New player with GF and 5 year old son!

[kurokun]

Good day! I apologize if this is not the correct board, but I am sure deck builders can help me ^^..

Quick background:
Me and my girl are longtime fans of the series; my kid is growing watching the old stuff (Im 29yold)

I wan tto build some decks that are good enough for a Veteran Magic Player and his girl and one for my kid.

The thing is I want to use the old ones, Pikachu, Bulbasaur, etc. Do I have to buy singles for all this? I tried navigating the theme decks, the expansions, but nothing makes sense to me.... what are the restrictions for tournaments?

Anyone that could explain this in Magic the Gathering terms?

Thanks!

 

[bullados]

Pokemon uses a rotational format, very similar to MtG's Type 2 format. Right now, the only sets that are legal for Premier Tournament play are those in the Black and White series blocks.

While there are many similarities between the games, there's quite a few differences as well. IIRC, Magic does a rolling rotation, while Pokemon does more of a random block rotation. Once a year, on or around September 1st, they'll rotate anywhere from 0 to 5 sets from the Modified (Type 2) format. Modified is the only competitive tournament format, though you can also play in Prereleases in the Sealed Pack format (6 packs, 40 card deck, GO!)

Anything else you need to know?

 

[kurokun]

=O

First thing:

Thank you! Such precise, concise, and useful info (not easy to find out anywhere!)

=)

Now...ok...so...mmmm....

So they randomly ban sets from Modified (T2)?

So they already did that I guess right?

So it would be safe to assume that getting black & white expansions, all is good?

The other expansions that are currently off from Modified, price drops dramatically?

Would it be safe to assume, that, for casual game play, it would be better (money wise) to buy from the other sets since they are not been playing like that?

How likely (in your experience, based on previous rotations) are the other sets meant to "return"?

Is there something like a Legacy sets? That are not used anymore?



Thanks!

 

[Swordfish1989]

Not randomly; they rotate out the oldest sets, though we don't know how many until they tell us. There was even a year with no rotation, so it's possible. This is something they announce in June-July, and becomes applicable for tournaments taking place after Worlds. Last year was an exception; they did the rotation BEFORE worlds because of problems in the format. No sets that have been rotated ever return. Some cards may get reprinted and thus you can use the older or new version, but no set ever gets un-rotated. Next year, for example, it's possible that they rotate out the 3 oldest legal sets (BW, EP, NV). But, like I said earlier, we don't know how many (or if any) sets they will rotate, but it's always the oldest.

My suggestion, even if you're playing casually, is to get the newest sets. Yes, BW-on will be around until next August, but heck, I'd get the sets with the EX Pokemon in them since those have a lot of very playable cards that will be allowed at least for another 2 years (this and next). The reason I recommend newer sets is just because you may decide you want to attend a tournament or a Battle Road, and if you do it would be easy if you already had all the legal cards.

 

[honchvire]

=O

First thing:

Thank you! Such precise, concise, and useful info (not easy to find out anywhere!)

=)

Now...ok...so...mmmm....

So they randomly ban sets from Modified (T2)?
They like to rotate around 4-6 sets, always the oldests

So they already did that I guess right?
Newest season began on September 1st

So it would be safe to assume that getting black & white expansions, all is good?
Current format includes Black and White, Emerging Powers, Noble Victories, Next Destinies, Dark Explorers and Dragons Exalted

The other expansions that are currently off from Modified, price drops dramatically?
Its all supply and demand. Most of the cards will not be in demand anymore so their price will drop. A few cards may hold their value for whatever reason. Packs and sealed product can actually increase in value since there is no longer any printings of those cards

Would it be safe to assume, that, for casual game play, it would be better (money wise) to buy from the other sets since they are not been playing like that?
Depends what you mean by casual. Do you just want to have a few decks to play with close friends and family? Do you care about quality? Do you want to start collecting?
The cheapest investment would be to buy a couple of pre-constructed theme decks and play that way. Pre-cons are around 10-12 dollars. You could also buy World Championship decks. They arent legal for official tournaments but they can give you an insight to what a top-level deck might look like.
I'd really suggest locating a league near you. They have all types of players, competitive and casual, and are a good place to make friends, trade cards and earn cool promos.

How likely (in your experience, based on previous rotations) are the other sets meant to "return"?
Not likely. There have been 4 times we've had a reprint set(correct me if I'm forgetting any). Base Set 2, Legendary Collection, Power Keepers and Call of Legends. In many cases, these sets did not correspond with any set released in Japan and many players complained about the reprints. Trainers, Supporters and Stadiums are more likely than Pokemon to be reprinted, though this trend may be ending as we are seeing many cards being released as with the same effects as old cards but with different names(Gust of Wind = Pokemon Catcher, Warp Point = Escape Rope, etc). I wouldn't hold your breath hoping that any old cards you might buy would come back in format.

