Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!

Anyway, the reason why I'm keeping my vote on homeofmew is because I think the information cabd, KingPiplup, and Akane got were based on a whole faction. What I'm saying is that Cabd, KingPiplup, and Akane were all wolves and possibly got who was in another faction by accident.
For what reason would Pikamaster replace three members of the same faction? I don't see the sense in this. But for whatever reason, Pikamaster has instructed us to continue the game as if the replacing had not occured, which is what I intend to do. Your voting for HoM just seems like a random vote and not related to anything anyone has said.

Your_Face said:
sorry wrong tread
If you're active, please try to make a post about the game. That would be very helpful.
 
Ok. I first noticed this post during the freeze, and since then have been unavailable to get the time to comment on it (asking for a bump in my timezone apparently doesn't work so well...)

I have not read most of page 12 yet.

Benzo has already iterated a lot of what I'm going to say. But I think it was too readily dropped. The first few sentences in particular caught my eye.

It basically comes down to 3 things.

1) Pointless post expanding fluff
2) Alright townies, follow me. (Ala Cabd last game)
3) Scum Talk

Comments in bold
I agree with this, kinda. Right now, I have no information, except my role PM. I suspect the same is true of most of the town (some may have very limited other information) and most/all of the independents.

All this is pretty well given. Why bother to bring it up. It kinda feels like trying to say, "I'm a townie, and a DEFINITELY don't know anything about anyone else *shifty eyes.

Only the mafia have any real information, and that's whatever pregame planning they've done, and each other's names.

I think this just crosses the line into scum speculation. I've played in the last 4 games as scum, and they've alternated between radio silence during the day and free talk. Others we haven't even been allowed to plan pre-game. As Benzo said before, it's kind of implying that tables knows that the scum team have done some sort of pre game planning, and the he was involved.

So right now, we really don't have much to do except for RVS type posting (that's Random Voting Stage for those who don't know),

Thankyou for that. I'm pretty sure we all knew. And no one had asked,
but I'm pleased to see people very quickly pushing towards more serious discussion. The faster we start dissecting posts, the better. But as we get onto said serious discussion, I think it's worthwhile making sure each post adds content, as opposed to just posting to go 'hey guys I've read stuff what's going on?
Again, what a useful insight. That sure "added content" to the discussion,'



So, I'm not going to go to the effort of verifying your newness, but assuming you're telling the truth, the first question could be considered rolefishing (or rolephishing), which is basically a scum move where you try and get people to drop hints about their roles. I DO NOT think this what you intended, so don't consider this an accusation. But rolefishing can be extremely dangerous, as it paints a target on our important power roles, which is a very bad thing.

Sandslash7 linked to the Werewolf Compendium pregame, which I've been looking at. Scum numbers there are surprisingly lower than I would expect. 45 players is something crazy, I've played a 35 player game once, that had one team of 10 scum, and scum won by a super lucky last day move. So 45, I would say, I'd expect about 12-14 scum, but in all liklihood, I think that's the number where you get two teams, probably of about 6-8 each. Possibly even slightly lower numbers for a single/double team, and a few more independents, as that looks popular here.

[BIn a game this large, we know scum numbers will be large. We don't know how large, and no amount of speculating will help. Again the only people that know for sure are the scum team..... [/B]

But actually, theorising doesn't especially help right now. Later on, maybe, but let's leave it for then.

Then why bring it up, Covering tracks detected.

We get 23 people voting together by bandwagons. At first, it doesn't matter so much, but later on, people will have to vote for someone that maybe isn't their first suspect, but they do suspect somewhat, because it's the only way to get a consensus. In other words, we're basically going for something like approval (or disapproval?) voting, instead of FPTP voting.

Day 1 is valuable. It's a chance to set things in motion, see how people react, get initial reads on people. Right now, it's hard, there's very little to read, but as more people post, there's more to react to. Right now, people might get very weak reads, and I encourage you to vote on them - maybe you'll get more information from that person, which will either dissipate or raise your suspcions. Then you can move on, press them more, see how others feel, and vote for them still or someone else.

Again. Very helpful. Not at all post bloatware and group direction.

Right now, the only really town/scum play I've seen (and it's still very weak, a single posts read) is jellyfisher's post, from which I get a slight town read (more town posting is good, he encourages town posting.

Oh, I should probably slip some real content here in the end. Hmm, I know, lets buddy up to someone giving a public slight town read on day 1.


Vote: Tables

For reasons stated above.
Providing unnecessary content to chew up discussion time and make post appear bigger,
Attempting to lead or direct the town by playing the helpful friendly guy,
Speculating a bit too heavily about unknown scum information.


