Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Where in the world is LostGar?

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JandPDS

JandPDS

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Everyone was so worried that Lost World stadium would lead to 50% of the decks being Lostgar, but last weekend it turned out to ne much adu about nothing. I played an 8 round state Championship and did not see it, I heard that two players top cut with it and one make T4, but still it was supposed to be everywhere but it was really just hype and nothing else.

I was so gald that I decided to not tech my deck against it. I just played it stright up and it worked well. I was a little bit woried my last match when I saw my oppenet play down a Gastly, but it turned out he was just playing Vilegar and I was able to relax.

So will lost worlds ever have any impact or were we all concerned over nothing?
 
Um, were you not one of the people that hyped Lost World?

I think that one thread changed so many people's opinions. Both to and from Lostgar.

In the end, Lostgar was NOTHING like it was hyped to be. It did better than I originally gave it credit for, but it certainly fell short.
 
As is the case for most decks, Lostgar has no "definitive" list yet. Since this is the first tournament that it was available for the early use of it will be limited to those that test with it and work out the kinks. If during that testing those players find any major flaws or weaknesses in the deck then they will generally go back to what they are comfortable with playing for a large tournament like States. I have a feeling if Lost World would have been released before the CC season it's usage would be much higher than it currently is, since players are more open to trying something new during that period.

Honestly I don't expect Lost World to significantly impact tournament play until possibly Regionals at the earliest or Nationals once people have ample time to work out the best way to use it.
 
Darkwalker said:
As is the case for most decks, Lostgar has no "definitive" list yet. Since this is the first tournament that it was available for the early use of it will be limited to those that test with it and work out the kinks. If during that testing those players find any major flaws or weaknesses in the deck then they will generally go back to what they are comfortable with playing for a large tournament like States. I have a feeling if Lost World would have been released before the CC season it's usage would be much higher than it currently is, since players are more open to trying something new during that period.

Honestly I don't expect Lost World to significantly impact tournament play until possibly Regionals at the earliest or Nationals once people have ample time to work out the best way to use it.
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The very first tournament that SP could be played at - States '09 - featured a flood of SP decks, mostly SP Toolbox and Palkia G/Dialga G based concepts. After everything was accounted for, it looks like almost half the top 4 decks for all States were SP-based. Here's the thread.

LostGar isn't even close to matching this level of dominance over the format. Plus, people were playtesting with LostGar before Triumphant came out, which was before City Championships. Of course, Lost World got held over, but I think that by now people should have worked out the kinks to LostGar considering they've had months to do so.

The only surprise with LostGar has been the addition of Vileplume to the deck, which is wildly different than how Japan played LostGar. And even though it won my States (North Carolina), it's nowhere near as "broken" as people thought it would be.
 
It's partly that people haven't really found a list that works in our format yet.

It's partly that people haven't learned how to play with the deck properly yet.

It's partly that people have spent lots of time thinking about how to combat the deck.

And it's partly that people are just so used to running fast decks like SP and Gyarados that they are either unwilling to try out a deck that runs differently or those that are using it aren't quite used to the way the deck handles yet.

Keep in mind that it's taken 2nd at a tournament of triple digit attendance already (ECC), and it's won at least a couple of NA SPTs in the Ma division so far. I see 4 Gengar decks that have won SPTs with 20 out of 23 or 24 States reporting. I don't know the builds there, but it's quite easy to see some hybrid versions winning where a pure version couldn't.
 
bullados said:
It's partly that people haven't really found a list that works in our format yet.

It's partly that people haven't learned how to play with the deck properly yet.

It's partly that people have spent lots of time thinking about how to combat the deck.

And it's partly that people are just so used to running fast decks like SP and Gyarados that they are either unwilling to try out a deck that runs differently or those that are using it aren't quite used to the way the deck handles yet.

Keep in mind that it's taken 2nd at a tournament of triple digit attendance already (ECC), and it's won at least a couple of NA SPTs in the Ma division so far. I see 4 Gengar decks that have won SPTs with 20 out of 23 or 24 States reporting. I don't know the builds there, but it's quite easy to see some hybrid versions winning where a pure version couldn't.
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I don't see where LostGar has won 2 or more NA SPTs in the Masters. I only see where it won NC States so far. Vileplume/Gengar (more commonly known as "VileGar") is not LostGar. You're right in that those Gengar builds might have some teching going on, but if the main emphasis was on Gengar Prime and Lost World, I figure that's how it would be reported.

