Werewolf XVIII: Dimensional Clash: Wolves/Outlaws Win!
- Thread starter Pikamaster
- Start date
To start:
UNVOTE: SCORRI
You're still on my radar for what I believe to be a role fish, but there are bigger fish to fry today.
While I do agree that we should be trying to find players with killing roles, we aren't going to just stumble upon them today. You also can't begin saying that certain groups have any sort of role, we don't have nearly enough info to give roles to groups yet. Using your logic I could say the enforcers are all healers since the only role of theirs so far has been a resurrection role and they can't vote right away.
What we need to do is go after anyone who is anti-town, no matter the alignment. We'll find the killing roles eventually as more info comes up in later days. Right now we have 2 claimed Pokemon and a known win condition of "Pokemon win". I see no reason not to lynch one of them and see if their win condition is also "Pokemon win". If it is we have another lynch target. Remember, anyone who doesn't have a "Town win" condition is anti-town.
For right now I think our choices should be between Vablakes and PP101. If something else comes up then we can decide from there, until then I'm doing:
VOTE: VABLAKES
I don't like how you continued to say that you were town because Latias is a "good" Pokemon. You also didn't say your win condition was "Town win" until pressured.
waynegg
CotD Editor<br>Forum Moderator
♬♭♪ It's raining wolves- Hallelujah- It's raining wolves!... ♪♭♬
OMG! Let's break this one down as it's a bit fragmented:
Really? Not long after someone looking particularly scummy post this:
But wait, there's more or I wouldn't waste your time on something so thin...
The wind up!
The Stretch!
The Pitch!
Only problem is, that's exactly what that is- a pitch. And, hopefully, no one is buying it.
"Pokemon Win" may well be a different win condition from "Town Wins", but that doesn't necessarily mean they are anti-town like wolves are. There is plenty of precedence for this if you look back at past roles. The only faction we should concern ourselves with during the day is wolves. Period. The others can be dealt with if needed after the wolves are gone.
Narrowing choices down to 2 players who have made claims that could lead you to believe their win condition is neither town nor wolf and then subtly rushing the vote is scummy. Sly, but scummy.
Cool story.
Only problem is how exactly can the town win if the "Pokemon win" condition activates? Pokemon might not be anti-town in the same way wolves are (with night kills, etc.) but they still have a different win condition. Since we don't know exactly how this condition activates, the only way to be sure it doesn't is to not have any Pokemon. Until we figure out how the "Pokemon win" condition activates I see them as nearly as much of a threat to the town as the wolves.
And yes, we do have to find non town killing roles. Once again, Pokemon and Enforcers are trying to fulfill their win condition. Any of them with a killing role is a danger to the town since there's no guarantee that they will use it on a wolf. We must also look for the wolf killing role, but I have no idea how we're suppose to be finding any of these roles at this point in the game.
The day is still young, but like I said, we currently have 2 leads (though I do have suspicions on others) that are based on claims to character types that we currently know to have a win condition that isn't "Town wins". Call it a pitch if you want, but until we can gather more evidence to find and lynch a wolf or figure out how the other faction's win conditions activate I don't see why we shouldn't go after people who have characters that fit the "Pokemon win" condition.
Also, I haven't rushed any sort of vote. I've been suspicious of vablakes since post 820.
Human Destroyer
New Member
I'm just going to say this again since we're talking about this way more than we should be.
From the Enforcer role flip, it looks more like a second scum team than some random third party, so we should be hunting for them along with the wolves.
We should be hunting Pokemon too, since it IS possible Independent could mean 3rd party.
Don't disregard other factions just because they aren't wolves. We should be playing by worst-case scenario, which is Pokemon and Enforcers are anti-town.
Y'know, I had a thought, is it possible that Enforcers don't only consist of Redwall characters? Or is Enforcers a Redwall thing?
From the Enforcer role flip, it looks more like a second scum team than some random third party, so we should be hunting for them along with the wolves.
We should be hunting Pokemon too, since it IS possible Independent could mean 3rd party.