Is there something like a Legacy sets? That are not used anymore?
Theres unlimited, but very few people actually play it. There has been a rise in interest in crafting alternate unlimited formats or extended formats(see 150, Palace, etc) but none of those are really mainstream yet. Also there is a growing group of players who like to play old formats, either with World Championship Decks or with cards they happen to still have lying around.


Thanks!

Responses in bold.

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

If you're just starting, buying from the newest Black & White sets is the best idea as you can use them in Modified (like Standard) as well as any other format you might try. If you just want to play with your GF and kid a couple of theme decks are ok. If you want to be competitive you'd be best buying the main Trainer cards as singles as a start then take it from there. Sealed isn't an actual format like MtG, it's only used for Prerelease and is pretty much ruined now with EXs (1 EX and 39 energy is a legit deck if you randomly pull one -_-).

Like Honchvire said, alternate formats are picking up popularity at the moment but none are used for official tournaments. Palace is an official format in Japan but it isn't used over here yet, it's like Extended/Modern using Diamond & Pearl onwards with a ban/restricted list.

Unlimited 150 is like EDH/Commander in that almost any card is legal in a 100 card singleton deck (see my sig. for links). I'm not too keen on Modified at the moment so I only play 150, if you have some old cards lying around you can use them in this and it's not too expensive to play as most old cards are dirt cheap.

 

[kurokun]

=_)

Thank you for taking the time to reply trainers!

Thanks for the MtG references. Helped a lot!

So, I think I got it clear-er. So then the safest bets would be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_Trading_Card_Game_sets

Then 2.4 The Fifth Generation Sets?

And for making old "theme" decks Like a Bulbasaur + Chikorita + Something? Are those cards still being reprinted?

Also, is there any site like magiccards.info? and/or liek starcitygames.com? What is the "official" price guide?
Again, thanks!

Also....another website you can recommend me with articles? Anything that you have favorite-d would be appreciate.

another question. About online codes. What are they? If I buy a theme deck, do I unlock it online?

Thanks!

EDIT: Found this http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Theme_Deck_(TCG) very helpful!

EDIT2: Found this site: pokeorder.com Pretty cool since it lists a lot of sigles. How should I proceed to make a deck and buy it online? Taking into consideration prices. A them deck is 10usd. But I don't like those pokemons! I want the old-school, so could anyone assist us creating some synergic decks that use the old pokemons (pikachu, squirtle, charizard, etc.) and create cohesive decks?

A team rocket deck (mew, koffin, arbor deck) or something like that? Trainer cards can be from the newest sets. Just the old pokemon.

Thanks again!

 

[Swordfish1989]

Everyone has their own system for figuring out prices, but Trollandtoad tends to be pretty good. Frankly, I can get cheaper cards from ebay most of the time so I'll always recommend that for buying singles.

Codes are for playing the game online. I don't play online so I can't elaborate much on it, but the codes do have $ value (though small).

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

Careful with direct outside links, they don't like that on here for some reason, I got shouted at a lot when I first joined! >_< As for a "Gatherer" type site, pkmncards.com is good for quick searches and pokepedia.net is for really detailed searches. If you're looking for articles I'd recommend sixprizes.com who have a variety of new articles on the front page every few days.

One of the best cards at the moment is an old Pokemon, Mewtwo EX is crazy strong and it's now available in a promo tin. The next English set has a new Blastoise and Charizard in it so perhaps you'd like those. There's not really much choice at the moment when it comes to picking Pokemon for a good deck as any Pokemon has to compete with the overpowered legendary Pokemon they're printing recently. If you don't care about tournaments there's no problem though. There's a Venusaur in Dark Explorers that has a decent Ability and Ninetales from Dragons Exalted is quite strong but is usually paired with the new mushroom Pokemon, Amoongus (Next Destinies).

If you want to buy some singles look at 3 or 4 each of Pokemon Catcher, N, Professor Juniper and Ultra Ball as a start.
Finally, the code cards are for the official online card game but there's not much point as you can use free programs like playtcg.me where all Modified cards are available from the start.

 

[kurokun]

=O

Thanks TRAINER HEZ (and all)

Will thread carefully with the DLinks

That "gatherer" site is pretty neat. =)

I've been going through the latest sets...those EX Pokemons are totally crazy. XP

Thanks for your time everyone, I think I have now a grasp of what I need to read/buy.

=)

 

[kurokun]

Hi! So...me again. ^^ I've been reading and searching and asking my kid what he wants to play. Boundaries Crossed just got out. I'm looking into investing 40-100usd.

Questions:

How do i get energy cards? friends/theme decks?

I was looking at the Serperion/Oshawoth pack that includes the theme deck+stuff. Reasonable play, or just mediore?

Should I go and buy all singles?

Or a Boundareis Crossed booster bos(Skylia!) or maybe the coldflames/icymagma theme decks? (j_k)

I ask, because I know, as a MtG player, I would have LOVED that someone had instructed me in the proper way to start the collection. Instead of buying a bunch of boosters and a theme deck Maybe Pokemon is different, I dont know.


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30065753.jpg

 

[Ace-]

Questions:

How do i get energy cards? friends/theme decks?

i think you ask your friends/league. I am sure you will find some players/friends who gave energies away for free.

I was looking at the Serperion/Oshawoth pack that includes the theme deck+stuff. Reasonable play, or just mediore?

i dont know it but i think there are better alternatives

Should I go and buy all singles?

it really depends. some singles are actually expensive (pokemon catcher, some EXs). if you find some cheap t/s/s singles go for it.

Or a Boundareis Crossed booster bos(Skylia!) or maybe the coldflames/icymagma theme decks? (j_k)

I ask, because I know, as a MtG player, I would have LOVED that someone had instructed me in the proper way to start the collection. Instead of buying a bunch of boosters and a theme deck Maybe Pokemon is different, I dont know.

It depends. If you dont find cheap T/S/S i would start with Dark explorers because it has so many good TSS and good pokemon. Also it has good cards for darkness decks which are quite good (you can also buy darkrai ex cheap because it is a tin promo)
BC doesnt have good supporters (juniper, n and cheren are better than skyla and hugh)
If you find a good league i am sure there are some players who will help you starting the game/collection. Good luck

 

[honchvire]

Hi! So...me again. ^^ I've been reading and searching and asking my kid what he wants to play. Boundaries Crossed just got out. I'm looking into investing 40-100usd.

Questions:

How do i get energy cards? friends/theme decks?

I was looking at the Serperion/Oshawoth pack that includes the theme deck+stuff. Reasonable play, or just mediore?

Should I go and buy all singles?

Or a Boundareis Crossed booster bos(Skylia!) or maybe the coldflames/icymagma theme decks? (j_k)

I ask, because I know, as a MtG player, I would have LOVED that someone had instructed me in the proper way to start the collection. Instead of buying a bunch of boosters and a theme deck Maybe Pokemon is different, I dont know.


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30065753.jpg

Buy playsets of staple T/S/S (trainer supporter stadium)first. You will be able to use most of these in every deck you make, so it will be the best use of your money. Staples include Professor Juniper, N, Cheren, Bianca, Skyla, Ultra Ball, Pokemon Catcher, Computer Search. Other good things to get: Level Ball, Heavy Ball, Skyarrow Bridge, Double Colorless Energy, Blend Energy, Prism Energy, Max Potion.

If you get the new theme decks, get the one with Blastoise in it. I think it comes with some Skylas too. If you can find some Keldeo EXs you could build that deck pretty easy.

If you want to be competitve right away, buy singles.
If you want to get into collecting, buy boosters and boxes.
If you start collecting now, you will most likely have everything you need to be competitive by the time next season begins in September.

 

[kurokun]

Thanks to both of you for your replies, very helpful info. =)

As honchvire mentioned. Could you please share a list of cards that go on most decks besides the arleady mentioned?

As I said I want to create 2 decks first. very simple decks so I can teach a 4 years old to play (he cant read yet)

he wants a water/electric deck (piplup+pikachu) and he wants me to play a grass+??. For pokemons, I can tell, I can get the ones I need, been playing Magic for 10+ years, so I am more-less accustomed to telling if a card is good or not in a TCG.

But since there are this many expansions, I worry about the trainer cards. ...I would think they are not very important if playing for fun, right? Obviously a competitive deck needs them...so I might as well buy at least a set of each. (even 2) or should I buy a box and trade/sell whatever +30usd card i get?

Thanks for your time to read and reply =)

 

[Ace-]

But since there are this many expansions, I worry about the trainer cards. ...I would think they are not very important if playing for fun, right? Obviously a competitive deck needs them...so I might as well buy at least a set of each. (even 2) or should I buy a box and trade/sell whatever +30usd card i get?

