About typing English.

[gallade]

i try not to 1337 3435|<, but i don't really care about I or i etc.

 

[Kayle]

Am I though? Once you weed your way through all the mushy stuff, I'd rather be a stupid Ivy-league graduate who BS'd all his papers than a genius who couldn't afford to pay his way through college. A pays better than B.

Didn't you say something close to the opposite of this earlier on?

Do you IM, text, use a social networking site, or visit the Deck Help & Strategy forum on a weekly basis?

I IM and text daily. In fact, I probably send and recieve about 500 texts every week. Some of my friends will drop capitalization and minor particles of punctuation in favor of the slightly improved speed. No one uses chatspeak.

Poorly worded posts/bad English is part of the reason I don't go to the DH&S forum anymore.

Haha, the moment after I hit 'send' I read over my post and realized I was setting myself up for that. While it is a clever retort, I would really hope it doesn't strain your brain. Aren't you a college student? I'm sure it wouldn't even take a full honest effort to understand. 'r', 'u', 'h8', etc, should be much easier to understand than the advanced English vocabulary you might encounter in a college-level Lit class.

The "advanced English vocabulary" makes perfect sense to me, honestly. And as clever of a retort as it was, I wasn't kidding. Reading it makes my speed screech to a halt and it's almost painful to keep going and switch gears, only to know I now have to switch back. So you're all into saving time here, aren't I justified in completely skipping over that post so I can keep reading stuff that doesn't slow me down?

Absolutely. I don't think we should be submitting résumés in chatspeak. However, I don't really think Pokégym is a formal place, do you? Just as it should require more diligence to submit an application in a formal setting, people should not be required to be diligent in an informal setting, so long as they get their points across.

I would consider Pokegym about on level with a League or tournament. Sure, you can go to those places without showering and dressed like a slob, but everyone's going to be disgusted with you!

GSG's "degree 1" chatspeak is appropriate. You don't have to wear the suit and the tie, even though I like to (metaphorically speaking). But at least come looking nice, ok?

My impression upon reading this post is that you are both stuck-up snobs. If I didn't know better, that's the perception of you that I'd carry away with me. I merely think that modern society encourages enmity towards users of chatspeak. I do think people should type out posts to the extent that they can be understood, but unless you can't name letters and numerals, my example should suffice. Placing end punctuation after a sentence and also capitalizing the next letter is unnecessary; the punctuation should suffice. Using 1 in place of ! (which has become slightly memetic) is more efficient because you don't have to press shift. Typing out 'you' when there is a letter read the exact same way is yet another unnecessary element of the language.

You really should take up Japanese, you would adore it. We're going to teach you hiragana! Write out the verb "to study", which is "benkyoushimasu". That's 8 hiragana. Four months later, we'll teach you the kanji, which is pronounced the exact same way and read with the exact same meaning - and is even considered MORE formal - but only takes up 5 characters: two for benkyou (I think. I haven't actually learned this kanji yet.), one for the verb "suru", and two hiragana for the conjugation of suru.

Japanese don't bother with capitalization or anything silly like that. When using formal language, you don't use any punctuation other than a period (maru) either; "ka" accomplishes question marks, and "yo" basically accomplishes an exclaimation point.

I would reply to this a little bit more on-track, but the next statement covers the same point, so...

So you would say it's unfair to judge someone poorly because they're lazy and they think looking good is a waste of time?

Proper grammar on a forum is like a suit and tie to work.

No, it isn't. As I have stressed, this is not a formal setting. It's more like pajamas to bed, or designer boots vs sneakers; don't have to have them, but some people prefer them.

I note that you fail to address the more important and more aggressive point, which is that you are feeling upset because I am judging "you" based on the perception your rendering of the English language creates.

I'm no communications major, but from my understanding of it, the crux of communication and of a written or spoken message is that you are at the mercy of the interpretation of your audience. No matter how nicely you dress it up, you cannot escape that the reciever of a message is more important than the speaker. The perception trumps the intent, because perception is what is acted upon. You could be the best person to have as a friend in the world; if you talk in slurs and curse a lot and don't take care of your body or your image to look good, because it feels like a waste of your time, you don't have a right to be affronted when everyone else thinks poorly of you. No one will care about what lies underneath that (your message) because their interpretation of you is what they act upon, no matter how sad or misinformed that may seem.

If there is an emnity in our society against chatspeakers (which I highly doubt actually exists at a higher level, by the way; it's seeming to become popular as a corporate symbol in some companies), I think it's fairly justified because it's not rooted in the belief that you're stupid, per se - though it's often treated as such - rather, it's rooted in the perception that you do not care to look nice when you address someone.

When you introduce yourself to someone new, do you say, "Sup homie!" I certainly hope not. Sure, some people will really like that or at least will be okay with it, and you'll get favorable responses. And to be fair, it's fairly easy to tell most of the time which people those are. But it's strikingly similar to coming into a forum and introducing yourself with chatspeak. You're slurring the language because you feel casual and lazy about it, and you don't know that the other people around you are going to be okay with that - by which I mean, you may well be introducing yourself to people who think patience is a virtue and the extra effort put into typing out your message in full is worth every moment spent on it.

I don't think that Pokémon as a whole encourages the concept of a formal setting.

Okay, let's talk about Jacob Lesage. Why do you think P!P lashed out at their brand new World champ? Hmm?

I understand this; however, if you continually practice doing something wrong, it is worse than no practice at all. For example, in this sentence you used 'less' to describe the word 'mistakes'. The word you're looking for is 'fewer', as 'less' does not modify countable nouns.

