Home Schooling

[waynegg]

This could also easily be a lie, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. (I'm not calling you a liar, that's just some of my real world common sense kicking in, just ignore it. Also, "BURN!")

Paraphrase- I'm not calling you a liar, but you are a liar... In your face!

nice.

I've never met any home schoolers who have those issues, never ever.

The only thing I can gather from this is maybe they do have social development issues that are the same as the issue maybe you have without realizing and you can't see it. I haven't met and known a few home schooled children, as you say, I have met and known MANY and they all have one or more social issues which they may have not had if they attended public school. That doesn't make you a bad person.

Or maybe you're right. I haven't met every home schooler so it is not only possible, but very probable there is a significant percentage who are well balanced and exhibit none of these. Just not from what I have seen personally and it doesn't change my original argument that home schoolers aren't allowed to fully develop socially.

you starting posting things like facts that aren't facts and because you think all home schoolers completely lack social skills and common sense

Please quote me as saying anything is a dead solid fact, and then quote me where i ever said all home schoolers completely lack social skills and common sense. Everything I have posted I said came from personal experience. I'll go back and bold it and turn it green if you can't find it otherwise.

If I had ever said all home schoolers completely lack social skills and common sense, that would be a fact. A fact is something which can be either proven or disproven. Not to be confused with true or false.

Please don't twist my words- I'm not twisting yours.

 

[afstandopleren]

@Whinegg: GROW UP! If you can't handle a kid that corrects you while you know the kid is correct and feel everything it says as a personal attack then there is something seriously wrong with you as an so called adult. If you can't handle it, be the adult one and LEAVE IT BE and walk away.There is no discussion AT ALL between you and ToxicTaipan and it seems that you are hellbend on getting this thread closed. Enough is enough, know when to quit.

 

[waynegg]

@Whinegg: GROW UP! If you can't handle a kid that corrects you while you know the kid is correct and feel everything it says as a personal attack then there is something seriously wrong with you as an so called adult. If you can't handle it, be the adult one and LEAVE IT BE and walk away.There is no discussion AT ALL between you and ToxicTaipan and it seems that you are hellbend on getting this thread closed. Enough is enough, know when to quit.

He and I are debating what we both feel are issues and I bet on this Toxic would agree.. I haven't let any of it offend me. I just used his mildly flaming remarks to emphasize over reacting to a differing of opinion.

I'm not trying to get his thread closed and I haven't crossed the line. Neither has he. You just did, but that doesn't bother me either and I hope the mods will simply edit it if they find a need rather than lock the thread. Debate is healthy. If you don't care for debate, maybe you shouldn't read it.

Debate is when two opposing sides of an issue argue their points while conceding some aspects and rebutting others. I have conceded some of his points and he mine. He seems to be a very intelligent person, and mature beyond his age as he hasn't digressed to name calling and such. Debate makes a person use their mind as a tool. If he were being childish, I would have long since left this discussion.

 

[toxictaipan]

Please quote me as saying anything is a dead solid fact, and then quote me where i ever said all home schoolers completely lack social skills and common sense. Everything I have posted I said came from personal experience. I'll go back and bold it and turn it green if you can't find it otherwise.
A fact is something which can be either proven or disproven. Not to be confused with true or false.

Please don't twist my words- I'm not twisting yours.

home school is a double edged sword..

pros- you can learn in a safe controlled environment, and in a few cases learn far more depending on the program, structure, and commitment.

cons- 1.you never learn how to interact in society. 2.you don't have a grasp for social structure, though you really think you do. book smarts only carry you so far. if you lack the common sense, which can only be gained through experience with MANY types of people constantly including those you can't stand, you will be so taken advantage of it's unreal.

Also, for a very large part, i see home school students on this site making such basic mistakes with their grammar (there, their, and they're among others) due to obvious ignorance; and whole posts which are run-on sentences with varied thoughts and no periods and without a thought (again, obvious ignorance) as to how and when to punctuate, it makes me severely question why home school isn't more stringently regulated.

There is no mention of your personal experience in this post. All of those statements can be disproven by finding just one home schooled student who doesn't fit those stereotypes. You don't say that you're specifically using them as facts, but they are statements that can be disproven.

