Banette(Article Now Includes BanCario and BanBliss)

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by ~`Flygon`~, Apr 17, 2008.

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  1. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    OK,I loved this deck and always wanted to do a article on it since I havent seen any.Ok here i my article.

    Author= ~`Flygon`~
    Date= April 17,2008
    Format= HP-GE
    Deck=Banette SW

    Pokemon:15
    4 Shuppet CG
    4 Banette Sw
    1 Solrock GE
    2 Lunatone GE
    2 Baltoy GE
    2 Claydol GE

    Trainers:
    3 Quick Ball
    2 Master Ball
    2 Night Maintenance
    3 Plus power
    1Strength Charm
    3 Warp Point
    2 Roseanne's Research
    1 Holon Mentor
    2 Celios/Bebe's Search
    2 Copycat
    2 Team Galactic Wager
    3 TV Reporter
    1 Scott
    2 Crystal Beach
    2 Lake Boundary

    Energy:13
    4 Multi
    7 Psychic
    2 Double Rainbow


    [​IMG]

    This is the main attacker of the deck and is the reason the deck is so successful as it is. Banette SW has two great attacks that make it so fast and versatile.

    .Ghost Head-for no energy he can put up to seven damage counters on a pokemon.This is near broke for this pokemon considering the fact his first and second attack go hand and hand together for the deck. This attack can OH KO any starter they have(Pachi,Absol SW.etc)

    PP Spiteful Pain 40+-it can do up to 80 for 2 energy if you have another Banette in the discard pile and then you shuffle the one in your discard into your deck. This is constant recycle and make using Banette over and over again pretty much a very lovely card. Since Lunatone SW is in the deck,it is easy to get a T2 80 with Banette.

    [​IMG]

    This is the starter for this deck and the reason its so fast. For a colorless energy you can search your deck that evolves from shuppet and evolve. Nice attack since you need to get Banettes setup quick as possible and whats better than T1???Only drawback to this pokemon is that it has only 40 HP and is double weak to Dark.Still a great card and the best starter for this deck.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Lunasol was always a great addition to Speed Ban in the DX-DP format,and it only helps this Banette deck also. Lunatones "Gravity Change" Poke-Power makes it where you can discard ANY card from your hand,and if you have Solrock in play,draw a card. This makes it easy to discard Banettes without waiting for them to be KO ed or discarded by just Supporters,and also draw into another card only thinning your deck more when Solrock is in play. Its a great addition to deck,no necessary,but one of the best combos for this deck.

    [​IMG]

    Claydol,what can I say about Claydol,it is one of the most game changing cards to come out of Great Encounters and it only gives more speed and draw to a deck that has speed and draw. He is for draw purposes and does a good job after you run through your deck with a small fishing engine. Great addition to this deck.

    Strategy: The strategy of the deck is to basically speed beatdown your opponent. Shuppet start makes this possible since you need to have Banette setup in the first few turns of the game. Doing T2 70 Ghost Head or T2 80 Spiteful Pain is what you do majority of the games you play and it happens very often. Setting up Lunasol on the bench along with other Banettes to take the place of another one is all the setup you need and claydol GE makes that possible with enough draw power to make your bench setup possible.

    Banette is the main attacker in this deck and does a great job. Its more of a early game attacker,so don't try to go into late rounds of the game since it wont get easier but depending on what deck you play,it will only get harder and more hard to win the game. Banette does not have a hard time of recovering,just not misplaying and time with the deck makes it a strong deck to recover with.

    Techs:

    Gyarados MT
    - This is one of the best techs for this deck to handle the hard matchup against Magmortar/Infernape. I love this card personally and is a 120 stage 1 tank that can do a max of 140 for just one of any energy.

    Jolteon *-This is a great tech to kill a stuck Banette you have active and to help with the Gyarados MT tech to get energies on it.Its only one drop most of the game and just becomes bench space unless you added Super Scoop Ups,which does not happen most of the time and becomes a free prize.

    Dugtrio CG- This is also to help against any Magmortar match up,because it protects your weak Shuppets and anything else your don't want hit by a sniper.It has a sniping attack of its own that can do 30 to any pokemon they have which can help when warping and needed to setup a future knockout late or mid game.

