A True Active Position?

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by Whicker, Mar 12, 2011.

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  1. Whicker

    Whicker New Member

    I was at OK States today and this situation occurred. During one of my games I opened with Old Amber. Apparently, at this point, one judge that saw my game didn't think that I had an active Pokemon (honestly, I think this was because I had a fossil in play and the judge didn't recognize it as a Pokemon), and pointed it out to another judge who confronted me by asking "What's your active pokemon?" I point to the Old Amber and my opponent acknowledges that it's my active. The judge then claims that it isn't put in the "true active position" because I keep my active pokemon closer to my deck than to the middle of the play area. He at first said it was confusing to my opponent (which it obviously wasn't) and then changed to say that it was because we had a new judging staff that didn't understand my "play style."
    Now, I have been playing this game for ten years now and this is where I have always put my active pokemon. I do not know why; I guess my 11 year old OCD self thought it looked neater. In any case, during those years I have never once had an opponent express confusion over which Pokemon was my active and I try to keep my field as neat as possible with the active clearly in front of the others so that judges walking by are not confused either. When I confronted the judge about it, he claimed that this rule has always been in place and he didn't know why the judges never corrected me "down here." However, I have made top cut at Regionals and Nationals and have had judges from all over the place presiding over my matches and not one has said a thing. In fact, in 2006 this very same judge watched one of my top cut matches at Regionals and, of course, didn't say anything then. Because of this, I have never bothered to change what I was doing or even think that it was incorrect in any way.
    So I guess my question is: Is there really a rule where the active must be in front of the middle benched pokemon (the judge made it seem as if it were an actual rule that could incur a penalty)? If so, then why haven't I been corrected in all my years and why is it a rule if I have played competitively for years without it ever being a problem? Is this something that you would point out as a judge?
    I ask this because both my opponent and I felt that the judge was purposely trying to antagonize me and he suggested to me to report this judge to P!P, but I do not want to take action without knowing everything.
     
  2. waynegg

    waynegg CotD Editor<br>Forum Moderator

    This is all it says:

    It doesn't say centered, just "separated from". The playmat which comes with the Theme Decks and even Promotional Playmats allude to where the cards should go, but the rules don't say that at all. I would wager that tournament rules override a playmat.

    But at the same time, in the spirit of the game (you know the first rule people forget about), you should have your active centered in the game area. It's what is customary and is the way everyone else who plays Pokemon plays it. That way when you face a new player they aren't distracted by how you set up your cards. For that you could be called for gaming or something and receive a penalty for it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2011
  3. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    Is this such a big deal to make a thread about?
    So ONE judge staff had a problem and obviously loads others didn't. It's not that difficult to get. When we play trainers, we generally put them to the right of the active. We also generally lay search results there (ie mid-Collector), so if you were searching your deck and it appeared there was a trainer in the "search area" and there was no pokemon in the center, perhaps it would be of concern.

    Let's say someone bumps into your deck and flips a bunch of cards in a pile. I wouldn't want my active there if that occured for fear of a warning/gl technicality. Things are apart for a reason on the playing field. Having an active near the deck would be akin to having your prizes next to your deck. Same reasons, mon.

    You could have just said "okay" and moved your active over an inch, then looked in the tournament rules. You're not going to lose a game because you can't stand your active in the center.
     
  4. KazamBolt

    KazamBolt Active Member

    Hey, I had to learn to switch my deck and my discard pile's position this year from what I played like for around 8 years. No big deal really.
     
  5. thisguy

    thisguy New Member

    Sounds like the Judge was just on a power trip, or was having a hectic day and taking it out on whatever non-existent technicality he could find.
     
  6. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    Jordan, don't make an issue out of a non-issue. AFAIK, you didn't even get a penalty for this, and it's an active judge's duty to address unusual appearances on the board anyways.

    The answer is clear-cut; the solution, resolute.
     
  7. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    I wasn't there, but I understand the judge's position on this.

    Normally, you have a Pokemon card in your Active position. The fact that it's "off center" makes the play area slightly unclear, but since it's a Pokemon, there are enough visual cues to make it clear enough that it's your active.

    Now, add to the confusion of the Active being "off", that it is also not a Pokemon, but a Trainer card.

    Now you have two things confusing the game state.

    It's a fair call by the judge.
    You have made the game state difficult for a judge passing by to understand clearly.
    The judge asked you to clarify the game state.
    That should be the end of the story.

    I must be a hard-***. I have asked players in the Top Cut at Nationals to clean up the game state to make it clear, including centering their Active. One player had in the finals had his active so far off center, it was adjacent to his deck!

    Your game state is not just for you and your opponent. It must also be clear to staff.
    If something goes wrong, you expect that same staff to unerringly correct what went wrong and fix your (or your opponent's) mess.

    Give them a break and put your active in the center where it's supposed to be.
     
  8. rokman

    rokman <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    I don't think I could do that...... and pointing this out makes me understand Whicker's frustration. (Because I currently play deck below discard. I've always done that, because it looks like what's in my discard pile is on my bench, ie a pokemon that just got KO'd)

    If a judge asked me to swap my deck and discard pile to clearly follow the playmat's style, I'd tell him he should be saying the same thing to EVERY player in the tournament because their prizes should be set up in a vertical 2-2-2 way.

    So, Pokepop, does that change anything?
     
  9. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Does what change anything?
    I made no comment on the deck/discard placement.
    One's face down, one's face up.
    I can tell the difference. I don't bother with top or bottom.
    The only thing that I care about is that deck and discard are on one side, prizes and Lost Zone are on the other.

    Some judges do enforce top and bottom placement.
    They can discuss that if they want to.
     
  10. secretsof2113

    secretsof2113 Moderator Trader Feedback Mod

    As a judge, we were running into that problem yesterday. Some judges will enforce sloppy play. We had a LOT of it in the Junior/Senior division, and had to give out a lot of various penalties for things (the sloppy field caused many misplays throughout the day). At a few points in the day, I had to fix play areas, discard piles, benches, etc, because some were just letting it get out of control. Think about it from our standpoint. We walk by while you are playing, and we want to be able to tell what is going on. If we can't tell, we're going to approach and try to find out.
     
  11. Austino

    Austino New Member

    Coming from someone who's played against Whicker more than once, where he places his active is only offset from the "middle" position that most people use. It isn't confusing in the slightest. You definitely know which pokemon is the active vs which are benched. I think the only issue is that it was a fossil (or trainer) which would only be confusing to a judge passing by, but definitely not the players, which seems to be where it's most important. If the players have an issue, let them get the judge. Otherwise it seems irrelevant where he wants to keep his active as long as both players know where it is. Slightly closer to his deck really doesn't seem like an issue to me.
     
  12. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    Austino: I refer back to waynegg's quote from the rules:

     
  13. Scubadude

    Scubadude New Member

    Are people really rule sharking about where you position your board now people need to relax its not that big of a deal.
     
  14. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Did you not read the thread?
    This is not people rule sharking.
    This is judges enforcing a clear game state so that they can easily see what's going on.
     
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