I said you would say that you would really think you have the same or better social skills that a public school student has, but I'm sorry home school students don't. Every home schooled student I have met is introverted, an elitist, and to some extent anthropophobic.



I have no argument on this level. Home schoolers who go on to college are well adapted to do the college level work and excel at making the grade. They had a good program through high school for learning. However, this has nothing to do with social skills and interacting with others whom are not like you.

You clearly said that they don't have the same or better social skills. You never said, "completely," I said that and that's my mistake. You do mention your personal experience from this point onward throughout the debate. Also, that underlined statement can also be disproven by finding a home schooled student who has the same or better social skills as a public school student.



So you're not specifically calling them facts, so I don't know how convincing this post will be, but you are posting sure statements that can be disproven.


EDIT:

He and I are debating what we both feel are issues and I bet on this Toxic would agree.. I haven't let any of it offend me. I just used his mildly flaming remarks to emphasize over reacting to a differing of opinion.

I'm not trying to get his thread closed and I haven't crossed the line. Neither has he. You just did, but that doesn't bother me either and I hope the mods will simply edit it if they find a need rather than lock the thread. Debate is healthy. If you don't care for debate, maybe you shouldn't read it.

Debate is when two opposing sides of an issue argue there points while conceding some aspects and rebutting others. I have conceded some of his points and he mine. He seems to be a very intelligent person, and mature beyond his age as he hasn't digressed to name calling and such. Debate makes a person use their mind as a tool. If he were being childish, I would have long since left this discussion.

Wow, uhm, wow. That was... unexpected. Thanks! Same to you. He's right, though, afstandopleren. I don't mind, we're having a civil debate now.

 

[Sandslash7]

The only thing I can gather from this is maybe they do have social development issues that are the same as the issue maybe you have without realizing and you can't see it. I haven't met and known a few home schooled children, as you say, I have met and known MANY and they all have one or more social issues which they may have not had if they attended public school. That doesn't make you a bad person. I bolded what I think is the crux of the matter. Yes, I still hold that you hit a bad crop of HS students, but those students, given a traditional public schooling could still have developed those characteristics on their(haha) own. There really isn't any way to determine whether they might have developed those character flaws when exposed to a public school setting. In fact, I don't think that being introverted is at all a flaw. Some people are just different.



Please quote me as saying anything is a dead solid fact, and then quote me where i ever said all home schoolers completely lack social skills and common sense. Everything I have posted I said came from personal experience. I'll go back and bold it and turn it green if you can't find it otherwise.

If I had ever said all home schoolers completely lack social skills and common sense, that would be a fact. A fact is something which can be either proven or disproven. Not to be confused with true or false.

See bolded replies.

Afstandolpleren, I found humor in your post. (and by that I mean I lol'd). There has not been much stepping over lines between them.


Homeofmew. Statistics is not that challenging of a course, and I took that in home school during high school, through an online academy that focuses on teaching the 'more difficult subjects' that normal parents don't have mastery of. There are ways to take these classes during one's home school career. However, calculus is not a required course to graduate from high school. Sure you can take it for AP/College credit, but that is not part of the standards of graduation. If a student desired to take them as college credit classes, there are possibly ways of dual enrollment to satisfy the advanced mind of that kind of student. (I really haven't looked into it)

 

[waynegg]

In the first post, I was implying my personal experience and i agree i should have siad it was from personal experience. I googled studies on the subject of social development in home schoolers and found as many praising it as I found damning it before I ever started to post. Other than personal experience, the fact that every home school program online has a study which was done that came out with only positive results told me it was an issue and that alone I used as an unspoken backbone, until now, to my views. If it weren't true, why would all of the programs have a so called independent study posted on their website? Studies can be driven down a path to arrive at the results you want to arrive at after all.

See bolded replies.

Afstandolpleren, I found humor in your post. (and by that I mean I lol'd). There has not been much stepping over lines between them.