    Minun SW - This is if you don't have any Claydol setup and need something to draw 2 for you when something is knocked out. Its a decent card and its power helps alot since its a basic. Weak HP make this a easy snipe for Magmortar tho and his attack isn't much since we don't have Pluse in the deck.

    Cessation Crystal - This used to be more a staple but isn't used in most variants on Banette since you use powers from Lunasol and Claydol. Still usable if needed even with them in the deck.


    Match-ups:

    Gardilade Variants:

    Since you out speed them and their weak to Banette,this match up is one of the easiest ones you could have in a game. You can one shot Gardevior with just Spiteful Pain, and Gallade takes either a Lake Boundary or 2 PP's form spiteful. You will disrupt their setup and gain a prize lead early in the game even if they have Absol starts. Baleful wind wont hurt much since you can ghost head it for the Ko in one turn. Raiding you can get annoying and but still can ko Absol with Spiteful pain with a plus power. Gardie's Psychic Lock may hurt Lunatone/Claydol for a turn,but Banette can take care of any Gardy they bring up if you hold Banettes with TV Reporter waiting. Furret starts are a little harder since they won't ever attack with it early game since they will setup instead. Resistance helps also.Crystal Beach/Cessation/Banette wins you this match up more than likely every time.


    Absol w/Mult-DarkStarter:55-45
    Pachi Starter:60-40
    Furret Starter:60-40

    Blissey Variants:

    Blissey is a tank and it takes 2 shots most of the time to Ko it alot of the time. If they have Holon FF with Fighting,this match up becomes alot harder and they can hit as normal and don't need alot of energy to do so_Other than that, its more your match up even tho you have near the same speed, you have resistance and can put out more damage output early game and does not take alot of energy to do more damage.T2 80 makes this easier and Playing Solrock right with Sol Charge and Lunatone to get rid of their stadiums(if played) makes this much easier.Out of all the games Ive played Blissey,ive won majority of the time besides to Str8 Blissey played by John Silverstro(who is great with the deck).

    Blissey Str8:50-50
    Blissey/Delcatty:60-40
    Blissey/Weavile:50-50
    Blissey/Electivire:65-35
    Blissey/Lucario:70-30

    Magmortar Variants:

    OK lets just say this isn't in your favor at all. Magmortar can heal and has 110 HP to try and deal with in the game which only makes it harder,then Magmortar Lv.X who can snipe for 100 and Burn for 3 is alot to put up with since it has energy acceleration. BMC is also since Blaziken has 130 HP like Mag Lv.X and can snipe for 80. This matchup is really hard,but with the right techs can become very winnable if you play smart and don't misplay.They like abusing Scrambles or going Aggro going against Banette,so play to their style and just go AggroBan till you can warp point for easy KO's.

    BMC:45-55 w/ Dugtrio/Gyarados Tech:55-45
    Magmortar/Typholosion: 45-55 w Techs: 60-40
    Absol/Magmortar w Multi:40-60 w Techs:55-45

    Electivire:

    This is a easy matchup since you can out speed them in every possible. Cessation Crystal is great in this deck and kills vire accel. 120 a turn is hard to deal with if you don't ko them back with charms/pps. Also watchout for Flygon d Ex,he is a tank and can hurt all those shuppets if he just stays active for turns on in. Ko Buzzes early and tranpichs with warps and knock out castform early and play wager when they get to many in their hand. You will gain a prize lead if you knockout castform and play wager at the right time. Its like Speed Ban vs Metanite back in the DX-on format. Speed is key to this win and disruption.

    60-40

    Quickturne:

    Ok form the information I got from Prize card,this matchup is Banettes favor.1.aftet you Ko their first Turne,they become inconsistent to recover from it and you stay constant with your 80 and revenging Kos better than they can.Especially if you go first,its basicially down hill for them since you will have a prize lead and be able to one shot anything they bring up,which will be more Kricturnes.I didnt test the matchup that much,but IM pretty sure Prize_Card is right about.