That's ad hominem and I would hope that you know it. It serves no true purpose to bolstering your argument except to make him look stupid and to make you look like a snob (whoa hey that sounds familiar).

Not to mention, you just repeated his point: practicing something wrong is *worse than no practice (read: practicing it wrong is really, really bad). Typing in chatspeak constantly = practicing English WRONG.

I know what a meme is though - it's just you'll frequently find them used in chatspeak, and to say that 'moar' is not chatspeak is absurd.

This is somewhat off topic, but you're not quite correct. Moar is not chatspeak. It is not a butchering of the word "more". It is actually its own word and it has its own meaning and use - a somewhat sardonic and exaggerated version of its predecessor, but still its own meaning nonetheless.

Related to both the above statement and to the argument at large, though - I do "speak chatspeak" at times. Watch me in a private conversation with one of my close friends, particularly in IM. I use low-degree time savers all the time; I skip out on punctuation where it can be easily implied, for the most part. But watch my texts, also. When I am nervous or concerned, you'll see a lot of "..." and "um...". What a huge waste of time! But I do it specifically to communicate my mood and my emotions, things that are otherwise lost on the viewer of the text (and when you're texting your girlfriend that tends to be kind of important).

The chatspeak tends to come in when I'm amused. If you see a sentence typed by me that has lower-case i and no punctuation - and often with screwy words like "moar" or shortened forms like "u" - I'm usually being extremely sarcastic, and doing so to create a humorous impression on those who are reading my words. I haven't used this technique at large, granted, but I have yet to see it totally fail. The fact that I constantly type in 'perfect' English [less mistakes is probably something I would not have caught, even though looking at it I'm aware it's wrong] sets up for that sudden stop and pause of confusion that the poor grammar creates, which in turn forces them to consider the words more; the confusing turns into the ludicrous and the appropriate reaction results. Yes, I do actually think these things through, on some level.

I'm not the only one who does it. Case in point.

Speaking on teh interwebz. Ur doin it ... strangely ...

ur doin it rong.

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't find these humorous, since they were making fun of you/your argument specifically, but whatever your reaction was, it certainly was not the same as the one you would have made if someone else, a stranger, had come in and posted the same thing.

For me, "chatspeak" is a literary device used to create sarcasm and humor. It's a weapon in my arsenal, a tool in my handy box. As a well-versed mechanic/soldier it bugs me to see people using it all over the place like it's some kind of handy fix. Duct tape is a great thing, and you can do a LOT with it, but just because you can doesn't mean you should.

I'd like to agree with GSG, it's nice to have coherent back-and-forth debate with people sometimes. Makes me have hope for the internet. >>"



EDIT: worse. not better. -_-

 

[Mama_Luigi]

I don't mind abbreviations and acronyms, but leaving out letters in words to make them shorter annoys me as I have a mild case of dyslexia.

 

[baby mario]

Whether or not you think it's 'fair' or 'correct', people will judge you by how you type (especially when they have nothing else to go on).

Many will not bother with Box of Fail's 'look at me, I'm EVER so smart' stuff and just see textspeak as being lazy and ignorant. It might bother you what they think, it might not . . . but right or wrong, that's what will happen.

 

[toxictaipan]

Box of Fail:

You are extremely misinterpreting my posts and I feel that this is hindering our debate. I can type out my replies in "chatspeak" from now on to eliminate any further confusion if you so require. Please let me know.


---------- Post added 02/13/2011 at 12:57 AM ----------

EDIT: Nevermind. Not worth it.
EDIT #2: Wait, yes it is. Courtesy of this.

No. In my experience, it's quicker to think out a sentence before you begin typing (though I often amend my sentence a little as I go along). However, I can do this in chatspeak; I don't understand why this is a point in the favor of correct grammar. Yes, think out your sentences, but also type them in chatspeak. If you think out a grammatically correct sentence and then think out a sentence and type it in chatspeak, it doesn't somehow help the case of grammatical correctness.

CAN U NOT COMPR3HEND WUT U READ CHILD?!?!??!?? OMG LOL ITS NOT A POINT IN FAVOR OF CORECT GRMMAR!!1!1!1 WTH LOL U SAY TAHT CHATSP3AK SI SUP3RIOR 2 FORMAL 3NGLISH BASICALY B/C L3S CHARACTERS 2 TYPE = TYPNG LES = LAS TIEM TYPNG!!111! WTH WHIEL THES SI TRU3 IMM TRYNG 2 SAY TAHT THEYRE R MOR3 VARIABLAS INVOLVED THAN JUST DA NUMBR OF CHARACT3RS U INPUT!1!11111 IF U WARE 2 ELIMINAET AL OTHAR VARIABLAS THAN Y3S CHATSPAAK SI FASTER 2 TYPA THAN FORMAL ENGLISH!!!1!1! OMG UR SAYNG CHATSPAAK SI FAST3R IMM SAYNG NOT NECASARILEY!!1!11!! LOL THEIR R FAR 2 MANY OTHER VARIABLES INVOLVED!!1111! OMG WTH IM PERSONALY NOT UESD 2 TYPNG IN CHATSPEAK AND SO IM MUCH SLOWAR AT IT THAN TYPNG OUT FUL SENTENCES EV3N THOUGH MAH WORDS CONTANE MANY MOR3 LATARS THAN THEYRE ABREVIAETD VARSIONS
!111! OMG

I understand this; however, if you continually practice doing something wrong, it is worse than no practice at all. For example, in this sentence you used 'less' to describe the word 'mistakes'. The word you're looking for is 'fewer', as 'less' does not modify countable nouns. Now, I'm sure you've unknowingly practiced it this way several times, which could only have strengthened this bad habit. Had I not corrected you, you would only have been intensifying your habit of making this grammatical mistake. If your English skills start off perfect, then this is a good way of maintaining them; if not, you might be digging a deeper hole for yourself without peers to correct you.