Oh and I'm also going to quickly agree with DP in that townies are more likely to fake impeds that wolves. Combined with the new warning system, I don't think we have anything against scorri.
 
When I first stopped by, the game was frozen. Then I was busy, and now this. I'll link the posts I want to highlight, because I'd post a ridiculous wall of quotes otherwise (and apologies in advance if the links don't work; point out any errors and I should be able to find the corresponding post). I am not an IDE or in a series of books that are better used as paperweights.

I might call a couple of people by odd names. This is because we all come from a different place, and that's how I'm accustomed to referring to them. Crimsonsky = Blitz and LusterPurge = Proto, so if you see those names, that's who I'm referring to. scorri, Tables, and Shinori also come from Over There.

Lastly, I will post more things that I don't like versus things I do. This is so that the rest of you can figure out what sets off my scumdar, and can evaluate my thoughts accordingly.

The first series of posts regarding lurking doesn't sit right with me. In any game, even those without a hammer, lurking town is a Bad Thing.

Questions like these aren't the way to start a conversation, because there's no telling what's in this game past my role PM. The third question will answer itself as the phase goes by, and the fourth question's answer should be obvious (sitting around is not beneficial to the town). I'm not going to give you a pass because you claim to be a noob - such things should not factor into your alignment.

The first few votes on Human Destroyer's wagon don't make me suspicious - this does. It reads of "I agree, ergo vote", which is sheeping. Speaking of, I don't think Human Destroyer is worth a vote right now, because the content after that wall doesn't make me uncomfortable enough to comment on.

This comes across as a threat. You are one opinion out of 45. Why should special emphasis be placed on your FoS?

This sounds like an excuse to sheep. The phase isn't ending for about a week, so it doesn't matter if votes are scattered all over the place early, especially early on D1.

This is what I'd expect a role that's harmful when targeted to do. This is to prevent detrimental effects in case other town roles target him at random. Whether or not Crimsonsky is actually town remains to be seen. However, that post makes me inclined to think he's not worth voting for right now.

This blatantly disregards what the host said about the mass sub-out, and seems like a lazy excuse to vote someone.

This is what is known as a OMGUS. That is all of one FoS, and it's so bad that you feel the need to vote him?

I disagree with this; I think Crimsonsky's playing pretty well as of this post.

I think this mindest won't help the town. How is town supposed to do anything without posting?

This is a new player post that I like. The "new" doesn't come across as an excuse to state something anti-town. However, stuff like analyzing early wagons helps to find scum who are attempting to push mislynches by hopping on misguided wagons - thus, the nitpicking of votes on people who have accrued a large number of votes.

I see no reason to assume this in regards to player alignment. I find this scummy because he seems to dodge everything else that's happening (HD votes and logic, Crimsonsky's revelation and subsequent things, etc.)

This states something that should be painfully obvious. There might be a wolf voting for HD. There might not be. Stating something like that as a first post strikes me as scummy, because it's not really a contribution.

So, if you liked Crimsonsky's play, what was the point of that vote? If I think someone is town, I'm not voting them unless it's hammer-or-no-lynch/I'm modkilled otherwise.

Going with the flow? That doesn't help town in the least.

From everything I've read, I dislike Vablakes' actions the most. Early on, he plays the noob card, then tells people how to get off of his FoS list, then votes Crimsonsky over a FoS, then says he likes Crimsonsky's play.

As of right now, I find PikaJewel suspicious for simply going along with the flow, PMysterious for parking a vote on someone due to the mass sub-out when there's so much more going on in-thread, and Glaceon/desufnoc for not really contributing. Would like StrongRhino and Shinori to post more, as I've got a weak scumread on the latter due to outside meta reasons, and I haven't quite made up my mind on the former. If I pointed out a post of yours/haven't commented on you, then I'm not inclined to vote for you right now.

Vote Vablakes
 
Questions like those did start conversation. Answers to some of those questions (how many wolves, ect.) would really help us. Other questions (Why RVS, what kind of roles do we normally see, ect.) were questions that I personally wanted answers to, because I'm a noob and I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing.

How does a FoS=a threat? I told him I would let him off of my FoS list if he provided a link to a previous game where that inside joke could be found. That isn't suspicious. I gave reasoning for my FoS. Why is my FoS more of a threat than anyone else's? Please, explain.

I wasn't OMGUSing, I was putting pressure on. I wanted to see how he would respond. That's why. Now that I don't think he was a brave wolf pulling off some sort of gambit, I really like his play.
 
Questions like those did start conversation. Answers to some of those questions (how many wolves, ect.) would really help us. Other questions (Why RVS, what kind of roles do we normally see, ect.) were questions that I personally wanted answers to, because I'm a noob and I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing.

