing it was really inconsistant.

Gengar is just a completely irritating deck to play and that's why it is so good.

Gengar IMP Is tier 2.
 
See - Uxie really ISN'T an answer. I understand that. But from what I've seen, Gengar tends to have issues getting its last 1-2 prizes. So even if they take a couple while you set up, you WILL get set up eventually, and will sweep from there if you have a way to bypass fainting spell.
Decks WITHOUT a way to bypass it ARE in trouble though, I'll admit that.
 
Stigma said:
See - Uxie really ISN'T an answer. I understand that. But from what I've seen, Gengar tends to have issues getting its last 1-2 prizes. So even if they take a couple while you set up, you WILL get set up eventually, and will sweep from there if you have a way to bypass fainting spell.
Decks WITHOUT a way to bypass it ARE in trouble though, I'll admit that.
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You just contradicted your self there. For decks that don't have an answer to Fainting Spell, Uxie is the answer. Uxie will also help those same decks that need to set-up, by doing it quicker.

So unless you bring up valid points on how Uxie doesn't help against Gengar besides saying "See, Uxie really isn't an answer." Then you have lost this argument.

For the person saying that wasting an energy drop on Uxie isn't worth it let me ask you this: Is it worth it to go on a 50/50 chance and having your main attacker gone? For me it's not.
 
The only problem I have with Gengar is that it rewards the player for having his/her pokemon KO'd, which is essentially giving you a prize for losing. It contradicts normal gameplay by letting you take a prize for losing your own pokemon. It's like a Pitty-Power rather than Pokemon-Power.
 
Stigma said:
WAKE UP. Gengar is NOT that great of a card. It's NEVER a good thing to let your opponent determine your damage.
All you have to do to win against gengar is keep your hand clear of trainers, G your claydol and one other important pokemon, and work around fainting spell. You WIN. They can't do ANYTHING.

Also - always remember that, if you have a claydol in play, you should draw ONE card with looker's. It will probably not be a trainer, and poltergeist will do no damage. They are then stuck shadow rooming, and if you have things with unown G guarding them, shadow room isn't painful at all.

Really, it's not a hard deck to beat, I don't know why people are calling it or machamp tier one.
Putting gengar and machamp together makes things even worse, which is another thing people need to wake up and see. Instead of 1 inconsistent deck that falls apart mid-game, and is based on a lot of luck, you have TWO put together. So you're pretty much guaranteed to draw NOTHING when setting up because of all the random crap in GeChamp, fall apart midgame, and if you have bad luck, only get about 3 prizes.

Flygon is the real threat that people need to focus on...
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What you need to realize is that you're pretty wrong. Gengar is one of the best stage 2s printed in a while. It's Kingdra and a bag of chips.

1. Shadow Room forces your deck to run Unown G, a card that doesn't fit in all decks, in order to block it some of the time, which is really hard to do early game. You'll need to find it fast enough in order to save your Claydol, and you won't want to waste it on Uxie/Azelf.

2. You must be looking at Poltergeist the wrong way. You're not determining how much damage it does. It's forcing you to get rid of useful cards in your hand before it ever does damage. You really want to be stuck with energy and Pokemon in your hand all game? When I do see you playing a lot of trainers or a G'd up Claydol, I probably won't use Poltergeist anyways, so big deal if it doesn't do a lot of damage.

3. There are several decks that can't work around Fainting Spell, and Nidoqueen stops the few that can. With Nidoqueen, Fainting Spell has become one of the most dangerous powers in the format.

I agree with you about GeChamp, though. The problem isn't that both Gengar and Machamp are "inconsistent decks that fall apart mid-game." That's just not true. If they can keep a Claydol on the table they are both set until late game. The problem is that in order to get the full benefit out of Machamp, you want it to be active all the time. Gengar is the same way. It takes up space in the deck that could be used to put damage counters on stuff so Shadow Room has more reach, like Crobats, Blowers, Cresselia Lv. X, etc.