Perhaps it's because I spent a good part of my time online as a grammar Nazi who belittled chatspeak users, that now I notice these little nuances of grammar. However, if you don't care about good grammar, but you want to get your point across, 'less' works fine. Just like 'ppl' over 'people.'

I used to see it your way, but I don't anymore. Why? Because when you think about it, thinking less of someone based on how much dedication they put into their post is ridiculous (and usually just an excuse to look down on someone).

DID I S3RIOSLEY JUST READ WUT I THINK I READ?!!!!? LOL TAHTS A GOD POINT TAHT I WAS 3XPECTNG U 2 UES!11!11 OMG LOL I UND3RSTAND TAHT R3INFORCNG BAD HABITS ONLEY STR3NGTH3NS THEM!1!111! WTH LOL HOW3V3R IF UR IMPLYNG TAHT CONTINUOSLEY R3P3ATNG JUST A FEW MISTAEKS WHIEL STIL PRACTICNG MOSTLEY COR3CT GRMMAR SI ACTUALY WORSA FOR U THAN NOT PRACTICNG AT AL (WHICH WIL ONLEY CAUES U 2 FORG3T STUF TAHT U KNOW SI CORECT) I CAN ONLEY CONCLUDA TAHT U MUST B TROLIN!!!!11111 OMG LOL I BASICALY READ TAHT AS DONT PRACTIEC AT AL IF UR GONG 2 MAEK ANY MISTAEKS WUT!!!!1!!!! OMG U WIL ONLEY DO MORE HARM THAN GOD BY REPEATNG A SMAL NUMBR OF MISTAEKS WHIEL OTHERWIES TYPNG PROP3RLEY!!1111! OMG
I P3RSONALY RATHAR HAEV AN ACHILES’ HEL OR TWO THAN NO L3GS 2 WOK ON AT AL BUT HEY TAHTS JUST ME!!1111!! LOL ALSO THIS

Not to mention, you just repeated his point: practicing something wrong is worse than no practice (read: practicing it wrong is really, really bad). Typing in chatspeak constantly = practicing English WRONG.

LOK DUDE!11!!11 OMG I DONT THINK L3S OF SOMEON3 B/C OF DA WAY TH3Y TYPE AND IMM NOT A GRMMAR NAZI!1!!1!1 OMG LOL I DONT MIND A FAW LITLE MISTAEKS HER3 AND TH3RA!1!!!111 LOL NO ONA SI P3RF3CT!11!!1!! OMG LOL I CAN R3AD CHATSPAAK AND I CAN TYPE IT (ALBIT SLOWLY)!!11! WTH LOL TAHT DOESNT MAAN I HAEV 2 LIEK IT AND TAHT DOES NOT MEAN TAHT IT SI APROPRIAET FOR AL SITUATIONS!!11!11 WTH LOL

What I meant by that was that while you might understand English better by having studied and failed, the important thing is that you pass your test, not that you understand the subject.

I ALREADY COVERED THIS DUDE!!!11! OMG WTH LOL IF U HAD ACTUALY STUDEID WEL U AERNT GONG 2 FALE UR TEST!11!1!1 U AERNT GONG 2 PAS TEH TEST UNL3S U KNOW TEH ANSWERS AND/OR UNDERSTAND DA SUBJACT (UNLES U GAT CRAZY-LUKY AT GU3SNG BUT LATS B SERIOS FOR A MOMANT)!11!!!!! LOL PLZ TAEK DA TIEM 2 AXPLANE HOW I CAN GET AWAY WIT PASNG TESTS WITHOUT UND3RSTANDNG TEH SUBJACT BNG TEST3D B/C BOY M I MISNG OUT!111! OMG IVE BAN DONG IT TEH HARD WAY AL ALONG!1!1!1!

And this 'change of pace' - is it my fault for typing in chatspeak, or yours for typing proper English? The transition is sort of like having people with different accents in the room - generally it doesn't cause problems. While I can't speak like an Englishman/ southerner/ Scot/ Irishman/Canadian/Jamaican/Australian/ etc, I can understand what they're saying. You shouldn't be expected to learn how to type in chatspeak, but you should be expected to understand others if they so choose.

ITS UR FAULT B/C UR IN DA MINORITY!!!1!! OMG LOL IF EVARYONE SI DONG SOMETHNG ONE WAY AND THEN U D3CIEDD 2 DO IT A DIFER3NT WAY AND IT CAUESS INCONVENEINC3 (NO MATER HOW SMAL) FOR TEH OTH3R PEOPL3 HOW SI IT NOT UR FAULT
ALSO????!? OMG I DONT THINK COMPARNG ACENTS 2 CHATSP3AK SI FARE!1!!!! OMG IN R3AL LIEF USNG UR 3ARS AND BRANE IT TAEKS MUCH LES EFORT 2 UNDARSTAND SOMETHNG THAN HAVNG 2 D3CIPHER IT BY R3ADNG RAGARDL3S WHETH3R OR NOT UR RAADNG CHATSP3AK OR PROPER ENGLISH!!!!! OMG LOL I WUD WAEGR TAHT DA AEVRAEG P3RSON RAADS SLOWER THAN THAY HEAR!11!!