Don't disregard other factions just because they aren't wolves. We should be playing by worst-case scenario, which is Pokemon and Enforcers are anti-town.
Y'know, I had a thought, is it possible that Enforcers don't only consist of Redwall characters? Or is Enforcers a Redwall thing?
DragonClyne725
New Member
I started playing in XV; I guess I missed this role from XIV. I didn't previously think Wolves would have the ability to hide their victims, but I guess it is possible if it is a very limited use role.waynegg said:
In other games I have played, the target of the Wolf kill's role was guaranteed to be revealed in the Night Update. When I saw Kayle's role, I naturally assumed that he was the target of the Wolves, and therefore, that Jelly had been targetted by some other role. I had not previous played in a game where Wolves could hide their victims, so I jumped to the wrong conclusions. As I see it now, it really could have gone either way.
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My basic point is that I don't think the Pokemon group is too dangerous at the moment because their vigilante is dead, and the odds of them having another is low. I'm not sure what "logic" you think I used that would lead to such an assumption. Care to elaborate?SMP88 said:
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It is possible. I don't seem to recall any "Enforcer" group in the Redwall series, though I didn't read every single book.HD said:
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I think it could be possible that the part about not being able to vote until 3 members have died could have been unique to Ultimatedra/TheBank, as it is placed under his Role: Replay:SS7 said:
Their entire faction/group could be limited with this restriction, but we won't know for sure until we see another Enforcer role. Just wanted to point that out in case we start trying to find Enforcers by carefully following votes or something.Brome the Healer said:
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That's about all for today. This weekend is pretty full for me, but I'll try to get back on tomorrow night.
Sure. I don't think it's safe to assume what factions have what roles at this point. The logic I was using was that if you are saying Pokemon can't have another killing role because of one role flip why can't we use the enforcer role flip to say that they are all healer types? My analogy was just to show that we can't base roles off of just one role flip.
pokemonplayer101
New Member
Sorry about being absent from the game, I was busy with school stuff Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday, and on Friday I was over at a friend's house. Now I can post though. :smile:
Alright. First off, just because I claimed Pokemon doesn't mean I have a Pokemon win condition. There were two people from Redwall, and one was an Enforcer, the other a Town. The character that you are means nothing, really. I think someone used this as an example earlier in the game, buuuut, if this was, saaay, a Star Wars theme, I don't think the Game Mod would make obvious characters such as the Sith & Darth Vader the wolves. DV could be an Indie, and the Sith another 3rd party, or somethin' along those lines.
Next up, waynegg is looking awfully cocky right now. Just because you think someone is a wolf, doesn't mean they are.
For example, in the last game on 6p, I could've sworn galladeava was a wolf, but in fact, it was desufnoc, someone who was leaning townie to me!
@MOD: moo2 told me at school that he's gonna need a replacement. He's grounded from the computer for a while, and though I'm not sure exactly how long, it's long enough that he feels the need to drop from the game. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Also, will the game be paused for Christmas & Christmas Eve? Or will it keep going?
Alright. First off, just because I claimed Pokemon doesn't mean I have a Pokemon win condition. There were two people from Redwall, and one was an Enforcer, the other a Town. The character that you are means nothing, really. I think someone used this as an example earlier in the game, buuuut, if this was, saaay, a Star Wars theme, I don't think the Game Mod would make obvious characters such as the Sith & Darth Vader the wolves. DV could be an Indie, and the Sith another 3rd party, or somethin' along those lines.
Next up, waynegg is looking awfully cocky right now. Just because you think someone is a wolf, doesn't mean they are.
For example, in the last game on 6p, I could've sworn galladeava was a wolf, but in fact, it was desufnoc, someone who was leaning townie to me!
@MOD: moo2 told me at school that he's gonna need a replacement. He's grounded from the computer for a while, and though I'm not sure exactly how long, it's long enough that he feels the need to drop from the game. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Also, will the game be paused for Christmas & Christmas Eve? Or will it keep going?