Homeofmew. Statistics is not that challenging of a course, and I took that in home school during high school, through an online academy that focuses on teaching the 'more difficult subjects' that normal parents don't have mastery of. There are ways to take these classes during one's home school career. However, calculus is not a required course to graduate from high school. Sure you can take it for AP/College credit, but that is not part of the standards of graduation. If a student desired to take them as college credit classes, there are possibly ways of dual enrollment to satisfy the advanced mind of that kind of student. (I really haven't looked into it)

I agree with your bolded comments; it's just hard to pass up a good debate! :lol: Also, say my side of the argument is 100% airtight correct; once you are thrown out into the real world it wouldn't take being burned too many times before you developed some of those crucial social skills you missed when younger.

And yes, there is a system of dual enrollment.

 

[toxictaipan]

In the first post, I was implying my personal experience and i agree i should have siad it was from personal experience. I googled studies on the subject of social development in home schoolers and found as many praising it as I found damning it before I ever started to post. Other than personal experience, the fact that every home school program online has a study which was done that came out with only positive results told me it was an issue and that alone I used as an unspoken backbone, until now, to my views. If it weren't true, why would all of the programs have a so called independent study posted on their website? Studies can be driven down a path to arrive at the results you want to arrive at after all.

I'm bad about that. I don't do muh reseach for my debates, I usually just go off of personal experiences. I should look into it a bit more. It could only better my debating.

Also, say my side of the argument is 100% airtight correct; once you are thrown out into the real world it wouldn't take being burned too many times before you developed some of those crucial social skills you missed when younger.

That was a point I had about the subject that I forgot to post. :redface:

 

[LegacyEeveeVGC]

First of all, I would like to kindly ask you to not post that big, ugly red thing on the top of your post again. I don't come in other people's threads hell bent on them getting lock'd like everyone here seems to be.

Secondly, where you quoted waynegg. (I've edited it to say, "Reply by waynegg to toxictaipan...." since quotes inside quotes don't work by default) So you agree with him? I flamed him and attacked him on a personal level? That on my lead others followed suit, also flaming him? And of all, you agree I'm elitist? Wow, I thought I knew you better than that. Did you read this post?

Third, that last section, at the end. I feel the same way about you. We're just like that together. I mean, you obviously don't mind being around me that much, do you? That's just how our personalities interact. Ask someone else we both know if I'm like that ALL that time.

I would like clarification, though. When have you ever asked for my view on something, then once I heard yours, told you that you were wrong? I honestly don't recall anything.

Alright, I didn't know that. No need to go all commando bold on me. :lol:

Never said you did, besides you have your own threads.
Yes I agree with him to a point.
Also better then what?
If you are gonna use a put down at least say what I am.
I do know what a lot of people think of you.
Some like you and some do not.
A few think you just like to argue over something that nothing can be done about.
I never ask for veiws on anything.
You do.
Also I know Elitist and yes you are one, not all the way, but you are.
Also I think a Debate board online or getting on a Debate them would be good for you.
(That is meant in a positive way)

I did read the post.
I saw "EDITED: Many times."

 

[toxictaipan]

Never said you did, besides you have your own threads.
Yes I agree with him to a point.
Also better then what?
If you are gonna use a put down at least say what I am.
I do know what a lot of people think of you.
Some like you and some do not.
A few think you just like to argue over something that nothing can be done about.
I never ask for veiws on anything.
You do.
Also I know Elitist and yes you are one, not all the way, but you are.
Also I think a Debate board online or getting on a Debate them would be good for you.
(That is meant in a positive way)

I did read the post.
I saw "EDITED: Many times."

Oh, sorry. I misread your last post. The sentence had some mispellings in there. I was kinda confused when I read it.

I'm not putting you down. I just didn't know you thought I was an elitist. That's what I meant by, "Wow, I thought I knew you better than that." Sorry for the confusion.

And I don't like arguing over stuff that nothing can be done about. This is a debate meant to discuss views on home schooling. It never had the intentions to change anything, not even opinions. Once again, my common sense thread was just asking for opinions. I'm not out to change the world. :/

 

[DarthPika]

Waynegg, I've come to the conclusion that you live in a weird part of the country as far as HS goes. All the HS people around me are perfectly normal.

I was homeschooled, yet I know how to deal with rude people/people I HATE/jerks/etc... Please, don't assume we're stupid. It's just simple logic to know how to act around others, even if you dislike them.