Once again, many people don't like using cursive and I'm fine with that. You shouldn't be required to write in cursive; but to understand when others do so is crucial. So I don't think why people don't use cursive is important, simply that the option is[/]i available to those who want it. Same with chatspeak - it isn't a standard at all. There is far from a standardized version of chatspeak - it comes in all sorts of varieties. The important thing is that a rational human being with at least moderate exposure to technology can understand it. Remember, the English language isn't standardized either - words are invented all the time.

PLZ 3XCUES MAH IGNORANCE!111!1111 OMG I THOUGHT TAHT WH3N EVERYON3 DID SOM3THNG DA SME WAY IT WAS DA ACEPT3D STANDARD!!!!!1 CLAARLEY THES SI NOT TEH CAES!!!111! OMG MAH MISTAEK
IMM!1!!!!11! OMG WTH NOT SAYNG TAHT THEIR SI A STANDARDIEZD V3RSION OF CHATSPEAK BUT TAHT IT SI STANDARD 2 OMIT L3TERS AND PUNCTUATION IN CERTANE SITUATIONS!!11111 OMG LOL NITPIK LES PLZ!1!!1! LOL I CANT AV3N COUNT3R UR ARGUMENT TAHT ANGLISH SI A STANDARDIEZD LANGUAEG B/C TAHTS NOT AVEN TEH POINT I WAS TRYNG 2 MAEK
IN!1!!1!! OMG LOL A NON-FORMAL SETNG WH3RE TIEM SI NOT OF UTMOST IMPORTANC3 (LIEK THES FORUM FOR AXMPLE) DA AC3PTAD STANDARD SI 2 WRIET IN 3NGLISH WHIEL MAKNG AS FEW MISTAEKS AS POSIBLA!1!1!1!11 OMG THES SI HOW TEH MAJORITY OF P3OPLA IN THES SETNG AGRE 2 DO IT!!1!! LOL TAHTS WUT MAEKS IT TEH STANDARD
IN!!1111 A NON-FORMAL SETNG WH3R3 TIEM IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANC3 (T3XTNG INSTANT MESAGNG ETC)!!!!!!1!1 LOL TEH ONLY THNG TAHT MAT3RS SI G3TNG UR MESAEG ACROS AS QUIKLEY AND CONCIESLEY AS POSIBLA!11!1!1 OMG WTH LOL THES SI HOW TEH MAJORITY OF P3OPL3 IN THES S3TNG AGRE 2 DO IT!11!1!! TAHTS WUT MAEKS IT TEH STANDARD
IN!!!!!11! OMG A FORMAL S3TNG AL RULAS R 2 B FOLOW3D AND MISTAEKS R UNACEPTABL3!!1!1!! PERIOD!11!11!11 OMG LOL

If everyone else is fluent in your language, go ahead! Chances are, you can convey your idea much more precisely in your language, and people hearing your speech can understand its meaning. When expressing a complex idea, one needs a language with which they are very familiar. When interpreting a complex idea, you don't need as much of an understanding of the language to know what they mean.

TAHTS NOT WUT I M3ANT!111! OMG WUT I MEANT WAS IT MAY SAEV U TIEM AND 3FORT 2 SP3AK/WRIET IN A WAY TAHT SI EASEIST FOR U BUT U MAY ALSO B CAUSNG INCONV3NEINC3 FOR TEH LISTENER
!!!!!!!1 LOL

Exactly, exactly, exactly! I was waiting for you to say that. Responding to someone on a Pokémon forum is pretty low on most people's lists of priorities. Thus, why should they put the effort into typing sound English?

SO TAHT SOMEONE 3LSA WIL ACTUALY RAAD THEYRE MESAEG??!!!! LOL

Willful ignorance is a common theme, but really - that's like the guy who only hears one side of the argument (you're a republican/ democrat, so you can't be reasonable). Ignore their words if you want, but I don't think that they should change their ways to cater to English-language enthusiasts.

I DONT THINK I SHUD HAEV 2 RAAD ANY POST TAHT I DONT WANT 2 FOR WUT REASON!1!!1!!! OMG LOL I DONT LIEK TEH WAY U TYPED IT OUT?!!?!?? WEL I WONT READ IT!!111!!1 OMG 2 LONG FOR MAH ATENTION SPAN AT TEH MOMENT??????? O W3L!!1!1! LOL ETC!11!!!! ATC!!1!!1!!! OMG LOL
I MIGHT PUT UP WIT IT IF ITS NOT 2 BAD BUT IF UR GONG 2 COMPLATELEY DISR3GARD EV3RY RULE OF GRMMAR AND SPELNG IMM JUST NOT GONG 2 D3AL WIT TAHT!!11!! OMG LOL SORY
!!!1!1

Sure, but there is no 'difference'. That's like saying 'that zebra is black, not white'. They find their way into chatspeak very easily. Although, I will concede posts like 'i liek teh peekachewz1111111' are usually done in jest by those who look down on chatspeak.