I don't think the discussion here is about whether or not LostGar is a valid deck - it certainly is. Placing 2nd in a huge tournament like the ECC is an enormous accomplishment, and it definitely shows the potential of Gengar Prime and Lost World. However, a lot of people went into SPTs with the expectation that Lost World was going to break the game. People were talking about how unbelievably broken LostGar was and blah blah blah. We had so many threads on the subject that some were locked. People threatened to quit the game. Power went out for days. Massive hysteria ensued. The earth trembled.

And then... nothing. I mean, just look at that '09 SPTs thread I linked to in my other post. Almost 50% of the decks to make it into the top 4 were SP-based. If you think about it, that's pretty crazy. LostGar, by comparison, simply did not live up to the hype.
 
Remember, you can't spell stupid without SP. ;)

The way I see it, if a powerhouse (flimsy or not) like Jumpluff can't do well in the current format, any other stage 2 must bring an awful lot to the table in order to even compete with SP decks.
 
Erik, I play a version of VileGar that runs 1 Gengar Prime and 1 Lost World. Thus far, I have won 4 games via Lost World (one Gengar, two Dialgas, one Lux), once via prizeout, and lost once via donk (Lux). And these aren't bad players I'm going against. Guys who fairly consistently top cut at States level events and higher. I'm not a particularly great player either, I made massive misplays in almost all of those games. Would you call my deck VileGar? LostGar? I'm just calling it Hybrid for the moment, though EuroGar would also be an appropriate name.

What I'm suggesting is that there are far more shades of gray in the Gengar world than many people might think there are. Just like there are many shades of gray in the SP world.
 
bullados said:
Erik, I play a version of VileGar that runs 1 Gengar Prime and 1 Lost World. Thus far, I have won 4 games via Lost World (one Gengar, two Dialgas, one Lux), once via prizeout, and lost once via donk (Lux). And these aren't bad players I'm going against. Guys who fairly consistently top cut at States level events and higher. I'm not a particularly great player either, I made massive misplays in almost all of those games. Would you call my deck VileGar? LostGar? I'm just calling it Hybrid for the moment, though EuroGar would also be an appropriate name.

What I'm suggesting is that there are far more shades of gray in the Gengar world than many people might think there are. Just like there are many shades of gray in the SP world.
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Yeah, you're right about the "hybrid" factor for VileGar. I've seen (and heard) many people teching in singles of Gengar Prime and Lost World into their VileGar, just in case the win occurs that way. Also, I think "EuroGar" is fairly appropriate for Vileplume-based LostGar decks, if only because not enough people give the Europeans credit for the creativity they bring to this game.

I do, however, want to point out that there's a world of difference between the Vileplume-based LostGars and the "speed" LostGars (like the kind Aaron Curry placed in the top 4 with). Many people thought of speedy builds when they thought of LostGar. I don't even think anybody suggested LostGar/Vileplume before it was played in Europe. And I'm still interested in whether or not the "Gengar/Vileplume" decks that won the NA SPT's actually had the Gengar Prime/Lost World combo going on.

All of that aside, LostGar didn't break the format. It didn't flood SPTs like SP decks did back then. It's just another deck in a pretty boring format to me.
 
On that point, Erik, we're in agreement. What was initially thought of as "LostGar" has not broken the format. Not even close. However, this Hybrid idea I think has legs, and if it were played in the same concentrations as even a DialgaChomp, I think it has the ability to take State Championships on the same level as said deck.
 
eriknance said:
Yeah, you're right about the "hybrid" factor for VileGar. I've seen (and heard) many people teching in singles of Gengar Prime and Lost World into their VileGar, just in case the win occurs that way. Also, I think "EuroGar" is fairly appropriate for Vileplume-based LostGar decks, if only because not enough people give the Europeans credit for the creativity they bring to this game.