One of the common themes I'm seeing here is reference to other games and trying to compare to other games, when there is always room for precedence and twists. So the fact that you are saying there is no likely chance the wolves are able to kill twice or cover their tracks still looks scummy even after comparison; it's all about balance, so we could well have a town-win vigilante or a power-power role with a Town win condition that balances the game, but by no right should you completely wipe concepts under the carpet. I mean, look at the Jester role from previous games, seems silly, but it happens.
Diaz
New Member
DC
As I read, I find myself disagreeing with a lot of what DC has to say.
ProHawk
You realize that they would just use that protection to target other enforcers right? I could see the wolves having the same type of roll in a game with some non-wolf kill roles.
I don’t think we can count on the wolves to help the town take out other factions. It would be nice, but it isn’t something we can rely on.
As I read, I find myself disagreeing with a lot of what DC has to say.
ProHawk
Why? Do you think he’s a townie?
^This
Diaz. I meant that he seems to have other information that we dont. Anything else is pure speculation.
PMysterious
New Member
I have a gut feeling that the Wolves ARE the Enforcers and there are a lot of Indies lurking about including these Pokemon. Of course, that's just my opinion (even though nobody reads me) and no one else can change it. BTW, I was semi-right about the 2 factions.
Diaz
New Member
Why would enforcers and wolves have different colors in the first post?
No one can change your mind on this one? Do you realize how dangerous that is? You need to be open to changing your mind if that change is warranted.
Why do you think no one "reads you"? Do you mean that no one reads what you post? That's wrong, and it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about something.
PM seems to want to cling to his votes no matter what evidence comes at him... I'll have to think on this.
Being a pokemon that is evil and a pokemon that seems to be good has nothing to do with the game, look at Arceus! Anyways I'm finding Vablakes suspicious, his character and his claimed role have nothing to do with each other! has anybody else noticed this?
Being a pokemon that is evil and a pokemon that seems to be good has nothing to do with the game, look at Arceus! Anyways I'm finding Vablakes suspicious, his character and his claimed role have nothing to do with each other! has anybody else noticed this?
Well if you're not a townie I'm voting for you Voterohawk
Fairly certain he was talking about dragonclyne, not himself >.>
Well if you're not a townie I'm voting for you Vote
Opportunistic much? I am a townie, so your reasoning for voting me is silly. I do wonder if you are though with you twisting words around...
pokemonfreak5
New Member
Going after DC purely for his reasoning on the different factions is founded on assumptions that just CANNOT be made at this point in the game. I think it's highly unlikely that there isn't a wolf faction. Until we know more about the other factions, the wolves should remain our biggest priority, as they are our biggest threat. They are the only faction that is guaranteed to have a consistent NK, and in this role madness style setup I'd say they probably have a few other tricks up their sleeves.
Sure the other factions may be a threat too, but we don't know that for sure. We shouldn't forget about them obviously, but by no means should we stop scum-hunting just to focus on either the enforces or the Pokemon. It is entirely possible that more than one faction can win this game. Or perhaps one faction has no interest in the town, and have a completely passive win condition that cannot be fulfilled until late game anyway (survival type etc). But until we start getting some role flips all this speculation will get us nowhere, and persecuting people for it is just as bad.
That being said, I like waynegg's post against SMP88. SMP88's post jumped from a lot less speculation to a lot more active distraction techniques. (IE, Let's all vote for Pokemon NOW) But his reply also irks me somewhat.
I think that'll do it for me
Vote: SMP88
Sure the other factions may be a threat too, but we don't know that for sure. We shouldn't forget about them obviously, but by no means should we stop scum-hunting just to focus on either the enforces or the Pokemon. It is entirely possible that more than one faction can win this game. Or perhaps one faction has no interest in the town, and have a completely passive win condition that cannot be fulfilled until late game anyway (survival type etc). But until we start getting some role flips all this speculation will get us nowhere, and persecuting people for it is just as bad.
That being said, I like waynegg's post against SMP88. SMP88's post jumped from a lot less speculation to a lot more active distraction techniques. (IE, Let's all vote for Pokemon NOW) But his reply also irks me somewhat.
I think that'll do it for me
Vote: SMP88