Points Required to Qualify for the World Championships: 500 CP for Masters? WHAT!

[losjackal]

Okay, you aren't arguing for a different cutoff mechanism, just a lower bar of the current mechanism. I see.

500 is something to shoot for. The fact is, if it's looking like not enough people achieve 500, TPCi will likely be forced to lower the bar.
But on the other hand if people do travel and do get lucky and it's looking like players have self-selected themselves by rising to the challenge and meeting the 500 requirement, then the higher bar worked, fewer people go to Worlds (compared to Vancouver), and it was the right number.

Either way, the only thing to do is to start the seasons strong, see if you get lucky early, and then decide if it's worth it to keep competing to be one of the best.
If players are opting out early, then it's only going to be easier for the remaining highly competitive players to earn points and indeed achieve the 500 mark.


In short, a higher bar sucks for any individual player, because it's more difficult to assess the certainty of attaining those 500 points given the available tournaments and resources to compete in those tournaments and luck to finish well in those tournaments.
But in the end, there will be enough invitations given out one way or another to have a Worlds with around 128 masters. That is one goal of the Organized Play program.

 

[Vegeta ss4]

Yes, their one goal, plus creating a situation if near pure profit. Charge people to go to events and then give them prizes if their own stuff that they can make for next to nothing. It is a business, I get it.

The thing AGAIN is...you can go to 3 regionals and win and still NOT get an invite. The likelihood of that happening is slim to non existent, but it is a pause for concern. People have given up already because what's the point? Not everyone can afford to make a trip every weekend, pay $20+ every tournament, pay $2,500+ this season(not including Nat's and worlds) to "hope" they get lucky and get an invite. It is unrealistic to spend over a quarter of our yearly earnings to be able to compete. With 400 CP, it was more attainable and less stress and an overall better environment. Now the game has slightly turned into a more cutthroat scenario. SotG could be at an all time low, for good reason. I think the only thing that can get me back into the game is introduce online tournaments as well that could garner chance to qualify for worlds. Such as the top in an online elo system battle it out for the last tournament, then the top few get an invite or trip. You can even introduce charges to enter an online tournament. Not only does this level the playing field in terms of who can get an invite, but it creates a more stress free environment.

The way the player base is going, most players play online for money, making a few bucks to offset cost for the cards them self. This game is headed in that direction along with players MORE interested in unsanctioned events vice TPCi organized events. Imagine a world where players create an unsanctioned event, then slowly the game grows for unsanctioned and before you know it TPCi loses lots of money from the backlash of players. I can see this happening in the near future...if I were to guess I'd say around 3-4 years before TPCi will HAVE to listen to us players otherwise they would lose a lot of money to pretend they know what they are doing.

It angers me because for the 1st time in years, I was pleasantly pleased by the way TPCi started handling things. 400 CP seemed to be the number most expected it to he this year, it sounded good to me. Increased prize support by making masters pay an entry fee, nailed it on the head...I overall liked it. Starting to move world's locations to different spots...about time. They were headed in the right direction, then flipper the script and reverse all the POSITIVE it had accomplished.

Again, its been 10 years...we still have no where near a lot perfect system. There is NO excuse for this! We all know perfection is darn near impossible, people will always complain...but there comes a time where you need to please the many and not the few or the one. They are no where near it.

 

[losjackal]

I respect your opinions on this and can sympathize with how much of a challenge it must feel like looking at what one must do this year. But...

It angers me because for the 1st time in years, I was pleasantly pleased by the way TPCi started handling things. 400 CP seemed to be the number most expected it to he this year, it sounded good to me. Increased prize support by making masters pay an entry fee, nailed it on the head...I overall liked it. Starting to move world's locations to different spots...about time. They were headed in the right direction, then flipper the script and reverse all the POSITIVE it had accomplished.

Given the above parameters, how many Masters would you predict would earn an invitation, and how many of those would show up in Washington D.C.?

 

[Vegeta ss4]

I would guess around 50-70 actually qualify for world's. After that, it will be all about the Grinder.

 

[losjackal]

I would guess around 50-70 actually qualify for world's. After that, it will be all about the Grinder.

Why fewer than last year? There were 75 players with 400+ points after Nationals. With more opportunities to max out the League Challenge and Regionals best finishes...I was expecting you to say there would be more than 75 this year.