I do, however, want to point out that there's a world of difference between the Vileplume-based LostGars and the "speed" LostGars (like the kind Aaron Curry placed in the top 4 with). Many people thought of speedy builds when they thought of LostGar. I don't even think anybody suggested LostGar/Vileplume before it was played in Europe. And I'm still interested in whether or not the "Gengar/Vileplume" decks that won the NA SPT's actually had the Gengar Prime/Lost World combo going on.

All of that aside, LostGar didn't break the format. It didn't flood SPTs like SP decks did back then. It's just another deck in a pretty boring format to me.
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I had a Prime and a Lost world in my VileGar deck before I even heard of the ECC, maybe even before it was held. 3 players from my league took this idea and took 3 medals with the deck, including 2 states (N Car and KY).

Before anyone tries to say I "made" the deck, that is far from it. I think the creators saw many of these combos (and more) when they made the cards.

Keith
 
Lawman said:
I think the creators saw many of these combos (and more) when they made the cards.

Keith
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Finally somebody agrees with me >.< I think we have so many different flavors of Gengar because of their unique interactions between each other. Experimenting with Gengar is very interesting as we now have 4 good gengars (X, Prime, SF, CurseGar). They all interact with the other ones in very unique ways and can really be amazing when played with in tournaments.

The reason you guys are underwhelmed about LostGar is because it was hyped to be the format breaker. Unless we are all missing something, it is nowhere near the format breaker. It is another top deck, as I predicted, but it does not outright destroy the format like others claimed it to be. People are still working on amazing lists, but I feel we CAN judge it based on its performances at States. I think it will make its strides at Regionals where people will be more refined with it. I feel it may be able to win some more States and maybe a few regionals, but I would guess that LuxChomp and Gdos will also win a few tournaments too. The deck is just as successful as most good decks (Luxchomp still has the most wins >.<), so let's see how it grows and how it evolves.
 
Has anybody stopped to consider that the reason LostGar didn't make a bigger showing at States could be an economic one or even a choice of convenience. If someone already has all the expensive cards for their LuxChomp, which is a proven deck, then perhaps they simply couldn't justify spending the money on an unproven deck, especially when what they already have is working for them.

This in no way says that LostGar is just hype. It only means the format is still quite saturated in LuxChomp/SP. If you really want to evaluate the effectiveness then you have to set it up on a ratio like # of players playing SP :: # of tops vs. # of people playing LostGar :: # of tops. Just taking the raw results without that kind of comparison taken into consideration is pointless.

On a side note- Gengar and Lost World have dropped in price, so if you have wanted to try this deck out but couldn't before, now would be the time.
 
I would think that the reason we didn't see as many LostGar is because people weren't able to make a version that had good enough matchups across the board.

I don't see a few tweaking of cards between now and Regionals making a big difference.

And really, those who couldn't afford to get the LostGar stuff probably wouldn't be the top players people would be watching, right?
 
^ Not true. Just because someone had the money a couple of years ago BEFORE the economy tanked and everyone lost their jobs/had their pay cut does NOT mean they have the funds now. That's a really arrogant statement to be honest.
 
Personally, I'm not complaining. Thank God Gengar prime has gone down in price by ten; now I'll save a bunch of money buying for my collection.:smile:
 
waynegg said:
^ Not true. Just because someone had the money a couple of years ago BEFORE the economy tanked and everyone lost their jobs/had their pay cut does NOT mean they have the funds now. That's a really arrogant statement to be honest.
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That, or they haven't had the two years to trade for that Lux X they need.
 
Lostgar is sitting at the same bus stop where all the other overhyped decks of legend sit. Great in theory, can't swing it in reality.

Another stillborn victim of our current Mach 10 speed format. Maybe it will get its bus ticket back after Platinum and the SP engine rotates out.
 
look, let's face it, mime jr. just outclasses lostgar on every level. But people didn't play jr. either. Why spoil a nats/worlds class mime jr deck at states and have a lot of scrubs copy your list?
 
I am very happy its popularity hasn't taken off. I still don't like a win condition like this in pokemon but at any rate it seems the top decks can still contend with it like SP vielgar machamp ect..

I do think if it can't win now it will have even a harder time running with every deck running catcher.
 
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