8 incomplete evolution line in Boundaries Crossed

[vaporeon]

While I was working on sleeving by Boundaries Crossed set to put the cards in my binder, I realized that the set has 8 incomplete evolution lines. I believe this is the most any Pokemon set had. For those who dont know what cards they are I'll list them.

Pikachu's line
Chinchou 's line
Gothita's line (only Gothitelle is missing)
Makuhita 's line
Klink's line
Meowth 's line
Togepi 's line
Taillow 's line

This is not including baby Pokemon or Pokemon like Scyther but evolution lines. This is really absurd in my books. There's almost no reason for these like to be in the set at all. They could have been left out and used in a set that the evolution lines are in. Its like they did not even try with Taillow. Some of these cards could have been in the next set.

I know some of you wont care about this because you rather focus on whats playable and whats not but something should be done about sets including large numbers of incomplete evolution line. I mean the set has 153 cards. They could have added 8 more if the Pokemon card existed.

 

[EeveeLover]

How about they not release a card that is useless in the first place?

Most cards are so bad, new players won't even use them.

That would take out 2/3 of most sets and all of some sets...

 

[PokePop]

I think they shoehorned in japanese promos into the set.

 

[vaporeon]

There should be a time and place for cards to be released. The Klink and Togepi could have been released in the next set and no one be the wiser because their evolutions are there. As for throwing in Promos. They should just release them here as promos.

 

[Frost]

They weren't promos. They were part of the National Beginning Set, which was an entire pre-made deck-type deal with 40 or so cards. All of the Ken Sugimori cards in BC are from there, and there were no cards of the evolutions even in the Japanese release.

 

[vaporeon]

They weren't promos. They were part of the National Beginning Set, which was an entire pre-made deck-type deal with 40 or so cards. All of the Ken Sugimori cards in BC are from there, and there were no cards of the evolutions even in the Japanese release.

The idea is to not release cards not made for competitive play and put them in our set. It would be a lot easier if they made our sets just like the ones from Japan. it would have been nice for use to get the national Beginning set as a standalone. They gave us a mini set so it was possible use to get it.

Another thing is the Japanese Pokemon sleeves. it would be nice if upper deck made some nice design Pokemon sleeves as well because it sucks spending 30+ bucks for sleeve from japan. There is a market for it here so it should be here.

 

[Otaku]

They weren't promos. They were part of the National Beginning Set, which was an entire pre-made deck-type deal with 40 or so cards. All of the Ken Sugimori cards in BC are from there, and there were no cards of the evolutions even in the Japanese release.

While true, this still would not prevent those cards that would have Evolutions in the next set or two from being moved into such sets. Since we did not get the National Beginning Set properly, odds are set rotation will still be hit or miss, and the basic idea of the National Beginning Set (whatever that is) likely won't be hurt any more or less with the shift.

 

[TheRolesWePlay]

The idea is to not release cards not made for competitive play and put them in our set. It would be a lot easier if they made our sets just like the ones from Japan. it would have been nice for use to get the national Beginning set as a standalone. They gave us a mini set so it was possible use to get it.

Another thing is the Japanese Pokemon sleeves. it would be nice if upper deck made some nice design Pokemon sleeves as well because it sucks spending 30+ bucks for sleeve from japan. There is a market for it here so it should be here.

Two things.

One, who decides what is a competitive card. Several cards have come from things similar to the National Starter set that have been useful in the past. 'Bad'boar comes to mind, as it came out as a promotional card and was used to some extent. Similarly so did Reshiram EX and Zekrom EX, the latter seeing some fair play when it was released.

Second, you overestimate the market for things such as sleeves. We don't have anywhere near the market that Japan does, much less one that would be able to maintain a constant flow of new sleeves. Similarly so with the National Beginner set. America doesn't have the market to push such a product well enough to be worthwhile. This isn't Japan, we can't get mini-sets very often, and TPCi can't maintain some forms of merchandise, like that.

 

[Pokepower22]

The idea is to not release cards not made for competitive play and put them in our set. It would be a lot easier if they made our sets just like the ones from Japan. it would have been nice for use to get the national Beginning set as a standalone. They gave us a mini set so it was possible use to get it.

Another thing is the Japanese Pokemon sleeves. it would be nice if upper deck made some nice design Pokemon sleeves as well because it sucks spending 30+ bucks for sleeve from japan. There is a market for it here so it should be here.

Id love them to make more sleeves that have awesome designs.If we had Pokécenters in other country's than Japan then sleeves could be in the market.Or,sell them to Gaming Stores.On another note,I wish they wouldn't put the wasted Pokemon in our set,or at least in japan give them better attacks-The people in Japan buying these and playing probably wont be doing well.

 

[Furn]

The people in Japan buying these and playing probably wont be doing well.

The people buying these sets are little kids, the problem with the English sets comes down to combing things aimed at different target audiences.

It's like if Wizard of the Coast had a "Magic Jr." line that they then started adding into the main sets.