How does a FoS=a threat? I told him I would let him off of my FoS list if he provided a link to a previous game where that inside joke could be found. That isn't suspicious. I gave reasoning for my FoS. Why is my FoS more of a threat than anyone else's? Please, explain.

I wasn't OMGUSing, I was putting pressure on. I wanted to see how he would respond. That's why. Now that I don't think he was a brave wolf pulling off some sort of gambit, I really like his play.

They might have started conversation, but they weren't questions that were good for the town. You always need to put the good of the town above personal questions. If you want to learn something, go to a website that has the kind of info you want. If you are like me and you can't do that, check out the compendium thread.
Just because you are a noob does not mean that you should play like a noob. You need to stop using that excuse.

I am not sure how to answer the FoS question, but I am pretty sure that he probably didn't care all that much that he was on your list.

It certainly looked like you were OMGUSing, and I find it hard to believe that you weren't.
 
@Jewelquest, I always get you two mixed up, sorry about that.

@Sheepbro, some of the points that I posted were repeats of previous posts, yes, but I was showing my support of those posts. The whole "who hasn't posted yet" question was completely valid, and I feel like it should be asked every 2-3 pages just so that the more recent list can be viewed. People not posting is a valid thing to question, and I do not understand why you question that! And, as for the whole "Scorri bold your post" thing, Vegi posted while I was typing. It happens. So, just to get this straight, you find me suspicious for:

Supporting points that I agree with, and making new points in the process.

Asking which players haven't posted so that we can put pressure on them.

Getting ninja'd.

Not posting anything substantial.

The last point is crazy IMO. I have been contributing more than you have, so the same could be said of you. I have been creating conversation. I have been making valid points. I have been trying my best to help us (the town) fish out wolves. I don't know what you find so suspicious about me.
Example
ex·am·ple [ig-zam-puh l, -zahm-]
noun
1.
one of a number of things, or a part of something, taken to show the character of the whole.
 
You are absolutely correct. Being a noob is no excuse. I'm trying my best to help the town in any way that I can. And you mean to tell me that finding out how many Werewolves there are isn't good for the town? I was steping up, taking initiative, learning how to play.

I don't want to have to FoS anyone. Honestly, I just kind of wanted that link to take suspicion off of him. I didn't think that he was very suspicious, but I wanted to confirm or deny that little bit of suspicion.

Well, looking back, it did look like OMGUSing. It was 1:30 in the morning, and I was really tired. I wasn't thinking straight, and I guess I worded it wrong. I'm not going to deny that it did looked like I was, but I wasn't.

I'll admit, everyone has valid points against me. I would bring up the same points if I were in their shoes. I have no excuse for being such a noob when the game started, or posting when I wasn't thinking straight. No more posts after 11 PM for me!
 
You are absolutely correct. Being a noob is no excuse. I'm trying my best to help the town in any way that I can. And you mean to tell me that finding out how many Werewolves there are isn't good for the town? I was steping up, taking initiative, learning how to play.

I don't want to have to FoS anyone. Honestly, I just kind of wanted that link to take suspicion off of him. I didn't think that he was very suspicious, but I wanted to confirm or deny that little bit of suspicion.

Well, looking back, it did look like OMGUSing. It was 1:30 in the morning, and I was really tired. I wasn't thinking straight, and I guess I worded it wrong. I'm not going to deny that it did looked like I was, but I wasn't.

I'll admit, everyone has valid points against me. I would bring up the same points if I were in their shoes. I have no excuse for being such a noob when the game started, or posting when I wasn't thinking straight. No more posts after 11 PM for me!

Something that bugs me. For a n00b you seem to be using Werewolf terminology quite profficiently...which would imply you either did research or are familiar with the game, neither of which suggest being a "newb."
 
I read cabd's guide to gambits and roles and stuff over on SixPrizes before I joined and it had a list of commonly used terms. I wanted to at least know about a few things when I started, so I read it.
 
You are absolutely correct. Being a noob is no excuse. I'm trying my best to help the town in any way that I can. And you mean to tell me that finding out how many Werewolves there are isn't good for the town? I was steping up, taking initiative, learning how to play.

And just how were you finding out how may wolves there are? Actually, I can answer that for you. You weren't. So why are you now attempting to act as if you were doing more then you actually were?

I wasn't OMGUSing, I was putting pressure on. I wanted to see how he would respond. That's why. Now that I don't think he was a brave wolf pulling off some sort of gambit, I really like his play.

Yeah, so I am having a very big problem with this statement. The problem is found when comparing this post to the one below.