Because with a majority of those willing and able to travel to Washington D.C. (a new location, an attractive tourist city, and in the continental US), then TPCi would have a Worlds tournament that is much larger than 128.


So if anything, the chosen limit of 128 is the debatable issue in my opinion. Not 400 vs. 500 points, not Top 40, not travel expenses, etc etc. One way or another, TPCi has the will to limit the invitations. And when more players compete for a finite number of spots, of course it has to be more challenging.

 

[Vegeta ss4]

More opportunities does not = I'm going to to go to every opportunity.

The logic you used is flawed.

 

[losjackal]

It's not flawed to reason that if some players went to 3 Regionals last year and walked away with 120 points on average, that if they attend 4 this year they could walk away with 160 on average.

 

[Goldenthumb]

I think the new way to look at it is "Nats is the gateway to worlds" getting 500 would be very hard for anyone, but I dnt think that's the goal anymore. The goal for us is to be in the top100 and get the trip to Nats. From there you either get the points you need or you don't...I can't speak for other countries and I feel sorry for the ones who basically have an impossible goal to achieve.

 

[King Piplup]

losjackal, what are your thoughts on the high concentration of people that only reached that benchmark of 500 because they had an auto 500 CP?

 

[Goldenthumb]

Also idk why all the bickering about "I gota travel to 3 regionals, spend $2500+, and pay for tourneys, blah blah" I can understand if the prize support was the same and we were basically playing for points only but 1st for regionals gets a case. That in itself is worth going to play for. The the "klaczinski open" was a such a big success and loved by many and regionals is basically the same thing except cheaper. And for those people who are saying "I dnt play for packs!" Well what are you playing for? If its for the scholarships then your better off putting all that money you spend on tournament into a college fund. If its for cash go play poker, or magic for the under 18.

 

[losjackal]

KP, getting a leg up on the next season via points at Worlds is interesting. Xander had a 50 headstart last year (finishing with 478 before winning 500 more at Nationals), so without that he would have been 428 at the end of States as a first year Senior, when we started to slow down. (Didn't try hard at Regional, only attended 1 BR).

So my personal thought is, it's going to be an uphill battle to reach 450. Last year honestly was easier than we thought it was going to be. This year we obviously have no idea what to expect with the format and the tournament changes.


Going beyond personal experience and situation, the fact is, if 500 is too high of a number, TPCi will likely lower it in the end to make sure the right number of people will get invited. (That's better than a half-filled room, right? Admittedly that might cause it's own problems like "Not fair! I thought the bar was 500! I stopped trying!" I honestly don't know what they are willing to do.)

Realistically, how different would players compete for the next 10 months if the number was 475 instead? 450?
I'm pretty sure someone, somewhere would still criticize ANY increase above 400. It's a change. Players don't like changes that makes things harder for them. It's natural. But there is a larger system that has its own goals to accomplish.


I think the takeaway is, earn as many points as quickly as you can, and assess after Cities whether you have a shot of being in the 400-500 range by the end of the season to make it worth competing in the latter half. The rest will sort itself out. Don't opt out now out of spite.

 

[LOLZ]

Admittedly that might cause it's own problems like "Not fair! I thought the bar was 500! I stopped trying!" I honestly don't know what they are willing to do.)

With T100 getting Travel Awards and/or Travel Stipends, player can not and will not stop trying to get Championship Points.

 

[King Piplup]

More specifically, the fact that only 7 Masters NA players earned 500 without literal earning 500 at once? Or is that the same general thought as above?

 

[raxl]

With T100 getting Travel Awards and/or Travel Stipends, player can not and will not stop trying to get Championship Points.

If through incredible luck and skill I have 500 championship points at the end of States, I'm not going to spend money to fly to up to three Regionals to maybe increase my stipend by less than it costs to fly to a Regionals anyway; 500 at that point will almost certainly lock in one of the top two tiers of travel rewards for Nationals. Not many people will be in this position, and I doubt any of them will be me, but probably a few people will be.

 

[losjackal]

More specifically, the fact that only 7 Masters NA players earned 500 without literal earning 500 at once? Or is that the same general thought as above?

Same thought. It looks like the 500 bar is too high. If it is, hopefully TPCi lowers it in the end. I understand if people want to treat it like an absolute cutoff right now and decide not to invest the time to even start. But even if the bar were only 400, the immediate challenge between now and the end of Cities I think is the same: practice, do as well as you can, and see how many points you start the year off with.