WUT DO U MEAN THEYRE SI NO DIFERENCE???!!!?!! OMG SHORTHAND SI SIMPLEY OMITNG CARTANE THNGS WHEN WRITNG/TYPNG 2 MAEK DA PROCES FOR FASTAR!11!111!1 OMG WTH H3RA?!11!11 LOL SI DA DEFINITION FOR M3MA!!111!! LOL THEY R COMPLATELEY UNR3LAETD THNGS!!1!11! WHETHER PAOPLE WHO R3GULARLEY UES CHATSPEAK ALSO UES M3MES OR NOT SI COMPLET3LEY IRALAVANT 2 THES DISCUSION!!!1! OMG WTH LOL PEOPLE WHO UES CHATSPEAK AND P3OPL3 WHO DONT BOTH UES MAMES
!1!1! OMG LOL

There is a limit to what is practical and what isn't. As I have noted, the only requirement should be that reasonable people who have been exposed to technology can understand it. I'm not really concerned with whether or not their eyes bleed.

UR RILLY NOT CONCARN3D HUH?!!!?!!!? PUNCTUATION SI UESD 2 H3LP MAEK THNGS AASEIR 2 R3AD!!11! LOL IF U COMPL3TELEY DISRAGARD PUNCTUATION IN UR POST RAGARDL3S OF WHETHAR U UES CHATSP3AK OR NOT U R WRITNG SOMATHNG TAHT WIL B HARD 2 R3AD!111!!1! OMG WTH LOL HARD 2 R3AD DOESNT MEAN ABSOLUTELEY ILAGIBL3 IT JUST MEANS HARD 2 R3AD!!!1!!1 LOL IMM NOT GONG 2 R3AD SOMATHNG TAHTS HARD 2 RAAD WHEN THEIR R 3ASEIR 2 R3AD POSTS WATENG FOR ME

toxictaipan: Notice the last sentence of your initial post. You are certainly insinuating that chatspeak is illegible, so I responded the way I did. I don't think that was a mis-interpretation of your post; if you were not insinuating that chatspeak is illegible, then your point makes no sense because we might as well type in chatspeak.

THE!1!!!1 LOL THNG SI TAHT P3OPLE WHO REGULARLEY UES CHATSPEAK R LOKNG FOR OTH3R WAYS BSIEDS OMITNG/CHANGNG LATERS IN CARTANE WORDS 2 SHORTEN THERE MESAEGS AND TEH FIRST PLAEC THEY G3N3RALY LOK 2 SI PUNCTUATION!111!!!1! WTH ITS NOT CHATSPEAK ON ITS OWN TAHT SI SO BAD BUT RATHAR DA COMBINATION OF MANY ANOYNG TYPNG TRATES!1!1!1! OMG LOL U BT IMA G3T MAD AT U WHEN U WRIET SOM3THNG TAHT SI HARD 2 RAAD WH3N W3 HAEV THNGS IN PLAEC SPACIFICALY 2 PRAVENT SUCH AN OCUR3NCA
!!1!! OMG

My impression upon reading this post is that you are both stuck-up snobs. If I didn't know better, that's the perception of you that I'd carry away with me. I merely think that modern society encourages enmity towards users of chatspeak. I do think people should type out posts to the extent that they can be understood, but unless you can't name letters and numerals, my example should suffice. Placing end punctuation after a sentence and also capitalizing the next letter is unnecessary; the punctuation should suffice. Using 1 in place of ! (which has become slightly memetic) is more efficient because you don't have to press shift. Typing out 'you' when there is a letter read the exact same way is yet another unnecessary element of the language.

MAH IMPR3SION UPON R3ADNG A POST TAHT COMPLATELEY DISR3GARDS PUNCTUATION AND UESS EXTENSIEV CHATSPEAK SI TAHT DA P3RSON WHO WROTE IT SI EITHER LAZY OR INCAPABLE OF USNG PROPER ANGLISH!11!1!1! IF I DIDNT KNOW BTER TAHTS DA PERCEPTION OF U TAHT ID CARY AWAY WIT M3
SE!!!11 OMG LOL HOW EASY TAHT WAS?!!??!??! IMM PRATY SURA I ALR3ADY MAED TAHT POINT 3ARLEIR.
!1!!!!!1!!111!11111 OMG

While I'll agree that how someone types on the internet is not an accurate way to measure their overall intelligence, when it's all you have to go on, its what you have to use. It's about how you choose to present yourself. I choose to take the time and try to present myself in the best way possible, and if you don't, you will be treated as such. It is not hard to type out a full sentence in English. If you want to take the time to type out something else to prove your intelligence to me, go ahead. But I have my doubts that you will since you're too laz- Oh, excuse me! I mean, "you don't have time," to even type out a full sentence in English.

USNG MAH OWN ARGUMANT AGANEST M3??!!?? WTH NIEC
O!1!!!!!!1 OMG WTH SO U GET 2 HAEV TEH IMPR3SION OF M3 BNG A SNOB3RY STUK-UP B/C I DONT SUPORT CHATSP3AK WHAN IT SI UNED3D BUT I CANT HAEV TEH IMPRESION TAHT UR LAZY/INCAPABLA OF USNG PROP3R 3NGLISH WHEN U ONLEY TYPE IN CHATSPEAK 3VEN WHEN ITS UN3CESARY?!!!?!! LOL U CAN HAEV A N3GATIEV IMPR3SION OF MA BAESD ON UR BLEIFS BUT I CANT HAEV A NEGATIEV IMPRESION OF U BAESD ON MAH BLEIFS!1111 OMG LOL WANT 2 CONTRADICT U SOM3 MORE OR SI TAHT 3NOUGH
?!!!? LOL

-----------------
Translation for normal people per 'Gym rules:

No. In my experience, it's quicker to think out a sentence before you begin typing (though I often amend my sentence a little as I go along). However, I can do this in chatspeak; I don't understand why this is a point in the favor of correct grammar. Yes, think out your sentences, but also type them in chatspeak. If you think out a grammatically correct sentence and then think out a sentence and type it in chatspeak, it doesn't somehow help the case of grammatical correctness.