Thanks for your time to read and reply =)

If you play for fun you can also use older trainer cards. For competitive play the most important trainer cards you need are ( i assume you will build :lightning:+:water: and :grass: decks first)

Item:

switch
Heavy ball
Level Ball
Ultra Ball
Pokemon Catcher
Rare candy (if you play stage 2 decks)
tool scrapper
random receiver
super rod

Supporter:
N
Professor juniper
Bianca
cheren
Skyla

Ace spec:
Gold potion
Computer search

If you want to trade them i recommend buying a BC box because many players are looking for keldeo ex and landorus ex (which means you will get almost all important trainer cards if you get keldeo or landorus). But i recommend buying the trainer cards (check pokegym´s buyers house and trading corner) because most of them are not expensive.

 

[Otaku]

I don't think Gold Potion is worth going out of your way to get. If you have a copy of it but not the new Computer Search (and if it hasn't come up yet, no you can't use copies of the older version instead due to the change in text), yes you should run Gold Potion.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but I assume kurokun doesn't want to invest heavily in cards that aren't going to remain useful very long. Gold Potion is already second-fiddle to Computer Search, but unless the upcoming Scramble Switch is delayed, Gold Potion will soon be the third choice for most decks.

The effect Scramble Switch, in case anyone is unfamiliar with it, is that you select a Benched Pokémon, promote it, and the Energy that was attached to your former Active is now attached to your new Active. So... definitely a better choice for tank decks, the decks most likely to have preferred Gold Potion over Computer Search. Worst case scenario, you force your opponent to work harder for a KO without skipping a beat. Best case scenario, you drop a Max Potion after using it so that your old attacker is fully healed and waiting to be rebuilt.

The other suggestions from Ace- seem spot on.

 

[kurokun]

ok..that was like pokemon lvl 45 speech ^^

hahaha i didnt get most of the technical stuff. But I did get your advise correctly. Thanks 'Otaku'!

I am a fan of pokemon and avid TCG player, my son is huge fanatic. And I want to start with 2-4 leveled (between each other) entry-thematic-decks. Something fun and balanced (again, between each other, non competitive) Once he has learned all the basics, I can push to start going to tournaments next season.

can a thematic deck, not made for competitive , support 3 colors?

One for Ash (pikachu, charizard, etc) lighting/fire/?
One of Team Rocket trio (mewoth, arbok, koffin, etc) poison/psychic/plant
Dawn deck (pachirisu, aipom, piplup) lighting/water/?
Brook ROCK!!!! xP

What do you guys think?

Again, as always, thanks for taking the time to share our thoughts. =)


EDIT:

I read this: This isn’t something all decks have to follow – many popular decks like The Truth and CaKE use multiple types of Energy – but using two different types of Basic Energy like in most theme decks is generally a big no-no. While it may seem very nice to cover one type’s Weakness with another, what if you have a fully evolved Chandelure active and ready to attack, but you only pull Water Energy?

So...should I do them mono-colored? i know that for competitive you have to go to Dragons, EX, Legendary and/or synergistic cards.

I am just ranting here...thanks fro all those that stop by and share your experience. =)

 

[Trican]

If you want to build character themed decks that will excite your son about playing that's a fine thing to do. However as you seem to know just use it for basics. As I try to get my league members to do after they get the idea of how to play put out some cards that have synergy together on a basic level and see if they can pick it up. An example of simple combo "Hey this Emolga has an attack that puts two basics on your bench, and this Empoleon does more damage the more Pokemon are in play."

If I were to build a thematic deck I'd start mono color decks and slowly expand them to have attackers who use colorless attack costs and tech cards. If you do those tri color decks it might be frustrating for your son to try and get the right energy as you mentioned.

 

[kurokun]

Thanks for your time Professor Trican (XP) That sounds about right.

Now I am just torn apart on where to start. Im reading a bunch of columns on 2-3 sites and yeah, I'm starting to love this game's complexity.

But the harsh reality is the same as in other tcgs. Competitive decks are completely different than the more casual ones.

I am just "worried" of betting my money on the wrong cards (no one wants to spend hard earned money and loose its value.)

So. Lets wrap this up. Dontwanna take more from your time.

for 50-80 usd.

what should I get?

The newest theme decks + 3 MewTwo EX tins?

3 Darkrai tins + singles?

buy a booster box and trade if i get a ultra rare?

X_X

 

[CrystalEyeMonster]

Just buying singles would be cheaper. All the new cards that are playable are much more expensive.
Just try to Promo everything first, then go to the expensive side if you enjoy holoing out your deck.