Also, did you ever consider that personalities play a role in this? For example, an introverted parent would naturally want to HS his/her children. It's only to be expected that the most/all of the children would also be introverted and perhaps dislike being around other people for extended periods of time.

 

[homeofmew]

Sandslash7: Of course Statistics isn't a challenging course, but you still get college credit for it. It does help to know what all the greek letters mean in statistics. There are actually few things with Ststictics that can get challenging, knowing exactly when you have bad samples, bias/whatever.

I was just giving examples, most people,like myself wouldn't have any issues picking up Statistics from reading a well detailed book. It does help when you have an instructor though who already knows the material. And this is the case for any class.

 

[waynegg]

Waynegg, I've come to the conclusion that you live in a weird part of the country as far as HS goes. All the HS people around me are perfectly normal.

I was homeschooled, yet I know how to deal with rude people/people I HATE/jerks/etc... Please, don't assume we're stupid. It's just simple logic to know how to act around others, even if you dislike them.

Also, did you ever consider that personalities play a role in this? For example, an introverted parent would naturally want to HS his/her children. It's only to be expected that the most/all of the children would also be introverted and perhaps dislike being around other people for extended periods of time.

LOL! Speak of the devil! You were one of the 2 HS kids I've had any knowledge of that is overly cynical. You have your issues too, just the extreme flip side of the coin, and I don't think anyone would disagree with me there. You for sure don't mind speaking your mind in no uncertain terms ! :lol:

And yes, I have taken all of that into consideration.

 

[DarthPika]

LOL! Speak of the devil! You were one of the 2 HS kids I've had any knowledge of that is overly cynical. You have your issues too, just the extreme flip side of the coin, and I don't think anyone would disagree with me there. You for sure don't mind speaking your mind in no uncertain terms ! :lol:

And yes, I have taken all of that into consideration.

Trust me, I would be like that HS or not. Yes, I agree with you. :tongue::lol:

I suggest googling INTP personality profile. I'm not alone and it has nothing to do with being home schooled. :wink:

 

[gashmoigidy]

Well, here's what I've got out of this thread. No one will ever back down from what school they go to. What does this tell me? That there are great points on both sides. i'd love being home schooled, more time and I can choose to see my friends if I want to. But, the fact that I couldn't be with them all day would make things less fun. On the public school side, I like it cuz there's more activities and clubs to be in, and you can hang with your friends all day. But the negatives are it takes more time and there's bad teachers sometimes. Overall they're both school in the end, which sucks. But there are good points some people JUST WONT LISTEN TO REASON because they have their reasons and think everything about their school is perfect. The people in question just need to open there eyes a little and see the good in the opposite. Have a nice day!

-Gash (not really I hate it when people leave their name at the end we can read their username at the top of their post lol)

 

[Interference]

Late to the party, but here's my two cents:

I was homeschooled from kindergarten all the way through high school. I also took dual-credit college courses at my local community college from my sophomore year until I graduated. I'm now a sophomore student at Texas A&M University. I've heard nearly everything there is to say for and against homeschooling.

Arguments against almost always state that a homeschooled child doesn't understand the real world while staying in his little bubble reading books at home. That this child won't be prepared socially when it's time to enter the real world. I understand how you could think this, because nearly 100% of natural born Americans grew up in public schools and they consider this the real world from ages 5-18.
I just fail to see how public schools are considered the "real world" when it is populated with people who aren't fully developed mentally or socially.
I got a job when I was 15 and worked all the way through high school, working hours other kids my age couldn't because they were locked in schooling until 4 in the afternoon. To me, that's the real world. Being a part of the working population is probably what most would think is the real world, too.
I think it's a little unfair to judge homeschooling based off the 1 or 2 sort of odd homeschoolers you've probably met, because not all public schoolers are "normal" either.