Can you not comprehend what you read, child? It's not a point in favor of correct grammar. You say that "chatspeak" is superior to formal English basically because less characters to type = typing less = less time typing. While this is true, I'm trying to say that there are more variables involved than just the number of characters you input. If you were to eliminate all other variables, then yes, "chatspeak" is faster to type than formal English. You're saying "chatspeak" is faster, I'm saying, "Not necessarily." There are far too many other variables involved. I am personally not used to typing in "chatspeak" and so I am much slower at it than typing out full sentences, even though my words contain many more letters than their abbreviated versions.

I understand this; however, if you continually practice doing something wrong, it is worse than no practice at all. For example, in this sentence you used 'less' to describe the word 'mistakes'. The word you're looking for is 'fewer', as 'less' does not modify countable nouns. Now, I'm sure you've unknowingly practiced it this way several times, which could only have strengthened this bad habit. Had I not corrected you, you would only have been intensifying your habit of making this grammatical mistake. If your English skills start off perfect, then this is a good way of maintaining them; if not, you might be digging a deeper hole for yourself without peers to correct you.

Perhaps it's because I spent a good part of my time online as a grammar Nazi who belittled chatspeak users, that now I notice these little nuances of grammar. However, if you don't care about good grammar, but you want to get your point across, 'less' works fine. Just like 'ppl' over 'people.'

I used to see it your way, but I don't anymore. Why? Because when you think about it, thinking less of someone based on how much dedication they put into their post is ridiculous (and usually just an excuse to look down on someone).

Did I seriously just read what I think I read? That's a good point that I was expecting you to use. I understand that reinforcing bad habits only strengthens them. However, if you're implying that continuously repeating just a few mistakes while still practicing mostly correct grammar is actually worse for you than not practicing at all (which will only cause you to forget stuff that you know is correct) I can only conclude that you must be trollin'. I basically read that as, "Don't practice at all if you're going to make any mistakes whatsoever. You will only do more harm than good by repeating a small number of mistakes while otherwise typing properly."

I personally rather have an Achilles’ heel or two than no legs to walk on at all, but hey, that's just me. Also, this:

Not to mention, you just repeated his point: practicing something wrong is worse than no practice (read: practicing it wrong is really, really bad). Typing in chatspeak constantly = practicing English WRONG.

Look, dude. I don't think less of someone because of the way they type, and I'm not a grammar Nazi. I don't mind a few little mistakes here and there. No one is perfect. I can read "chatspeak" and I can type it (albeit slowly). That doesn't mean I have to like it, and that does not mean that it is appropriate for all situations.

What I meant by that was that while you might understand English better by having studied and failed, the important thing is that you pass your test, not that you understand the subject.

I already covered this, dude. If you had actually studied well, you aren't going to fail your test. You aren't going to pass the test unless you know the answers and/or understand the subject (unless you get crazy-lucky at guessing, but let's be serious for a moment). Please take the time to explain how I can get away with passing tests without understanding the subject being tested, because boy, am I missing out! I've been doing it the hard way all along.

And this 'change of pace' - is it my fault for typing in chatspeak, or yours for typing proper English? The transition is sort of like having people with different accents in the room - generally it doesn't cause problems. While I can't speak like an Englishman/ southerner/ Scot/ Irishman/Canadian/Jamaican/Australian/ etc, I can understand what they're saying. You shouldn't be expected to learn how to type in chatspeak, but you should be expected to understand others if they so choose.

It's your fault because you're in the minority. If everyone is doing something one way and then you decided to do it a different way, and it causes inconvenience (no matter how small) for the other people, how is it NOT your fault?

Also, I don't think comparing accents to "chatspeak" is fair. In real life, using your ears and brain, it takes much less effort to understand something than having to decipher it by reading, regardless whether or not you're reading "chatspeak" or proper English. I would wager that the average person reads slower than they hear.

Once again, many people don't like using cursive and I'm fine with that. You shouldn't be required to write in cursive; but to understand when others do so is crucial. So I don't think why people don't use cursive is important, simply that the option is[/]i available to those who want it. Same with chatspeak - it isn't a standard at all. There is far from a standardized version of chatspeak - it comes in all sorts of varieties. The important thing is that a rational human being with at least moderate exposure to technology can understand it. Remember, the English language isn't standardized either - words are invented all the time.

Please excuse my ignorance. I thought that when everyone did something the same way, it was the accepted standard. Clearly, this is not the case. My mistake.

I'm not saying that there is a standardized version of "chatspeak," but that it is standard to omit letters and punctuation in certain situations. Nitpick less, please. I can't even counter your argument that English is a standardized language because that's not even the point I was trying to make.

In a non-formal setting where time is not of utmost importance (like this forum, for example), the accepted standard is to write in English while making as few mistakes as possible. This is how the majority of people in this setting agree to do it. That's what makes it the standard.

In a non-formal setting where time is of utmost importance (texting, instant messaging, etc.), the only thing that matters is getting your message across as quickly and concisely as possible. This is how the majority of people in this setting agree to do it. That's what makes it the standard.

In a formal setting, all rules are to be followed and mistakes are unacceptable. Period.