 

[Skitty]

Id love them to make more sleeves that have awesome designs.If we had Pokécenters in other country's than Japan then sleeves could be in the market.Or,sell them to Gaming Stores.On another note,I wish they wouldn't put the wasted Pokemon in our set,or at least in japan give them better attacks-The people in Japan buying these and playing probably wont be doing well.

As Frost already said, most of the "bad Pokemon" in this set were from the Beginging Decks in Japan. They were meant to teach people how to play the game, not be amazingly good cards. It's usually a good idea to teach new players how to play with simple cards like them than to just throw in advanced "good" cards.

 

[Otaku]

As Frost already said, most of the "bad Pokemon" in this set were from the Beginging Decks in Japan. They were meant to teach people how to play the game, not be amazingly good cards. It's usually a good idea to teach new players how to play with simple cards like them than to just throw in advanced "good" cards.

Simple =/= bad, nor does complex =/= good. For that matter, Pokémon cards come in more varieties than just "good" (that is, reliably winning tournaments) and "bad" (a challenge to make a functional fun deck with).

Hitmonchan (Base Set 7/102) is a simple card, but was probably the overall strongest Pokémon in the Base Set. It was diminished by later releases, but wasn't completely out of the Unlimited (not that it was even known as that) competitive scene until the release of Neo Genesis, which included the only two cards so potent as to have been banned from a Modified Format: Slowking (Neo Genesis 14/111) and Sneasel (Neo Genesis 25/111).

It is a definite "turn off" to picking up a game to find out what you started the game with is pretty bad, whether you're a little kid who finds out his favorite card can't compete at all, or an older player finding out he just wasted money getting the cards meant to help teach him the game. "Vanilla" cards that lack complex mechanics. I would even question putting Evolutions in such a deck at all; while an important mechanic for Pokémon, it can wait.

To summarize, amongst the cards that don't see play, you'll find both the simple and complex; claiming the National Beginning Set must be made with cards no even remotely competitive is simply untrue. Making the cards simple is a good idea, but simple has been very successful in this game and others.

 

[vaporeon]

Two things.

One, who decides what is a competitive card. Several cards have come from things similar to the National Starter set that have been useful in the past. 'Bad'boar comes to mind, as it came out as a promotional card and was used to some extent. Similarly so did Reshiram EX and Zekrom EX, the latter seeing some fair play when it was released.

Second, you overestimate the market for things such as sleeves. We don't have anywhere near the market that Japan does, much less one that would be able to maintain a constant flow of new sleeves. Similarly so with the National Beginner set. America doesn't have the market to push such a product well enough to be worthwhile. This isn't Japan, we can't get mini-sets very often, and TPCi can't maintain some forms of merchandise, like that.

I get what you're say. I dont know how big the National Starter set was but here in America, we were given the Dragon Vault mini set which could have been released in Dragon Exalted; which we all though it would be released in. Dragon Vault was a set made to be a collectable set. They could have released a bunch of smaller Dragon type Pokemon in the set with out evolution and no one may not have cared; just like they did with with the Southern Island Pokemon set which had a lot of broken evolution lines. It worked because it was a theme of tropical Pokemon.

Instead of just releasing the National Starter set as a mini set or a 2 player plus starter kit like they have had before if the cards were in fact made for newer players trying to learn the game. it seems like since the start of the Black and White series, I have only been buying the new sets just for the ultra rares and a hand full of playable stage 2 Pokemon. They should treat our sets with a little more respect.

As for who decides whats competitive; its not really anyone saying this and that is competitive but rather people going to the cards they think are worth playing and those cards tend to be the EX Pokemon because they outclass everything else.

On your second point. It may just be my area because a ton of people here have the Japanese Pokemon sleeves. I even had to go and buy some because I felt I needed them. it would be easy to make a market for them here.

 

[Tash]

I believe this is the most any Pokemon set had.

Base had 10, although I mainly say this because it would have bugged me otherwise.

 

[PokePop]

The idea is to not release cards not made for competitive play and put them in our set.

Whoa there now.
You're making a huge assumption that the one and only Raison d'être for Pokemon TCG sets is to supply the Competitive play market.
Not so.
Sure, it's important that a set have a good population of tournament worthy cards, but part of what a set is also trying to accomplish is to have cards that the smaller kids getting their parents to buy them also have their "favorite" Pokemon in it. And Pikachu, Meowth, and friends fill that bill for a lot of kids.

 

[Frost]

Plus, it's not like the National Beginning Set cards (other than Serperior, Emboar and Samurott) were rarities higher than uncommon. When you get like seven of every common card in a box, does it really matter if it's National Beginning Pikachu or some other card from Cold Flare/Freeze Bolt that's only moderately more playable?

 

[vaporeon]

Whoa there now.
You're making a huge assumption that the one and only Raison d'être for Pokemon TCG sets is to supply the Competitive play market.
Not so.
Sure, it's important that a set have a good population of tournament worthy cards, but part of what a set is also trying to accomplish is to have cards that the smaller kids getting their parents to buy them also have their "favorite" Pokemon in it. And Pikachu, Meowth, and friends fill that bill for a lot of kids.