I sort of forgot where I was going with this... but I guess I should state that I had plenty of friends and social interactions while in grade school, though I hate saying that. The first question I'm usually asked by people unfamiliar with homeschooling is, "Did you have any friends?" (which, by the way, is a little condescending in my opinion, but I can't really blame anyone when they're genuinely curious)

For the record, I have nothing against public schooling or anyone who is/was publicly schooled. I'm actually enrolled in a public school at the moment :lol:. I just think people should be a little more open to families who homeschool for their reasons, and so far I think people have. Homeschooling was definitely more of an oddity 7 or 8 years ago than it is now. I just don't like the attitude that, "Because you didn't grow up the way I did, you must have something wrong with you." This line of thinking goes for high-and-mighty homeschoolers, too, which I am saddened to see are quiet vocal in this thread.

Edit: No, I didn't read this whole thread either. It seemed to be a lot about statistics and whatnot. I just wanted to offer my personal experiences and thoughts on them.

 

[LegacyEeveeVGC]

Also Toxic you might want to stop arguing you are only proving some of his points.
I disagree with a lot of what he is saying too, but he has some points and some not, but this is kinda fun to watch.
I take not side here.
Both have valid points and both sides points have exceptions.
Can we end this now?

 

[Qwachansey]

Waynegg, I've come to the conclusion that you live in a weird part of the country as far as HS goes. All the HS people around me are perfectly normal.

I was homeschooled, yet I know how to deal with rude people/people I HATE/jerks/etc... Please, don't assume we're stupid. It's just simple logic to know how to act around others, even if you dislike them.

Also, did you ever consider that personalities play a role in this? For example, an introverted parent would naturally want to HS his/her children. It's only to be expected that the most/all of the children would also be introverted and perhaps dislike being around other people for extended periods of time.

Well, I've only talked to you once, and in the entire thread you went on and on about how much of an idiot I was even though you had absolutely no evidence...

I'm not sure you know how to deal with people you dislike (assuming you dislike me? I haven't a clue).

When I was young, I used to think people I disliked were "stupid". Now I realize they can be intelligent - they just use their intelligence in a way other than what I would pick, or a way that is what I find morally wrong.


The only time I can see someone I *hate* (and yes, hate is a strong word) being stupid is George W. Bush, Jr.

I have only known one home schooled child, and they were very socially awkward. However, since I have very little experience in the matter, I find it wiser not to argue which is better - it merely depends on what style of learning you prefer.

 

[Ness]

home school is a double edged sword..

pros- you can learn in a safe controlled environment, and in a few cases learn far more depending on the program, structure, and commitment.

cons- you never learn how to interact in society. you don't have a grasp for social structure, though you really think you do. book smarts only carry you so far. if you lack the common sense, which can only be gained through experience with MANY types of people constantly including those you can't stand, you will be so taken advantage of it's unreal.

Love this post! Couldn't agree more.

It blows my mind that anyone would ever homeschool their kids. If you think homeschooled kids interact normally, think of every homeschooled person you know. Nearly every person I've ever met that is homeschooled is socially awkward. I think most of us agree there is a plethora of teenagers and young adults that are or were homeschooled that play Pokemon. Although I interact with probably 100 Pokemon TCG players regularly, only two or three of them are or were home-schooled. Where are all these home-schooled people? The answer is that most of them are too shy to try to befriend me. A sad reality! Let me also add that when I have conversations with someone who is or was homeschooled, I am constantly blown away by some common sense things they lack.

You absolutely need the constant social interaction from a variety of different people to develop into a normal functioning, social adult. I heard someone complain about all the "stupid people" at public schools. Get used to it, that's real life - and there are stupid people everywhere you go.

Home Schooling is punishing kids. You can't protect your children from all of the bad in the world all the time. You're better off letting them go to a public school where they inevitably will encounter bad people so that they learn what kind of people they can and can't trust. I grow so frustrated at anyone who would actually be so stubborn as to think homeschooling is a good idea. I don't see why this isn't common sense.

 

[afstandopleren]

If I really was socially awkward, I'd repsond to you like this, Ness: HI Nuss, since I dun't know you, I can say to your ineternet face that your post is wrung. *droooooool*

And again, another 1 side minded post. Which is weird, when responding to a post that explains the pros and cons.

EDIT: How about we talk about the pros and cons of public schools for a change? I myself have a longer list of cons then pros.

 

[Dual_Draw]

I've got a question, through Home Schooling can you learn about career options and have practice at them? Where do Home Schooled kids learn about the stuff I'm learning through my Drafting and Film class?