If everyone else is fluent in your language, go ahead! Chances are, you can convey your idea much more precisely in your language, and people hearing your speech can understand its meaning. When expressing a complex idea, one needs a language with which they are very familiar. When interpreting a complex idea, you don't need as much of an understanding of the language to know what they mean.

That's not what I meant. What I meant was, it may save you time and effort to speak/write in a way that is easiest for you, but you may also be causing inconvenience for the listener.

Exactly, exactly, exactly! I was waiting for you to say that. Responding to someone on a Pokémon forum is pretty low on most people's lists of priorities. Thus, why should they put the effort into typing sound English?

So that someone else will actually read their message?

Willful ignorance is a common theme, but really - that's like the guy who only hears one side of the argument (you're a republican/ democrat, so you can't be reasonable). Ignore their words if you want, but I don't think that they should change their ways to cater to English-language enthusiasts.

I don't think I should have to read any post that I don't want to, for whatever reason. I don't like the way you typed it out? Well, I won't read it. Too long for my attention span at the moment? Oh well. Etc., etc.

I might put up with it if it's not too bad, but if you're going to completely disregard every rule of grammar and spelling, I'm just not going to deal with that. Sorry.

Sure, but there is no 'difference'. That's like saying 'that zebra is black, not white'. They find their way into chatspeak very easily. Although, I will concede posts like 'i liek teh peekachewz1111111' are usually done in jest by those who look down on chatspeak.

What do you mean there is no difference? Shorthand is simply omitting certain things when writing/typing to make the process for faster. Here is the definition for, "meme." They are completely unrelated things. Whether people who regularly use "chatspeak" also use memes or not is completely irrelevant to this discussion. People who use "chatspeak" and people who don't both use memes.

There is a limit to what is practical and what isn't. As I have noted, the only requirement should be that reasonable people who have been exposed to technology can understand it. I'm not really concerned with whether or not their eyes bleed.

You're really not concerned, huh? Punctuation is used to help make things easier to read. If you completely disregard punctuation in your post, regardless of whether you use "chatspeak" or not, you are writing something that will be hard to read. Hard to read doesn't mean absolutely illegible, it just means hard to read. I'm not going to read something that's hard to read when there are easier to read posts waiting for me.

toxictaipan: Notice the last sentence of your initial post. You are certainly insinuating that chatspeak is illegible, so I responded the way I did. I don't think that was a mis-interpretation of your post; if you were not insinuating that chatspeak is illegible, then your point makes no sense because we might as well type in chatspeak.

The thing is that people who regularly use "chatspeak" are looking for other ways besides omitting/changing letters in certain words to shorten their messages, and the first place they generally look to is punctuation. It's not "chatspeak" on it's own that is so bad, but rather the combination of many annoying typing traits. You bet I'm going to get mad at you when you write something that is hard to read when we have things in place specifically to prevent such an occurrence.

My impression upon reading this post is that you are both stuck-up snobs. If I didn't know better, that's the perception of you that I'd carry away with me. I merely think that modern society encourages enmity towards users of chatspeak. I do think people should type out posts to the extent that they can be understood, but unless you can't name letters and numerals, my example should suffice. Placing end punctuation after a sentence and also capitalizing the next letter is unnecessary; the punctuation should suffice. Using 1 in place of ! (which has become slightly memetic) is more efficient because you don't have to press shift. Typing out 'you' when there is a letter read the exact same way is yet another unnecessary element of the language.

My impression upon reading a post that completely disregards punctuation and uses extensive "chatspeak" is that the person who wrote it is either lazy or incapable of using proper English. If I didn't know better, that's the perception of you that I'd carry away with me.

See how easy that was? I'm pretty sure I already made that point earlier...

While I'll agree that how someone types on the internet is not an accurate way to measure their overall intelligence, when it's all you have to go on, its what you have to use. It's about how you choose to present yourself. I choose to take the time and try to present myself in the best way possible, and if you don't, you will be treated as such. It is not hard to type out a full sentence in English. If you want to take the time to type out something else to prove your intelligence to me, go ahead. But I have my doubts that you will since you're too laz- Oh, excuse me! I mean, "you don't have time," to even type out a full sentence in English.

Using my own argument against me? Nice.

Oh, so you get to have the impression of me being a snobbery stuck-up because I don't support "chatspeak" when it is unneeded, but I can't have the impression that you're lazy/incapable of using proper English when you only type in "chatspeak," even when it's unnecessary? You can have a negative impression of me based on your beliefs but I can't have a negative impression of you based on my beliefs. Want to contradict yourself some more, or is that enough?

 

[NoPoke]

*shrug*

know the audience.
The audience will include people you have probably not considered. (Non-native language users)
write to be read
write to be understood

====
Lots of little mistakes in the above: lack of capitals, full stops, each sentence on a new line, incorrect use of parenthesis. Do those errors obscure meaning, or do those errors emphasise what I'm trying to communicate?

 

[Blitzer]

AOCDRNDICG TO RSCHEEARCH AT CMABRIGDE UINERVTISY, IT DSENO'T MTAETR WAHT OERDR THE LTTERES IN A WROD ARE, THE OLNY IPROAMTNT TIHNG IS TAHT THE FRSIT AND LSAT LTTEER BE IN THE RGHIT PCLAE. TIHS IS BCUSEAE THE HUAMN MNID DEOS NOT RAED ERVEY LTETER BY ISTLEF, BUT THE WROD AS A WLOHE.