 

[K2theAblaM]

With T100 getting Travel Awards and/or Travel Stipends, player can not and will not stop trying to get Championship Points.

Not so sure about this one. The top 100 prizes are nice, but will you spent 300 bucks + lodging on a trip to regionals for the chance to earn a 300 dollar stipend? Are you willing to do this 5-7 times a year to have a shot at a "free" trip to nationals?

At some point, you will be spending more money to win a trip that you could have just paid for, or a stipend valued less than what you spent in order for a shot to win the stipend in the first place.

I think anybody playing with the Top 100 prizes in mind has the wrong mindset about this season. The best way is to get your invite, and get done with it. The less you travel, the more money saved and can be put towards the actual goal, competing in worlds and nationals.

 

[Goldenthumb]

Not so sure about this one. The top 100 prizes are nice, but will you spent 300 bucks + lodging on a trip to regionals for the chance to earn a 300 dollar stipend? Are you willing to do this 5-7 times a year to have a shot at a "free" trip to nationals?

At some point, you will be spending more money to win a trip that you could have just paid for, or a stipend valued less than what you spent in order for a shot to win the stipend in the first place.

I think anybody playing with the Top 100 prizes in mind has the wrong mindset about this season. The best way is to get your invite, and get done with it. The less you travel, the more money saved and can be put towards the actual goal, competing in worlds and nationals.

I don't get it...so your saying that last season it was worth it, but not now?

 

[K2theAblaM]

I don't get it...so your saying that last season it was worth it, but not now?

Yes, because this season will require me to travel 3 times more than last year, on top of paying 5-20 dollars per tournament ( a cost that will add up to about 350-400 dollars for me alone, before accounting for the extra traveling expenses). Now with the 500 CP requirement, I'm expected to attend at least 2-3 more regionals this year to have a legitimate shot at another invite. It's expensive, time consuming, and quite frankly, not worth the investment anymore.


My original point was this: The top 100 prizes do very little to incentivise me to play out the entire season and continually earn CP, with or without an invite. I'm guessing a good 75-90% of the people who earn the top 100 awards before nationals aren't going to be getting their invites anyways, given the CP requirement.

ADDITIONALLY: prizes for regionals have been dramatically decreased in favor of handing out the Top 100 CP prizes. Winning a regionals last year would have garnered a paid trip to Nationals, a $1200 value for me with the flight and 4 nights at the Crown Plaza. Now the first prize is a case of cards (that I will likely have no use for since I already own the cards i need in order to play) valued at 480 for me. How can I justify spending hundreds and thousands of dollars to play in tournaments where my prizes have all been stripped, while having to pay a 20 entry fee. It doesn't make sense.

 

[NoPoke]

Unless marketing instructs POP to lower the bar I can see no reason to expect it to be reduced. You only have to look at the figures from last year to see that lots of players did make it past 500 without doing well at their countries Nationals. A bit of research will allow you to draw reasonable conclusions as to why they did rather than uninformed speculation.

What effect this all might have upon players attitude towards POP has yet to be seen as the tournament year hasn't started anywhere other than in Germany.

 

[Goldenthumb]

Yes, because this season will require me to travel 3 times more than last year, on top of paying 5-20 dollars per tournament ( a cost that will add up to about 350-400 dollars for me alone, before accounting for the extra traveling expenses). Now with the 500 CP requirement, I'm expected to attend at least 2-3 more regionals this year to have a legitimate shot at another invite. It's expensive, time consuming, and quite frankly, not worth the investment anymore.


My original point was this: The top 100 prizes do very little to incentivise me to play out the entire season and continually earn CP, with or without an invite. I'm guessing a good 75-90% of the people who earn the top 100 awards before nationals aren't going to be getting their invites anyways, given the CP requirement.

And my original point is that 500 shouldnt be the goal anymore. TOP100 should be the goal. The only logical way to get a worlds invite is through Nats. And from what i know theres two chances to get points at Nats. Also Im from CA too, Central Cali so I have to do just as much, if not MORE, traveling than you. Ive taken the trips to Long beach and I've never had to spend $300+. If you are going solo then my advice would be to make some competitive friends and car pool.