Why 'Playground' doesn't let the player going 2nd get around Evolution rules

[waynegg]

You can never evolve your Pokemon normally (as in without the use of a Trainer, Stadium, attack, etc.) on your first turn. The fact that Playground puts Pokemon into play which weren't played during set up doesn't get around that. Playground doesn't create a unique situation, you just have to know where to look for the ruling. Let's look at the ruling for the Trainer card 'Challenge!' from Team rocket. Here is the ruling for the card:

== CHALLENGE! (Team Rocket Expansion)
Q. If my opponent goes first and uses Challenge, and I put basics on my bench, can I evolve them when my turn comes? Note it will be my first turn.

A. No, you can never evolve your Pokemon on the first turn you play in the game. However, if this happens later in the game then you would be able to evolve those Pokemon on your turn. (Jan 9, 2003 WotC Chat, Q436)

Which can be found here.

 

[Heatherdu]

I was just discussing this with other players last night. We came to the same conclusion that nowhere does the Pichu card say or imply that it breaks the first turn no evolution rule, Still, I think it is great that players are thinking about and discussing the rules. Plus, I would like to know if anyone that keeps track of the Japanese forums has seen it ruled differently on the chance that we missed something in translation. I don't think so, but it has happened a few times in the past.

 

[goliaththegreat]

Wow,my friends and I thought it got around that rule.I guess that makes the Pichu a little better knowing they can't evolve right away.

 

[DarthPika]

It's still a 30 HP starter that just begs to be donked. :/

 

[Happiny13]

It really doesn't beg to be donked. Shuppet is really the only thing that can donk it and shuppet decks don't even run more than 2 Shuppet so they likely won't have one if they go first. If they go second you have five other benched pokemon.

 

[i_shikaXD]

Lol machop will kick it to death, sableye donksit, comp c and luxray can do it with dce lol.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

But then how come Duskull can evolve T1? Its Item doesn't say that it breaks the 1st turn rule, only that it breaks the Turn it comes into play rule.

 

[evil psyduck]

But then how come Duskull can evolve T1? Its Item doesn't say that it breaks the 1st turn rule, only that it breaks the Turn it comes into play rule.

It comes into play when the game starts.

 

[Prime]

Doesn't a pokemon have to be in play for one of your turns before you can evolve it? Even if your opponent allows you to fill your bench, those pokemon you put on your bench haven't been in play for one of your turns so they can't evolve.

 

[PokePop]

Doesn't a pokemon have to be in play for one of your turns before you can evolve it? Even if your opponent allows you to fill your bench, those pokemon you put on your bench haven't been in play for one of your turns so they can't evolve.

No, this is not correct.
A Pokemon must be in play since the beginning of the turn that you want to evolve it or level it up.
Except, of course for the first turn of each player.
That has it's own rule laid out in the rule book.

Reaper Cloth talks about evolving right away. Could it be worded better?
Sure. But it's evolving by an effect. That's allowed.

Where, oh where, oh where, does it say ANYWHERE on Pichu ANYTHING about evolving the Pokemon it puts into play?
NOWHERE.
So it just doesn't bypass any standard rule.
Comparing it to another card that talks about evolving early is meaningless.

 

[Happiny13]

The only deck running Sableye is Gyarados and Gyarados doesn't run dark energies. Machop only does 20 damage and some people run the DP machop. Pichu doesn't have a weakness. So that leaves Garchomp and Luxray needing a DCE. Along with that high chance you probably got another basic in your starting hand so you wouldn't get donked.

 

[waynegg]

The only deck running Sableye is Gyarados and Gyarados doesn't run dark energies. Machop only does 20 damage and some people run the DP machop. Pichu doesn't have a weakness. So that leaves Garchomp and Luxray needing a DCE. Along with that high chance you probably got another basic in your starting hand so you wouldn't get donked.

None of that means anything when you flip heads after your turn and wake up. Then there is a whole host of Pokemon which will shred Pichu, or any of the other babies for that matter, giving your opponent an easy prize. It's not invulnerable.

 

[Kayle]

The only deck running Sableye is Gyarados and Gyarados doesn't run dark energies.

That's just what they want you to think.

(Not kidding. Gyarados will Sableye donk you.)

 

[Happiny13]

I know it's not invulnerable, but it actually isn't that easy to be knocked out before you have a full bench. From there on you might be able to retreat pichu. If not then you lose a prize but chances are you can KO their main attacker. Kayle, why would Gyarados run darkness energy when it already has a good matchup against the one deck that makes use of Pichu: Jumpluff.

 

[ApachePrime]

No, this is not correct.
A Pokemon must be in play since the beginning of the turn that you want to evolve it or level it up.
Except, of course for the first turn of each player.
That has it's own rule laid out in the rule book.

Reaper Cloth talks about evolving right away. Could it be worded better?
Sure. But it's evolving by an effect. That's allowed.

Where, oh where, oh where, does it say ANYWHERE on Pichu ANYTHING about evolving the Pokemon it puts into play?
NOWHERE.
So it just doesn't bypass any standard rule.
Comparing it to another card that talks about evolving early is meaningless.

So to clarify, if a person were to use Playground on the second turn, that person's opponent could evolve the pokemon they got out with Playground?

 

[ryanvergel]

if a person going second were to use playground on their first turn, would the opponent be able to evolve on their turn since the pokemon was in play at the start of that person's turn and it was not prevented by being that person's first turn?

 

[PokePop]

Right.
If the person going second uses it, by the time it gets around to the first player, it's now the second turn and so the player can evolve eligible Pokemon.

What Pokemon are eligible? Any Pokemon that has been in play since the beginning of that turn.
And Pokemon played by Playground were put in play during the last player's turn, so they are eligible.

 

[tehmoe]

pichu will get tyrogued for the game on t1 thats how it loses

 

[renfield89]

The most relatable circumstance that I use to ease this into my reasoning is this:

Player A opens Pichu. Player B opens with active Pokemon X and benched Pokemon Y.
If player A goes first and passes, Player B can't evolve Pokemon Y, now can they? Even though it has been in play prior to their first turn. Had player A used "Playground," how would you differentiate between previously benched Pokemon Y and newly placed Pokemon Z1, Z2, and Z3, etc.? You know you can't evolve Pokemon Y because its the first turn. "Playground" follows the same procedure.

 

[NoPoke]

To evolve normally you have to meet two conditions.
- The pokemon has to have been in play before you drew your card for the turn.
-- You have to have had a previous turn.

If you meet the first condition you then check the second. A game effect that breaks the first condition doesn't check the second subsidiary condition as by breaking the first you are no longer evolving normally and the second condition is not applied.