    65-35

    Gator Variants:

    This isn't a hard match up as you make think. They usually start with Stantler or Pachi,Ghost Head and just get rolling. Gator has 130 HP which is hard to one shot with even PPs. Knocking out Croconaws and playing warps to kill their claydols or bench helps since they have a hard time setting up with catty or claydol. Some of these Gator variants play Gardy for supporters,knocking him out early helps and not playing alot of supporters help also. Since you out speed them,this is in your favor 6/10 times.

    60-40

    Dark Wing Duck:

    OK this deck is all dark and can basically one shot your Banettes with Murkrow,but you can one shot them with Banette also. Absol starts kill you if you dont setup,if you go first then its easier,but you have to play wager and win alot of the time in this game.Krow is a beast against this deck but you can one shot it with a charm or PP. Not in your favor I can say but a winnnable match up.

    40-60

    Rogue Decks:

    50-50

    You just have to out speed and play your best.

    Showings of this deck:

    1 Regional Win(Senior Division)
    4 State Wins
    Numerous Top4-Top 8 Top 16s

    Its alot more. Now to the next type of Banette variant.Not a well know variant,but a played one none the less.

    Bancario( Banette/Lucario)

    List provided by pichu bro rox.

    4-4 Banette SW
    4-3-1 Lucario DP/Lucario Lv.X

    4 birch
    4 pokenav
    4 great ball
    3 pokedex handy
    3 dusk ball
    2 master ball
    3 quick ball
    2 warp point
    3 crystal beach
    2 night maintenence
    2 cess crystal

    7 fighting
    4 psychic
    4 multi
    _______

    [​IMG]

    Lucario and Banette. A great combination to counter that pesky Darkrai deck you've been facing or any dark deck that may give you troubles for your poor Banny. His energy differences don't get in the way of some synergy between the two pokemon. Lucario can be the main attacker for a lot of match ups you may have,and he is a decent attacker to go along with Banette. Colorless lets you do 30 and get through resistance,which what you may face against Honckrow variants. For 2 fighting energy,he can do 40/20 to the bench which is what Banette needs,a small sniper that can help setup future Kos later in the game.90 HP isn't bad for a stage one and can get attacking just like Banette can.This is more of a main attacker,but sometimes a great support attacker depending on what your facing during a game.

    [​IMG]
    Lucario Lv.X is what helps the deck out a great deal. He has 110,and can do 80 for three. His power makes him invulnerable for a turn.He is a great attacker to have mid game to drop and let you get off a extra shot or a extra KO you may need. Only drawback to this Lv.X is that he is double weak to Psychic(Gardy/Banettes/Cress) and his attack hurts him if you don't use it when you use the power. He is still a great attacker and can be a life saver in a tough crisis mid to late game.

    Strategy: Mostly to disrupt your opponent early with either Banette or Lucario,both are good early game attackers and can do the necessary damage to get the job done. Lucario is a mid game attacker with his Level X form since he can become a shield for a turn and can do 80 also. Spreading often early game is the key to a lot of victories for this deck. Lucario takes care of Banette's darkness weakness,Banette takes care of Lucario's psychic weakness that it may face during some match ups.I never understood the synergy obetween the two,but covering weaknesses seems to be one of the main points of the deck a lot of the times.

    Matchups:

    Blissey Variants:

    OK either way you put it,its in your favor. 1.you have their weakness early game and 2.you have resistance to them early game. They have to setup a Blissey with Holon FF with fire and fightning and they wont be able to setup both quick enough to deal with your speed and damage output from Lucario or Banette. One of your easiest matchups during any variant.

    Blissey Str8: 60-40
    Blissey/Weavile: 60-40
    Blissey/Electivire: 70-30
    Blissey/Delcatty: 70-30
    Blissey/Banette: 50-50
    Blissey/Lucario:60-40

    Magmortar Variants:

    Ok,either way you slice it,this is the toughest matchup you will have even with Lucario Lv.X. Magmortar is still a tank even if you spread early damage.You will outspeed them in the early game,but you must find a way to lock in crystal beach or a cessation crystal so they cant recover as easily,healing will hurt you if you don't go aggressive early and don't let up. anytime during the game. Its a winnable matchup,but still not in your favor.

    40-60 with techs 50-50

    Gator Variants:

    OK you outspeed them,and with Lucario spreading early,then you can get Gator into range from a one shot from Banette. You can gain early advantage if you go aggro early. Speed is key the matchup since they can probably OHKO anything you bring up. Some of these variants have Gardy tech,which will give them a supporter advantage,so try to lock in cessations if possible,since thats key to their draw and attack power. Other than that,its not a hard matchup at all from my playtesting with any variant of Banette. Just play smart and do what you have to do early game.

    60-40

    Other matchups coming soon.

    BanBliss(Banette/Blissey)

    Article and List is done by Blaziken1111

    Pokemon:
    4 Shuppet CG
    4 Banette SW
    4 Chansey
    4 Blissey
    1 Minum
    1 Sableye CG
    ~18~

    Trainers:
    2 Holon Mentor
    2 Rosanne’s Research
    4 Celio’s Network
    4 TV Reporter
    3 Castaway
    2 Cessation Crystal
    2 Night Maintenance
    2 Strength Charm
    4 Plus Power
    2 Team Galatic’s Wager
    ~26~

    Energy:
    4 Boost
    12 Psychic
    ~16~


    Pokemon

    Chansey:
    http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=31331&c=154

    This card’s purpose is to evolve into a Blissey. If you do need some time however you could try to use its attack Scrunch hopefully survive an attack from an opponent.


    Blissey:
    http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=31279&c=154

    This card is a tank. With 130 HP it will be hard for your opponent to take Blissey down. Its attack Happy Chance is very good and it keeps getting better the longer Blissey lasts. You can get energy out of the discard and attach it to Blissey before the attack does damage so it would do even more damage.

    Shuppet:
    http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=17980&c=94

    This card is very good because you can use its attack ascension to get a Banette out very quickly so you don’t have to worry about using up your supporters and other trainers to get out a Banette and you can also set up other pokemon instead.

    Banette:
    http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=31871&c=162

    This card is very good in the beginning of the game. Hopefully you used shuppet’s attack ascension to get a Banette out on your first turn. Once you have a Banette active you have 2 choices of an attack. You can use its first attack Ghost Head or its second attack Spiteful pain. Ghost Head should be used when Banette doesn’t have enough energy to do Spiteful Pain or if there isn’t a Banette in the discard and you need to do more then 40 damage. If you can use Spiteful pain then you should use it if you have a Banette in the discard.

    Minum:
    http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=31880&c=162

    This card is only used for its Pokepower. With Banette your opponent will be knocking out Banette quickly and so you will at least be able to draw 2 cards.

    Sableye:
    http://pokegym.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=11741&c=94

    This card is great and can easily be teched into many decks because of its attack and power. First its Pokepower Excavate can be used in many ways. First if you need to get a Banette or a basic energy in the discard you could try to use its power and hopefully the card you need is on top. Secondly you can use Excavate to see what you are going to draw on your next turn and if it’s something you don’t want you could discard it. And finally Excavate can be used to thin out your deck so the chances of drawing the cards you need are higher. Next its attack Disable is good because you can stall with it. You can also mess up your opponent if he plays a deck that has a main attacker that only has one attack like Blissey for example.

    Trainers:

    Celio: To get the pokemon from my deck that are needed.
    Rosanne: To get basics and basic energy
    Holon Mentor: Get basics and also discard Banettes and Energy
    TV Reporter: Draw/ discard cards like Banette and energy
    Castaway: To get supporters, basic energy and pokemon tools like Cessation crystal and Strength charm

    Cessation Crystal: This card should be used carefully because this deck does run powers that could help you. This card should be attached to a Banette when you use ghost head because then they would be forced to knock you out which should help you or to a Blissey because then it would be hard to get rid of it.
    Night Maintenance: This card is to get your pokemon in the discard back.
    Strength Charm: This card can help you because sometimes an extra 10 damage can change the game.
    Plus Power: This card is good because with Banette not usually doing a lot of damage and also since it can’t one shot a gallade this card comes in to get an easier and quicker kill. This card is also good with Blissey because at times Blissey isn’t doing a lot of damage.
    Wager: This card is a very fun card. This card not only makes your opponent shuffle his hand into his deck but also it can get you a new hand if you need it.