What on earth? FoSing me? I was just pointing out that you made a dumb play. You don't reveal things like that, it makes wolves more likely to target you and the town more likely to lynch you. And, you really shouldn't reveal a retaliatory role to the wolves, that is helping them. You are really going to FoS me for that? For now:

Vote: Crimsonsky

FoSing me for pointing something that you did out is crazy. Revealing a retaliator role is crazy. You must be a wolf.

First off, notice how he goes from saying, "I was just pointing out that you made a dumb play" (I'm not going to quote all of that lovely little section of the post since the above quote is there) to telling us that now that he does not believe that Crimsonsky is a wolf, he likes his play. Does anyone else see a contradiction here?

And that brings us to the other problem with his post. And in my opinion, this is the bigger of the two problems. In the earlier post, he says that Crimsonsky must be a wolf. I'm just going to say this now. If it turns out that he did not mean that he was 100% sure that Crimsonsky was a wolf, I really don't care. In fact, I couldn't care less. The fact is that he said that Crimsonsky must be a wolf. Not that he might be a wolf. Not that he is probably a wolf. But that he must be a wolf. You can't throw around accusations like that lightly. If you say it, then you had better truly believe it. If evidence comes up that proves you to be incorrect, then it had better be very good evidence. And if you back away from your accusation, then you had better have a very good reason for doing so. Anything else will make many players want to have you lynched. And that is where we have our problem. As I said before, in earlier post, he said that Crimsonsky must be a wolf. But in his more recent post, he says that he believes that he is a townie. That is a massive contradiction, and to be honest, I also think that he is only saying that to go along with the rest of the town. To try and give the players voting for him less reason to do so.

@Vablakes: If any of this is untrue, then please, come forward and say so. If not, then I would advise you to start making a defense.

Vote: Vablakes
 
That is untrue. I was trying to make him slip up. I suspected him to be a wolf. When he responded, it wasn't in any way scummy and I realized that it was a mistake. I then thought about it, and came to the conclusion that if he is town then that is an excellent play. Like I said in an earlier post, it was 1:30 AM when I posted that, so I missworded a whole lot of stuff. What I posted and what I was thinking turned out very differently.

What I was thinking:
FoSing me for pointing out what I thought to be a dumb play is scummy. Don't just respond with an FoS, tell me why it wasn't a bad play. You might be a wolf.

And besides, what I was thinking wasn't very logical because I was tired. I think that anyone and everyone might be a wolves. I was simply trying to put a bit of pressure on him, nothing more. Contradicting myself wasn't a misplay of any kind, I changed my mind when I saw his reply. I then read into why he would make that play, and then realized it was good. Sorry if it looked scummy, even I admit that it does. But it was just a miswording and a change of mind.
 
That is untrue. I was trying to make him slip up. I suspected him to be a wolf. When he responded, it wasn't in any way scummy and I realized that it was a mistake. I then thought about it, and came to the conclusion that if he is town then that is an excellent play. Like I said in an earlier post, it was 1:30 AM when I posted that, so I missworded a whole lot of stuff. What I posted and what I was thinking turned out very differently.

Maybe you should post when you are more awake, yes? I was tired and posted badly is not a valid excuse, since it would be VERY easy for a scum player to cover up a mistake in wording like this.
And besides, what I was thinking wasn't very logical because I was tired. I think that anyone and everyone might be a wolves. I was simply trying to put a bit of pressure on him, nothing more. Contradicting myself wasn't a misplay of any kind, I changed my mind when I saw his reply. I then read into why he would make that play, and then realized it was good. Sorry if it looked scummy, even I admit that it does. But it was just a miswording and a change of mind.

Again, this really isn't a valid excuse. If I'm tired, I'll make a post saying "hey guys, I'll post later", and then post when I can think straight. Flip flopping your position so quickly looks very bad on you. However, I think it's even worse that the best defense you could come up with was that you missworded things because you were tired. I'm sorry, but that's not good enough for me.

Vote: Vablakes
 
Scorri post one (link)

I mentioned this before, but you missed my point. I am not "trying to get an easy bandwagon." In addition to trying to get the SI proven, I am pressuring you to see your reaction.

As someone else has posted before, historically on the Gym players have faked speech impediments to gain an advantage later on in the game (Absoltrainer during XVI, playing as a Serial Killer). This has been rampant in our metagame and, as I said before, I have no patience for faking SI's. Thus my vote. As I must take your word for it's veracity, I've retracted my vote.

As you have pointed out, the rules have changed. You may look back and see that I moderated last game, and since then the rules changed from my rules. I failed to notice that one. Sorry.


