Bebe's Search vs. Ceilio's Network

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by KAZUTO!!!, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Well, this is something I've been debating over recently - Bebe's or Ceilio's? Up until GE's release, Ceilio's has obviously been the superior of the two - same effect that Bebe's has, but without a drawback. The only thing Bebe's had over Ceilio's was that Bebe's was much cheaper and more common.

    However, when GE was released, we got a certain card called Claydol. As you all know, Claydol changed the game. It is used in pretty much every competetive deck, except for decks that focus on Beach/Cessation lockdown. Claydol is the reason this thread was even made.

    Bebe's helps Claydol more then Ceilio's. You lose an extra card, so you could lose 2 cards, instead of 1 card from Ceilio's, and so Claydol draws more cards, and thus speeds through your deck quicker. That one card could be the difference between winning and losing. Say you use Ceilio's, and you Cosmic Power - draw 2. Okay, you need a Rare Candy... you get an Energy and a Roseanne's Research. You lose, and you look at the top card of your deck... Rare Candy! BUT, you could also have Bebe's, and you just Cosmic Power'd, and you need every card in your hand in order to win, but you also need a Gallade to take the last Prize. You need to use Bebe's, but you need every card in order to win! Candy, Ralts, Scramble, Bebe's, Warp Point, and Cessation Crystal (they can Telepass Roseanne's in your discard, and stay alive, and they told you they have Candy/Gardy/DRE in hand). So, you have to lose, and if you used Ceilio's, you would've won!

    Now, both of those scenarios will likely never happen. But the point is - they COULD. And you don't want to go to the Grinder, and in a crucial game where the winner will Top Cut and the loser won't, and you lose due to not playing one or the other... losing your possible seat in Worlds... yeah. Probally won't happen... but you never know. :rolleyes:

    SO, I want to know what you think is the better of the two, and WHY.

    Discuss.
     
  2. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    Bebe's lowers your chances with Claydol. I usually only have 2 cards or so in my hand, one that I want to keep. Bebe's limits me more as far as Claydol goes.
     
  3. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    You only have two cards on average in your hand? Really? I have 4-6... lol.

    By T2, which is the turn you want Claydol out by, you probally will have more then 2 cards in hand - and this turn is one of the most crucial in the game IMO. On T2, wins and loses are decided, and your set up depends on T2. Claydol makes this set up MUCH more consistent - and perhaps that one card will be that key Candy, Gardevoir, etc. That's the reason why Bebe's is played. After T2, it's all about getting backup attackers out, and Claydol helps with this, too. And Bebe's helps Claydol with this job. Ceilio's doesn't.
     
  4. ShadowGuard

    ShadowGuard <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    In a normal situation, Bebe is better for Claydol, but it often happens that you need most of your cards.

    Another problems is Absolade (which is still played, I faced it in both semifinals and finals of my national championships). If your hand is down to two cards, you can't Bebe for Claydol and then Cosmic Power, but with Celio you can.

    Actually I play a mix of Bebe and Celio because I like to have more than 4 searchers anyway.

    Another thing to mention is, any deck that runs ex-techs (Jirachi ex, Absol ex etc) should have Bebe of course.
     
  5. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Shadow Guard - I agree that a mix of Bebe's and Ceilio's is probally the best... but more often then not, I don't have room. If I had room, I'd run either 4 Ceilio's and 2 Bebe's, or 4 Bebe's and 2 Ceilio's, depends on the deck and Claydol reliance. However, I only have room for four search cards - 4 Bebe's or 4 Ceilio's.

    I also agree that any deck that runs EXs should run Bebe's, instead of Ceilio's.

    And, finally, yes, Bebe's sometimes hurts Claydol more then helps it... but it helps it more often then hurts it!
     
  6. Magnechu

    Magnechu Active Member

    Really depends on the deck. I know some of my Claydol decks have a lot more "dead" cards (at times) than others. Many prefer Bebe>Celio in Gardy, for example, but I would never. More times than not I like the majority of my hand with Gardy.
     
  7. Ryuzaki

    Ryuzaki New Member

    I prefer Celio's.

    I don't like HAVING to shuffle in a card. Sometimes its helpful, granted, but its annoying when that's not the case. You get to get rid of plenty dead weight with Claydol anyway.
     
  8. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Why don't you play both?
     
  9. prof unky dan

    prof unky dan New Member

    i use to play celio, but now am a fan of bebe when playing with claydol. but i have kinda already stopped using cards before DP, to get ready for the rotation...which is pretty hard at league when everyone is still using DRE scrambles...

    but anyway i liked celio allot
     
  10. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Magnechu - I play Ceilio's in my Gardy list, because, as you said, Telepass and Cosmic Power usually get me what I need, and I don't need the extra card off Bebe's.

    Ryuzaki - I used to be like that. But, than I tried out Bebe's in one of my decks, because I only have 7 Ceilio's, and there were 3 decks that needed cards, and I didn't feel like making proxies. Anyway, I liked it, and didn't have any problems with that one thing. Of course, it can become a major problem, but that's never happened to me.

    Prime - Well, in testing, I only use Bebe's because I have limited Ceilio's. However, I have thought about using both (2 of each), and I probally will end up doing that. I just wanted to see what people on PokeGym thought was the best.
     
  11. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    I disagree. They are basics, therefore easily searchable with Roseanne's, which wouldn;t make you waste a precious search card.

    I would keep the Celio's, as if I needed my tech late game, I ALWAYS have a Roseanne's or 2 that would be otherwise useless mid-game.
     
  12. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Yoyofsho16 - However, you usually use Roseanne's early-game more then late-game, to get your Basics up early. However, if you have a Roseanne's, use it over Bebe's. And Roseanne's is also a search card, just not an Evo search card...
     
  13. Kabutops141

    Kabutops141 New Member

    Exactly. I usually like to play 3 Bebe's and 2 Celo's. That way, you have both for either situation.
     
  14. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Don't have room for 5 search cards. 4 at the most.

    In a deck with no Claydol however, Ceilio's is obviously the one.

    Anyway, I'm probally going to go with 2 Ceilio's/2 Bebe's. I'll test it. Even though I know I'll draw into Bebe's when I need Ceilio's, or Ceilio's when Bebe's is better.

    Thanks, everyone!
     

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