    Energy

    Psychic Energy: This is the main energy of the deck. It’s used because Banette needs psychic energy to use its second attack.

    Boost Energy: This card is one of Blissey’s best friends. This is a Triple strength charm when attached to a Blissey.

    Stratagy

    The basic strategy of the deck is to start with a shuppet and do a lot of damage early game with Banette and then once it dies you come up with a powered up Blissey and take more prizes with it and you continue to bring up Blisseys or Banettes to attack and take your prizes.

    Match ups


    VS Gardylade/ Plox
    This is a probably the toughest matchup. What you have to do is try do go agro Banette and constently slam at them with your banettes. Try not to bring up a blissey because it’s a easy prize for them because all they have to do is flip 2 prizes to kill it. Also Lake boundary can help you if you are using your banettes because you can OHKO almost everything in their deck but it could hurt you because then a Gallade only has to flip 1 prize to kill a blissey.
    65-35

    VS Magsol
    This game is still a tough matchup but as long as you don’t have bad luck you should win most of your matches. If you go first and get a shuppet start then you are in luck because you can kill an absol or magmar with ghost head and they don’t have a chance to evolve and there is also a chance that they don’t have a basic on the bench so you win. The key is to bring up Banette early game but after they get a magmortar up bring up blissey.
    65-35

    VS T2 Lukario
    This is an easy game because you can get a lot of kills with Banette especially early game.
    70-30

    VS Hurricane
    This match up is also one of the easiest ones because if you can play down a Cess. Crystal and out speed them you basicaly win. Just don’t let them set up.
    70-30

    VS Empoleon
    This is a tough game also because your shuppets, minum, and sableye on your bench are easy prizes for an Empoleon. Also Empoleon has a lot of HP so it’s hard to take down. Just get out your blissey because Empoleon can’t OHKO a blissey either so if you out speed Empoleon you have the advantage.
    55-45

    VS Blissey variants
    These are going to be hard games because they should be as fast as you are and so most of your games are going to be close. You can trade of blows with your Blissey and also Banette has resistience to it.
    50-50


    Thanx for pichu bro rox and Blaziken1111 for the lists and the info on the deck.
    Ok,thats my article and I hope you enjoy

    ~`Flygon`~
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
  2. Flygon999

    Flygon999 New Member

    Why do you need Holon Mentor or TV Reporter when you have Solrock to discard cards? There's only 4 Banettes in the deck. Add in 1 more Solrock and then throw away all of those discarding cards. (excluding Solrock/Lunatone).
     
  3. afstandopleren

    afstandopleren New Member

    True, you don't need so many discarders. You only have 4 cards that you want in the discard pile so why bother putting in so many.

    Try to replace NM with TSD. You don't want to search for a few turns before finnaly finding Banette. Plus, this also helps with any defeated LunaSol and the faster Banette discard.
     
  4. ashinto

    ashinto New Member

    i played a deck exactly like this at regionals. it even had the same pokemon, or those were the only pokemon i saw. i almost lost, thank god i was playing a dark type deck. i almost lost the game because his set up was a bit quicker, and i didn't get the best start. i won after taking out his 4 shuppets and i bet the time he would get a TSD (if he played one), he would have already lost against my Darkrai Lv.X. very good and fast deck, but it's not my style.
     
  5. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    -1 PP, +1 charm?
     
  6. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    Flygon999 mentor is 4 gett 3 basics not just for discard and tvr is 4 draw,u need it u don't don't always have lunatone so u need another way to discard,u should know that u have to have other options to discard,thanx 4 the suggestion.

    Ryan yea I will edit when I use my comp,replying from my sidekick,anything else??
     
  7. pichu bros. rox

    pichu bros. rox New Member

    No Pachi? It works like that? Need to try it now.

    My suggestion would be to take out the Solrock and put in a Minun because 2>1
     
  8. Gowk

    Gowk New Member

    Interesting Deck. Looks very fun to play. I enjoy decks like this. Incase of liability, can i use this deck, i may or may not?

    I would love to play a deck like this. The one problem i see, and has been stated by others, is the over use of discarding trainers. You have so many trainers to get the cards you want, or to recycle, while most of that is covered by Banette. I understand your concern about needing those cards fast, but still, it may be to many.