What I was trying to say was cards aimed at getting new players into the game should have their own product that is not a starter deck because those cards are based on the set released with it. You remember the trainer kits right? There were a few of them. Those were aimed at getting newer players at getting into the game. I'm not saying that every card in any set should be playable but every Pokemon should be represented fairly. Every Pokemon has someone that likes it.

When it comes to Pikachu, many of its cards are playable and Meowth seems to be "made" worse then Pikachu because of the show and thats fine but Pikachu and Meowth are not the only Pokemon to sale the game.

Plus, it's not like the National Beginning Set cards (other than Serperior, Emboar and Samurott) were rarities higher than uncommon. When you get like seven of every common card in a box, does it really matter if it's National Beginning Pikachu or some other card from Cold Flare/Freeze Bolt that's only moderately more playable?

National Beginning's was made to be a starting point for new players right? I want to make sure I'm right on this.

 

[Otaku]

Whoa there now.
You're making a huge assumption that the one and only Raison d'être for Pokemon TCG sets is to supply the Competitive play market.
Not so.
Sure, it's important that a set have a good population of tournament worthy cards, but part of what a set is also trying to accomplish is to have cards that the smaller kids getting their parents to buy them also have their "favorite" Pokemon in it. And Pikachu, Meowth, and friends fill that bill for a lot of kids.

Whoa there now, you're making a huge assumption that when appealing to the massive amount of seemingly random little kids getting that booster pack of Pokémon cards in lieu of an inexpensive toy is somehow harmed by designing something like the National Beginning Set so that the Pokémon aren't largely filler.

If the major target demographic just needs certain Pokémon in the set, that is fine; it doesn't preclude those Pokémon also being useful. When you can please your primary market while adding in a secondary market, why wouldn't you? Even if you need to keep things simple while also making "potentially" competitive cards, large HP scores and simple-but-Energy-efficient attacks are really all that is required.

Obviously, I am not aligned completely with vaporeon's concern. Having incomplete Evolution lines makes some sense; Evolving complicates the game, and if the Evolutions aren't as popular, I don't mind leaving them out of something like a "National Beginning Set".

We didn't get that set, however; we had it broken up and shoehorned into other sets, and the decision was made not to just add them to sets that were already in the pipeline and could have contained the full Evolution line.

 

[PokePop]

Is this really what it comes down to? *****ing about some extra commons and uncommons added to a set?
This is a large set. You didn't lose any cards. You just got extra cards.
If these cards weren't in the set, you'd get an extra few other commons and uncommons.
That's it.
This is worth complaining about?

 

[TheRolesWePlay]

I get what you're say. I dont know how big the National Starter set was but here in America, we were given the Dragon Vault mini set which could have been released in Dragon Exalted; which we all though it would be released in. Dragon Vault was a set made to be a collectable set. They could have released a bunch of smaller Dragon type Pokemon in the set with out evolution and no one may not have cared; just like they did with with the Southern Island Pokemon set which had a lot of broken evolution lines. It worked because it was a theme of tropical Pokemon.

Instead of just releasing the National Starter set as a mini set or a 2 player plus starter kit like they have had before if the cards were in fact made for newer players trying to learn the game. it seems like since the start of the Black and White series, I have only been buying the new sets just for the ultra rares and a hand full of playable stage 2 Pokemon. They should treat our sets with a little more respect.

You're kind of comparing apples to oranges here. Dragon Vault featured some of the most adored Pokemon in the franchise, Dragons, and their popularity warranted them their own mini set. It was also an experiment, albeit successful, that doesn't mean Pokemon is going to start releasing them left and right. Not to mention the National set featured some 40 cards, including trainers, and fully evolved Pokemon (ie. the three starters), and Pokemon seamlessly added. It was too big for a mini-set, and we already the BW trainer kit last year (something they don't do annually mind you). Not to mention that it had some three or four components. (Don't quote me on this, I'm going off of memory for the last part)

As for who decides whats competitive; its not really anyone saying this and that is competitive but rather people going to the cards they think are worth playing and those cards tend to be the EX Pokemon because they outclass everything else.

Then why are you calling for the 'uncompetitive' cards to not be printed. Players determine what is playable after they are released, and after they are tested by players. The guys who put the sets together likely don't know what is going to be good. They probably don't have time to know what's coming out in future sets since they're so busy. As for EXs outclassing everything, then why are Eels, Blastoise, and Sableye everywhere, and why is Empoleon seeing some play.

On your second point. It may just be my area because a ton of people here have the Japanese Pokemon sleeves. I even had to go and buy some because I felt I needed them. it would be easy to make a market for them here.

First, you feeling the need to buy Japanese sleeves because everyone else does is rather silly, just saying. Second this is from your experience of what 100+ players, that isn't exactly a market for selling this stuff, and I'm sure not all of them consistently buy new sleeves, or even all own Japanese sleeves.

---------- Post added 01/07/2013 at 05:12 PM ----------

Is this really what it comes down to? *****ing about some extra commons and uncommons added to a set?
This is a large set. You didn't lose any cards. You just got extra cards.
If these cards weren't in the set, you'd get an extra few other commons and uncommons.
That's it.
This is worth complaining about?

May I just express how beautifully true this is. :smile: