Thieves caught on video at Worlds, TPCi does nothing

[Mekkah]

I can't believe people who are victim blaming or Gino fanboying.

I find it really awkward that no TPCI folks have posted here. I would really appreciate it if they responded to the questions that were (rightfully so) posted here, such as why this is such a different case from the poop throwing incident, especially considering Gino's history.

 

[Magnechu]

I have had a lot of interactions with Gino - we played our first game against each other at RI States in 2004. I've always gone back and forth on my opinions, but we have always been good to each other in person and online. I have heard many stories on shady things Gino (and crew) have done but have always taken them with a grain of salt. Gino never did anything personally to me, so I have no reason to dislike him. In regards to Jon, I would actually defend him to an extent based on our personal interactions: I like Jon and he has always been a stand-up guy when we played against each other.

That being said, I do find it unfortunate that this situation hasn't been handled differently from the TPCi perspective. Ban, suspensions, punishments, what have you, have been handed out for much less serious offenses and for events more "outside of TPCi's jurisdiction." I haven't read this whole thread, but did anyone bring up Freddy K getting banned for an incident in an airport? What about Martin getting banned? The list goes on.

Regardless of "evidence" or "hard proof" that may or may not be available, TPCi has a reputation and a community environment to uphold. By allowing someone that the community believes to be a cheater and thief to continue attending events, this image is tarnished. It may be unfortunate that social media and the internet allows things like this to spread to so many people, but maybe not. It could go both ways - and I guess it depends on how guilty Gino actually is. By all accounts here, it seems like he is guilty. But regardless, the cat is out of the bag and something needs to be done about it. And the only people that can do that is TPCi. Or the TOs of any given tournament, I guess.

Bottom line is that this is the Pokemon Trading Card Game, a hobby that has one of the greatest communities in the world of gaming. Let's not let that slip away.

 

[losjackal]

TPCi has a policy to keep matters regarding suspensions private. If there is more information to be shared, don't expect it to be posted here in PokeGym.

 

[Swordfish1989]

Since this seems to be coming up frequently, on the topic of leaving your luggage at the hotel, it's actually quite common. Our family loves traveling and we've been all over the world, and we have left our luggage with hotel staff numerous times. However, I will not that every single time without fail, the luggage was either left inside a room only hotel staff have access to, or behind the counter. Never has anything been stolen, and my laptop is always left with the luggage (and my laptop, strangely enough, is rarely under lock & key). I wish the hotel had taken more proper measures to secure their customer's bags, but still the only blame that can be handed out here is to the thieves.

 

[TonySandlin]

Hes clearly watching this thread and hes obviously laughing at it. Take a look at his facbook now. Hes really asking for it.

 

[PokemonTrader]

The better question is, why do you have him on facebook? :-O

I mean if you think he was thievin' and all.

 

[TonySandlin]

Simple search finds him lol I'm not his friend.

 

[BigChuck01]

Hey guys, just your 2002 World Champion Alex Brosseau stopping by to put in his 2 cents, no big deal...

Ok, its kind of a big deal.

Since taking a break from pokemon last year to stabilize my personaife, ive constantly been hit with this feeling of emptiness at nights before bed. I miss the game and I want back in quite badly, but my schedule makes it quite difficult to get to tournaments. Fortunately, I was able to move some stuff around and attend the klaczynski open, my first tournament in over a year. While I did have a great time, id like to point out a few slightly disturbing things that stuck out in my mind:

1. In a match against a 13 year old kid, he would literally shuffle my deck after every search. Not necessarily a bad habbit, but it felt like a lack of trust. Id expect it from a lot of masters and not care, but athis age its sad that hes already paranoid about cheating or has already been exposed to it. (On a side note this kid is awesome and I have no ill feelings toward him)

2. Another 13 year old kid (both of them beat me Btw, I 5-0ed vs masters including beating Dustin Zimmerman on National television but 0-2ed vs the little ones) would utter the words "make a play" every time I took a few seconds to read a card (hadn't played in over a year) which didnt seem right coming from someone so young. Again, a lack of trust and possibilities that hes been exposed to stalling at such a young age. (Again, awesome kid and great player, no problems).

3. In another game I attempted to frost spear a turn after blizzard burning (first tournament in over a year) My opponent informed me that I cant attack, my bad. Ok ill just lazer for the ko or switch and retreat... JUDGE! Its ruled my turn ends immediately. While thats the right ruling, back when I played people let you take that back 100 out of 100 times. (No hard feelings again, im cool with everyone)

My point is, when did this game become so serious? Are there really that many lowlives running around that everyone, including the kids have to be on guard 24/7? This is not an atmosphere that I would like to return to.

my advice to everyone is try and develope a better sense of what kind of personality certain people are going to have. I love that I can essentially peg anyone from a mile away and be right about what kind of person they are 99% of the time. Pick the good ones, associate with them, and stay away from the bad ones.

ive never met Jon before, but Gino? Seriously? People still associate with this guy? At what point in this persons life has he ever done sonething that would give him any sort of credibility? Hes a self proclaimed "thug" and thats what thugs do: they lie, cheat, and steal. All you have to do is take 1 look at this kid to know hes bad news. While theres no absolute proof that he stole the laptop, its pretty safe to assume that its very likely, but my question is why is Mees hanging oug with him in the frist place. If you hang around bad people, bad things will happen. Live and learn.

 

[K2theAblaM]

All we really ask for is consistency when handing out punishments. We've seen players get banned for much, much less. This decision doesn't make sense, like much of the other decisions that have been made recently.

 

[Bolt]

[*]There is clearly something personal going on here between players. They attended a party the night before in Mees' room, and they are targeting his bag the next day. Whatever is going on personally, I find it interesting that in some cases players wish TPCi minded it's own business. But in this case, they want TPCi to reach even further into personal business.

I'd like to point out that it may not be something personal at all. Might've been as simple as Gino seeing Mees put a laptop in his suitcase, then seeing that suitcase the next day.

Names aside, I think this SPECIFIC incident of not issuing a ban based on the theft not taking place "at the World Championships event" sets a VERY dangerous precedent for similar issues at future Pokemon events (I'm interpreting Dave's letter as acknowledging the guilt of a party).

 

[Bilbo Baggins]

Ha, he is watching this thread. Pretty much aimed at my last post. Like the touch of adding the picture of the Macbook too Gino. Very smooth of you...

 

[FincastlePokemon2]

All we really ask for is consistency when handing out punishments. We've seen players get banned for much, much less. This decision doesn't make sense, like much of the other decisions that have been made recently.

I can really sympathize with everyone's frustration on this thread. But I challenge you to consider something further...

As a theoretical exercise - doesTCPi have the responsibility to be "the world's policeman". Where would you find an acceptable line between clear wrongdoing and no consequences from Pokemon? If a regular Pokemon player stole a car, was arrested (or not), bragged about it on Facebook, wrecked the car and tried to get insurance from the wreck - in other words was doing some pretty extensive "bad" things - would TCPi have any business knowing about (or acting on) that information? If you commit tax fraud or counterfit checks, should Pokemon ban you from playing in tournaments?

I hope you all can consider that there might be a firm line here which this incident crossed (even if just barely) that takes it out of the realm of TCPi's jurisdiction. Is it the right line? I certainly don't know enough about the discussions and deliberation which led to their decision to say. But I do believe in "innocent until proven guilty" - even if they aren't really accused of anything.

 

[AnUnown]

I can really sympathize with everyone's frustration on this thread. But I challenge you to consider something further...

As a theoretical exercise - doesTCPi have the responsibility to be "the world's policeman". Where would you find an acceptable line between clear wrongdoing and no consequences from Pokemon? If a regular Pokemon player stole a car, was arrested (or not), bragged about it on Facebook, wrecked the car and tried to get insurance from the wreck - in other words was doing some pretty extensive "bad" things - would TCPi have any business knowing about (or acting on) that information? If you commit tax fraud or counterfit checks, should Pokemon ban you from playing in tournaments?

I hope you all can consider that there might be a firm line here which this incident crossed (even if just barely) that takes it out of the realm of TCPi's jurisdiction. Is it the right line? I certainly don't know enough about the discussions and deliberation which led to their decision to say. But I do believe in "innocent until proven guilty" - even if they aren't really accused of anything.

But *** in the hallway is within that line?

 

[Goldenthumb]

I'd like to point out that it may not be something personal at all. Might've been as simple as Gino seeing Mees put a laptop in his suitcase, then seeing that suitcase the next day.

Names aside, I think this SPECIFIC incident of not issuing a ban based on the theft not taking place "at the World Championships event" sets a VERY dangerous precedent for similar issues at future Pokemon events (I'm interpreting Dave's letter as acknowledging the guilt of a party).

I'll tell you what, ban or no ban I wouldnt have even said anything. I would have waited till I seen Gino and Jon and handed them a beat down. Ofcourse that isnt possible for everyone, but thats how I roll. Dnt let me catch someone taking anything from me or my friends. Pokemon aint that serious to me, so I'll knock someone out across the table if they acting stupid with me, let alone steal. Thats just sleezy grimey stuff right there...

 

[TonySandlin]

I can see where some folks are coming from here with TCPi's responsibility. When I first heard about the feces in the hallway incident, I was more or less annoyed with TCPi stripping away the title of the offender (I think thats what happened. I may be confused with another incident). Although, I think it was poor to claim that he was no longer the champion when he was, I think there should have been at least some sort of penalty. This is a similar case where property has been illegally messed with, yet there is no punishment. The event may have been over, but it was still done in the hotel where many players had stayed for the event, much like the poop incident. If TCPi is to stay consistent, they should remove Gino's champion title. Of course, since I didnt agree with that the first time, I think that would be stupid. Either way, though, there should be some sort of punishment.

 

[pikkdogs]

I'm really sorry this happened to you Mees. I do not know Gino, and I can't speak for him. But, most people in this game are very nice, you just happened to run into one bad apple and unfortunately they did it in a foreign country and then left that country. It was just a very unique situation, and my heart goes out to ya.

However, what do you think TPCI should do about it? They can't go punishing players for crimes that they weren't charged for. If Gino was caught by Canadian police and charged, than I could see TPCI stepping in and saying that they can't allow a highly ranked player to show such of a character flaw without some discipline. But since he wasn't charged and it wasn't during a tourney, there's nothing they can do.

I am really sorry this happened, but its not TPCI's place to enact justice on your behalf. Gino got away with the perfect crime, tip your hat to him, and move on.

 

[Moss Factor]

pikkdogs: actually TPCi can go around "punishing players" outside the letter of the law. The VPD is worried about enforcing their laws, not maintaining the brand of Pokemon; conversely, TPCi has the brand to worry about and doesn't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this happened. E.g., is it a crime to stack your deck? Can you to to jail for that? No! But you sure can be banned from Pokemon!

The question I still can't get my head around is how TPCi can not see the obvious negative effect this incident has on their brand. Regardless of precedents, in simple practical terms this incident looks really bad for the game. If players don't feel safe, that there will be repercussions to thieves who take advantage of players from different countries, then they might just not show up.

TPCi isn't responsible for the theft taking place, but they have a responsibility to act to defend the game's players from people who would abuse them at tournaments.

They invite these people out to the same place and put them together in the same hotel and act they're not responsible for player safety? Of course they are. And while the game itself is played during tournament hours in the convention center, our demands for safety extend beyond the space directly above the playmat and for the 30 min + 3 to at the very least the hotel where Mees et al were invited by TPCi to stay.

They were only at that hotel to play Pokemon -- what kind of a message does TPCi want to send to players? That they're on our side at these large travel tournaments or they aren't?

 

[espeon200]

You know, this is really a lose/lose situation for TPCi. We see what happens when they choose not to ban the offenders, but what would the thread have been like if they did ban Jon and Gino? TPCi would not comment on the reason for the bans, speculation would run rampant, and the mob with their pitchforks would be yelling about TPCi banning a well known player.

People are going to be mad either way, which has to be really frustrating.

Going by past bannings, I think that Gino and Jon should be banned, but I remember complaints about wanting a nicer TPCi who didn't ban for sneezing the wrong way. Unfortunately, you can't have both.

 

[Swordfish1989]

I guess having his bag in his hand, walking out the door is not proof these days? Man, I could get away with so many things now....

- - - Updated - - -



You either go out a hero, or stay in long enough to become a villain..

Wow, he really did 'quote' you on his FB... way to turn himself in even further.

 

[Tapin]

As a theoretical exercise - doesTCPi have the responsibility to be "the world's policeman".

The problem I have with this logic, given this particular incident is that TPCi has already chosen to assume that role themselves, as pointed out repeatedly in this thread. The inconsistency is baffling, and deeply concerning.

If TPCi wants to issue a statement that says "From now on, we're only going to mete out punishment for incidents happening on the grounds of our tournaments during the normal operation of the tournament itself", then (the next time something like this happens) I don't think there'd be nearly this level of confusion and outrage. But that's not what they've done. What Mr. Schwimmer has done here is say "incidents that reflect poorly on TPCi and get immediately publicized will be dealt with severely; incidents that reflect poorly on TPCi and don't get publicity will be swept under the rug". Which... is a cop-out, plain and simple.