    Gowk
     
  9. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    if you put more than 1 varient it will be more likely to be put as an archetype or feature article
     
  10. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    What other variants are their than this banette??? Its banettes with techs like wat madhatter had,artimethic which I think is a different type of deck anyway since it focuses on a different stragedy all together.if you can name some I can add on and make the article with more information.Thanx

    3 tvr
    1 mentor

    Isn't 2 many discard trainers,u need to play those,u don't play profs oak or stevens,its about a controlled hand and discarding when needed,u have to play the deck to understand.thanx
     
  11. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    banette/blissey

    lucario/banette
    and solo banette have all had at least some success

    i'd say solo banette is the least playable but if you put at least 2 varients it will look REALLY professional
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
  12. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    I will put banbliss since it has had some moderate success but lucario banette is the least playable since u have energy difference and give gardy a advantage.

    Banette lunasol has had the most success so its the main view but will add banbliss.
     
  13. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    the only reason i said banette lucario is that gino lombardi t8 with it and to get a deck to archetypes section you must have at least t8 success
     
  14. mila

    mila New Member

    Against Gator is like 30-70 in Gator's favor.
     
  15. pichu bros. rox

    pichu bros. rox New Member

    Here in Texas Steven E has used BanCario since Cities and won 2 States and got 2nd at Regionals with it.
     
  16. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    banette isn't that bad against gator though it's a tougher macthup, but i've never lost to it with my list that didn't even have claydoll, you outspeed them and gator lacks the ability to topdeck a single card that can tip the match in their favor

    since i've used claydol i haven't tested the gator matchup because the only person in my metagame to play it was my gf and i had plenty of practice against it but she don't even play that anymore, it loses to gardy so bad and when i played gardy that means she loses to me so she dropped gator like a bad habit,

    to pichu bros. rox, yeah bancario isn't that bad, i never tryed it but when i got stomped by quick darkness decks at states i wished i would have used cario with it, but in retrospect claydol and a pluspower kills a darkrai pretty embarrassingly, and the energy flows a lot better, plus claydols in there for draw in the first place it's just a plus that it covers your weakness, which darkness still sees a lot of play but honestly mostly at the bottom tables so unless you get paired with one in the first round or you lose the first 2 rounds yo uprob wont have to worry about them
     
  17. Rambo1000

    Rambo1000 New Member

    even with direct magmortar counters the matchup vs. mag is never better than 40-60
     
  18. pichu bros. rox

    pichu bros. rox New Member

    ^I was wondering that too. Blaze GE snipes Claydol or Lunatone, Magortar X takes 3 hits to KO, while 1HKOing all your Pokemon, etc.
     
  19. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    i'm not going to run boundary, banette can ohko gardy anyway, and with 4 pluspowers it should be easy taking down a gallade IMO (don't care if you agree) battle frontier is much more realistic use of space with all the blastoise d techs around, i know that the speed of banette takes care of blastoise to some extent but i'm either dropping beach or boundary because if i can't beat gardy with this deck theres little to no point in playing it

    if anyone has an opinion on whether i should drop beach or boundary, i'm all ears and i could go either way depending on a good argument

    as for the mag matchup i agree that it's still not in banettes favor even with techs to make the matchup easier but it's winnable and there's always the factor of luck which can really tip any matchup in banette's favor, that's a key element to it's success, that's just how i see it
     
  20. ~`Flygon`~

    ~`Flygon`~ New Member

    Why wouldn't u play beach and boundary,boundary is needed in the deck even if u can ohko,u can't without boundary against gallade without 2 pps,which u can't search 4 but can with scott for boundary.

    Someone send me a list of bancario since I haven't seen one and don't wanna post a terrible list 4 it.

    I've played mag matchup until my eyes bleed,gyarados and dugtrio techs make all the difference during the game early.it at most would be 50 50 if u have played banette as much as I have.

    When does banette have to 3 shot it,it does 80 it dies then another 80 if its the lvx,I've ohkoed regular mags with a charm and 2 pps which u can get.ill change the matchup but those 2 techs help alot
     
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