Flygon isn't that big of a threat IMO. It has potential, but most lists end up being so teched out that other decks are faster, more consistent, and less frustrating. It's also pretty mismatched in a non-SP-heavy meta, with hard matchups against Beedrill, Gengar, Kingdra, BlazeTran, and PorygonZ, all decks where your Lv. X is a 20 HP boost that discards maybe 3 cards of the top of the deck.

You need to wake up and actually look at your cards. Gengar is very flexible and is definitely tier 1, much more so than Flygon.
 
@MrDraz:
How about toning down the spite a little?
Do you honestly believe gengar is more flexible than flygon? Really? I'd like that explained, I really don't believe it is.
I understand that nidoqueen is fairly nasty in gengar, but I'm still not the biggest fan.
Also, even when your opponent does trigger fainting spell, it's still inconsistent. I understand that gengar "forces" decks to play certain things, which is a powerful trait, but when they do play those certain things, it really screws you over.
 
Sorry, I don't speak caveman-english.
And who's to say those matches were against good players? Were they at premier tournaments? I need to learn to play? Fail.
 
Stigma said:
Sorry, I don't speak caveman-english.
And who's to say those matches were against good players? Were they at premier tournaments? I need to learn to play? Fail.
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Now we know why u are in the 'Hatter' team lol
Tone it down, he is just trying to help, and he is right anyway, Gengar>flygon
 
I believe Gengar is much more flexible than Flygon. All Flygon does is give people free retreat until Power Swing comes online, which is either over-costed or doesn't do enough damage, one of the two. You might discard some stadiums and stop some damage once in a while, but there are few good decks that rely on stadiums for Sand Wall to be a big hassle. Bench hitters don't even care about not being able to touch Flygon, and a handy Warp Point makes that attack a measly 40 damage for 2. Flygon Lv. X is something everyone's gonna see from miles away, and from what we've seen, there aren't that many dangerous Lv. Xs in the meta winning tournaments that your other attackers or Power Swing couldn't handle. My only conclusion is that Flygon only helps decent evolved attackers by giving them free retreat and "big" attacks.

Gengar is a lot more flexible. From turn 1 on, you have to adapt your strategy to be able to avoid Shadow Room and Poltergeist. The fact that Gengar can attack before you have a chance to react makes it dangerous. Crobat also lets the Gengar player take a prize the turn after Shadow Room happens, which is basically card draw. Most non-SP decks can't stop Crobats, and you take advantage of decks packing Power Spray with Poltergeist. With Crobats adding damage and taking prizes without having to attack by just playing them, it opens up your attack options. Fainting Spell is really just a bonus on all of this, and is what puts Gengar over the top. With Nidoqueen now in the deck, there are few ways that Gengar doesn't get the opportunity to use Fainting Spell.

Trust me, Gengar is tier 1 and Flygon is not.
 
I can see how flygon could be good. Usually on a bench there is at least one claydol with another flygon (or the stage one ready to evolve), and the weavile, in witch flygons attack dose 90 damage, and with at lest 2 special darkness attached it dose 110 damage with only 3 bench slots taken up. Also weavile helps counter dusknoir's resistance and makes flygon turn in to it's wakness. Though this will only be true to those that are running weavile in the deck. It dose sound a little slow though witch can be a big problum in this fast paced format.
Now gengar it's defently a good card still, though not as good as it was before everyone knew about it. Right now there is just soo mutch hype about this card, but in reality it is a easy card to tech agenst to make your matchup A LOT more easyer. But a smart player playing gengar will probly have more wins under there belt. Like wise a person who is experienced facing gengar will do what they have to do to keep gengar from using it's power or able to deal huge damage with poltergeist . Though with how convinant the attck cost are on gengar it's defently the more flexible card, though I am not saying flygon is not...it's just slower than gengar and so people cand see it coming and prepare for a flygon while with gengar they can just rare candy gengar attach an energy and shadow room.
 
what does flygon do? well, it either gets setup fast with stark/felicitys/gather sand, or turns into a clunky mess and you cant do anything because you have a hand of techs and BTS's.
but what does gengar do? well, as far as i know its the only card IN THE GAME that can DONK SNIPE and can OHKO your opponent's active pokemon on your opponent's turn with a heads flip. no biggie. just amazing.
 
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