But Seriously, I agree with Box of Fails points more than I agree with the aforementioned statements from toxi and Kayle. This is a forum, NOT a college essay where grammar is important. I'm not saying that writing using good grammar is bad, I'm simply saying not necessary on a POKEMON FORUM

 

[baby mario]

The people who own the forum get to decide what is necessary when it comes to grammar.

Which is exactly how it works with College essays too.

It's not you deciding what is appropriate, it's you conforming to what is expected of you by the people in charge.

Whether or not you agree with the standards they set is beside the point.

 

[waynegg]

*shrug*

know the audience.
The audience will include people you have probably not considered. (Non-native language users)
write to be read
write to be understood

====
Lots of little mistakes in the above: lack of capitals, full stops, each sentence on a new line, incorrect use of parenthesis. Do those errors obscure meaning, or do those errors emphasise what I'm trying to communicate?

Or lead our society in the gradual "dumbing down" which is foretold in the movie Idiocracy.

 

[Kayle]

This is a forum, NOT a college essay where grammar is important.

I would consider Pokegym about on level with a League or tournament. Sure, you can go to those places without showering and dressed like a slob, but everyone's going to be disgusted with you!

So you show up to League looking like a slob because it's not important, it's just league right?

come at me bro!

 

[Mama_Luigi]

AOCDRNDICG TO RSCHEEARCH AT CMABRIGDE UINERVTISY, IT DSENO'T MTAETR WAHT OERDR THE LTTERES IN A WROD ARE, THE OLNY IPROAMTNT TIHNG IS TAHT THE FRSIT AND LSAT LTTEER BE IN THE RGHIT PCLAE. TIHS IS BCUSEAE THE HUAMN MNID DEOS NOT RAED ERVEY LTETER BY ISTLEF, BUT THE WROD AS A WLOHE.



But Seriously, I agree with Box of Fails points more than I agree with the aforementioned statements from toxi and Kayle. This is a forum, NOT a college essay where grammar is important. I'm not saying that writing using good grammar is bad, I'm simply saying not necessary on a POKEMON FORUM

I can only read a little bit of that

 

[Haunter_FanBoy]

AOCDRNDICG TO RSCHEEARCH AT CMABRIGDE UINERVTISY, IT DSENO'T MTAETR WAHT OERDR THE LTTERES IN A WROD ARE, THE OLNY IPROAMTNT TIHNG IS TAHT THE FRSIT AND LSAT LTTEER BE IN THE RGHIT PCLAE. TIHS IS BCUSEAE THE HUAMN MNID DEOS NOT RAED ERVEY LTETER BY ISTLEF, BUT THE WROD AS A WLOHE.



But Seriously, I agree with Box of Fails points more than I agree with the aforementioned statements from toxi and Kayle. This is a forum, NOT a college essay where grammar is important. I'm not saying that writing using good grammar is bad, I'm simply saying not necessary on a POKEMON FORUM

'cept when you got dyslexia.

 

[GameStoreGrump]

AOCDRNDICG TO RSCHEEARCH AT CMABRIGDE UINERVTISY, IT DSENO'T MTAETR WAHT OERDR THE LTTERES IN A WROD ARE, THE OLNY IPROAMTNT TIHNG IS TAHT THE FRSIT AND LSAT LTTEER BE IN THE RGHIT PCLAE. TIHS IS BCUSEAE THE HUAMN MNID DEOS NOT RAED ERVEY LTETER BY ISTLEF, BUT THE WROD AS A WLOHE.

Really a moot point in this debate because the discussion is more based on abbreviation and letter replacement rather than letter arrangement.

 

[waynegg]

For Mama_Luigi:

ACCORDING TO RESEARCH AT CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT ORDER LETTERS IN A WORD ARE, THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THAT THE FIRST AND LAST LETTER BE IN THE RIGHT PLACE. THIS IS BECAUSE THE HUMAN MIND DOES NOT READ EVERY LETTER BY ITSELF, BUT THE WORD AS A WHOLE.

 

[nnaann]

Really a moot point in this debate because the discussion is more based on abbreviation and letter replacement rather than letter arrangement.

I think it's kind of nice to take a less serious stance on this topic. I can't believe that a thread about typing in good grammar is getting bigger responses then the hunting, home schooling and religious threads we've had before!

 

[Kayle]

I think it's kind of nice to take a less serious stance on this topic. I can't believe that a thread about typing in good grammar is getting bigger responses then the hunting, home schooling and religious threads we've had before!

It's because BOFF is an epic troll.

 

[Blitzer]

So you show up to League looking like a slob because it's not important, it's just league right?

come at me bro!

I'm not saying that writing using good grammar is bad, I'm simply saying not necessary on a POKEMON FORUM

Bolded

seventeen

and in reply to my crazy illiterate paragraph,
I just posted that to lighten up the mood and I found it on FB and it had a small bit of relevance so I was like OMGARZ AWESOME!!

 

[toxictaipan]

BoFF: I know you haven't given up on our debate after I took the time to translate all of that into "chatspeak" for you, have you? I'm sure you would have had enough time to type up a reply by now... If you're short on time, I don't mind getting a reply back in "chatspeak" if you need to save time.

 

[TheKing]

This must be the only forum I've been to that can get into a heated debate over things like is god real, homeschooling, and typing chatspeak. Personally, I don't mind chatspeak as long as I can still read it

 

[toxictaipan]

This must be the only forum I've been to that can get into a heated debate over things like is god real, homeschooling, and typing chatspeak. Personally, I don't mind chatspeak as long as I can still read it

This must be the only forum you've ever seen.