However, your response to my pressure is still not good, I'd say you failed pretty badly. Finally after three tries you get a legitimate vote on me. Are/Were you so scared of one vote that you feel the need to continually hound me? Are/Were you trying to hide something?


Scorri post two (link)

That second post is a mess. I got lost in how many times you said both Crimsonsky and my name.

My point: CrimsonSky did what he should have if he is truthful. If he is lying it is likely he is scum. Even if he is truthful though, it still doesn't clear him from being scum. I thought that was pretty obvious.
 
Yeah, I made a mistake. I'm paying for it. I accept that. I own up to it. Yes, I missworded something. Yes, it looked suspicious. Next time, I will wait until morning. I have no excuse.
 
First off, it was PIKAJEWEL, my sister, who bandwagoned Human_Destroyer, not me. So, could you redirect your question towards her?



I am assuming that you meant this for PikaJewel, but I shall answer your questions anyway.

My case against Human_Destroyer? I really don't have one. I seriously believe him to be a townie who felt the same way as I did about Vablakes, except that I am pretty sure that his 'role-fishing' was because of the fact that he is new.
I find that his tips were a good thing to post, since we seem to have several new players in this game, who may or may not have read the compendium thread.
About his your instead of our thing...He doesn't know whether or not he is speaking to a wolf, a townie, or an indie. It would hurt ANY of their win conditions to self-hammer.

What do I think about Vablakes? I find him to be an over-eager new townie that wants to help the town in all the ways that he can. If he is a wolf, then he will be easy to root out later, because of mistakes that he will make.
I do believe that he was 'role-fishing', but I do not believe that he was doing it on purpose.

What do I think about ProHawk? I am unsure on his alignment, but he has made several helpful posts, and seems to be actively hunting scum.



I was never trying to make him look scummy. As I have stated in my response to Kayle, I believe him to have been 'role-fishing' but without realizing that he was doing so, which I suppose only makes it half 'role-fishing'.

Moving on


QFT

Like what ProHawk said, this here is 'role-fishing'. He was not asking for the circumstances, but for a specific role that a townie would have. Why would a townie do that?
Not only that, but he doesn't post again after that, and simply seems to melt into the shadows. What is up with that?
He needs to get his butt out here, and he needs to answer for his actions.

The one post he has posted is enough for him to warrant my vote.

Vote: G landers
Reason: Obvious role-fishing and inacitivity.



Okay, I know that several people have already commented on this, but being your sister, I feel an obligation to post something. What on earth is this?
I know I have bandwagoned quite a bit in the past, but at least try to make an effort to find your own case for a vote before you make one.



*Sigh* I'd like to direct you to our last game. PMysterious was a townie the last game, and he let his emotions run free. The wolves used his emotions against him.
The one thing that you should learn as a townie is to keep your emotions in a cage. The wolves will use your emotions against you.
I find it perfectly fine to reveal a role like that. As many others have said, and he said himself, there are usually more townies than wolves, meaning that there is more chance of him killing(if that is what his role does) a seer or a cop that targets him.
But it also could be a clever tactic by a wolf, though by the way he is posting I find it unlikely. I believe that we should keep an eye on his day activity while having night roles steer clear.

Apparently we have two different views, I was simply trying to understand why a townie would lurk it just doesn't make sense to me unless theres a valid reason and as for my inactivity I'm just wrapping up my first semester in college and have been studying furiously for finals, my studies come first and foremost sorry. Jellyfisher answered my question find that is a poor accusation of role fishing I completly disagree with your points. I wanted to expand my knowledge of the game, As foor reading over the game day vablakes has simply admitted he was wrong and made a crucial mistake, its day 1 Valblakes seems like the best or only option at the moment and will get my vote for now.

Vote: Valblakes
 
I'm making a gambit here. I just want it to go on record so that everyone believes me when I reveal that play.

Fixed that for you. There's no reason to reveal anything right now. It's the first day and you only have a couple votes. If you're really town there's no reason to reveal anything this soon.
 
Well, if I reveal later on, no one will believe me. I want my play to go on record so that when I do reveal people will believe me.
 
Unvote: Human Destroyer

Vablakes is looking fishy, the 3rd or 4th time he said he "had no excuse for xxx" it started to look less like a person making bad plays with a person trying to cover up his misplays. He didn't get defensive, he got submissive, admitting to everyone that they were right and he was playing bad. It strikes me as trying to play to their ego almost. Even when he defeneded himself he wrote with a very submissive tone.

I also don't like how he posted "i'm going to reveal guys." without the reveal. That implies he needs to buy time before me posts it. I don't like it, not at all.

Vote: Vablakes

Convice me otherwise and I'll unvote you.
 
Back
Top