Behold, Delgatron!

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Otaku, Oct 14, 2007.

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  1. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    Name: Behold, Delgatron!

    22 Pokémon
    3 Croconaw MT
    4 Delcatty PK
    3 Feraligatr MT
    2 Magnemite PK
    2 Magneton PK
    4 Skitty PK
    4 Totodile MT

    18 Trainers
    3 Celio’s Network
    1 Copycat
    1 Night Maintenance
    2 Rare Candy
    2 Scott
    2 Speed Stadium
    1 Steven’s Advice
    1 Team Galactic’s Wager
    3 TV Reporter
    1 Warp Point
    1 Windstorm

    20 Energy
    2 Double Rainbow Energy
    5 Lightning Energy
    1 Scramble Energy
    12 Water Energy

    This is the deck I took to Battle Roads. I am sure you all are familiar with the basic concept: Delcatty to draw Energy quickly and easily from the deck, Gatr to throw it back into the deck for big damage, and Magneton to prevent you from running too low on Energy as it inevitably does end up in the discard pile. If I had a Delcatty ex, I'd run it in place of one Delcatty. In addition, I am debating whether I should drop a 1-1 line from the Catty for something else. The problem being I am uncertain of what to include, as the other lines are plenty big already. Bench space is at a premium for the deck, so an opener with no further use is a concern.

    I'll be honest: main reason I am posting this is because I like my silly name for the deck. I normally dislike just smooshing Pokemon names together, but its a Transformers reference (pure luck that Gatr is spelled in such a way that the -on from Magneton forms the common Transformers name suffix of -tron). The "Behold" part just fits in with a line from the original Transformers Movie (from 1986). "Behold, Galvatron!", stated by Unicron (Orson Welles) right after he changes Megatron (Frank Welker) into Galvatron (Leonard Nimoy).

    My Trainers may seem odd: originally it was due to what I owned vs. what I didn't, but in the end it worked out fairly well. Celio, Copycat, Steven's, Night Maintenance, TGW, and Warp Point should be obvious in their use, so I'll focus on the bit unusual choices. Only two Rare Candy: I want to get Croconaw's PokePower: early game Delcatty will hit a lot more than Energy, so Energy often doesn't get you that many Energy ahead. It is also too soon for Magneton to be any real help. Croconaw's PokePower looks at the top five cards and gets all Energy from them (then shuffles the deck), so while its usually just hitting one or two Energy, every little bit helps (and when it does hit a lot, all the better). Scott help thin the deck, and I probably don't need to explain him too much (since we lost Pidgeot and now the Holon Engine, I see him a lot). Speed Stadium may or may not be a surprise. I use it a lot, but I really do tend to "luck out". I probably average 1 card per draw. There are turns I get nothing, but I get one more often than not, and that is further augmented by the periodic Monster draws and my opponents averaging only about one card every other turn. Yep, luck like I said. I chose to run it, though, just as a default Stadium. I only have 1 Windstorm (already in the deck), so I wanted another way to get rid of Stadiums. Additionally, even though it doesn't always work it is still a boon to the deck, giving me another shot at drawing what I need. It helps speed Gatr along even more. Finally, I use TV Reporter for straight draw power since I often have something I can toss: either dead cards in hand (unneeded Pokemon/Supporters) or Energy Magneton will just fish back. Speaking of which, TV Reporter/Magneton make it okay to run enough redundancy in the deck for a solid set up.

    Energy is pretty obvious too, I'd wager. A few Lightning Energy ( might cut one, but it'd be for another Energy) to make it easier to the Magneton to attack (I originally tried just using DRE and that wasn't good). Two DRE for the slight speed boost (and damage boost if on something other than an attacking magneton), Scramble, and Water.

    Suggestions are welcome. Now to read Transformers fanfics.
     
  2. millionkp

    millionkp New Member

    i wonder how it would run with Blissey and no Magneton? It could be good but the trainers must go. Add in 1 Rare Candy for cinsistency.
     
  3. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    Can you elaborate further? What Trainers do you suggest? Are you using Trainers in the old or the new sense (e.g. does that include Stadiums and Supporters or not)?

    Why would another Rare Candy "add consistency" when it prevents Croconaw's PokePower from triggering? My main consistency issue so far has been with getting Basics: I just can't find anything to fit in that wouldn't end up dead weight too often past the opening turns.
     
  4. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

  5. logan1975

    logan1975 New Member

     
  6. millionkp

    millionkp New Member

    use 3 castaways and 2 more windstorm. Add in Blissey with Holon Energy WP.
     
  7. Master_Whiscash_77

    Master_Whiscash_77 New Member

    if you play blissey, you could try to add in some super scoop ups. gets loads of energy on blissey then SSU and get it all in your hand! also could help free up some bench space.
     
  8. Dark Weedle

    Dark Weedle New Member

    castaway isnt needed, dont listen to anyone that wants you to add blissey..
     
  9. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    Tech in a Gatr d, you wont be sorry.
     
  10. Dark Weedle

    Dark Weedle New Member

    yes you will
     
  11. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    My time is short, but I wanted to thank you for posting and encourage it to continue. Do try to explain why I should add things, or say "check out post #XX of the Hurricane thread" if its something established there. I say this because right now I mostly find myself agreeing with Dark Weedle: a lot of the fixes seem random. Maybe they match up to your metagame or reflect another change I didn't catch?

    Thank you Master_Whicash_77 for explaining why I should consider Blissey. However, I only own one and I don't think its right for the deck: if I add another attacker, it should probably cover my type Weaknesses, not just repeat them. I mean, I really do want to change one normal Delcatty for a Delcatty ex to act as a cleaner/alternate attacker. I already have Magnetons to get Energy from the discard via a re-usable PokePower, and normal Delcatty to draw. If we still had Briney, then Blissy might make sense as it could possibly replace Delcatty for Draw Power, Delcatty ex and Magneton as back up attackers, and Magneton for Energy reclamation. Then again, that's a lot of turns I have to have it survive to keep attacking to get enough Energy to matter.
     
  12. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    ^ Which fixes are you refearing to? My fixes and techs are far from random, though I wont try and say that my trainer line isn't weird.

    Here's why you should use Gatr d

    I have won several battles because of this card, and it greatly helps against Empoleon.
     
  13. Dark Weedle

    Dark Weedle New Member

    ^

    Empoleon is pretty much an auto win anyway

    4 gatr mt is jiust better than 3 and one that isnt

    there are far better choices than scramble energy
     
  14. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    Empoleon is far from an ato win if it's a good build.

    With out Gatr d, you have NO bench penatration. Your opponent could retreat somthing thats 10 away from being ko'd any you couldn't do a thing about it.

    Drag off is great for getting rid of cc crystals for a turn or so.

    And you need scramble in a deck that's this slow.

    I would also add a castform for searchable nrg.
     
  15. Dark Weedle

    Dark Weedle New Member

    And if your build is decent at all it again doesnt matter, you get out more than 1 gatr they might as well scoop it doesnt matter if they cess lock you

    You dont need to hit the bench once you get setup you ohko whatever they send up

    Or you could play 4 windstorms

    The deck isnt slow at all

    or you could play a real energy and not a horrible starter


    Im done here you obv. dont take advice well
     
  16. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    No I do listen to advice, but saying that Gatr isn't slow is like saying that Blissy isn't fast.

    And if you have a good build you should never start with castform. Castform is just to good in this deck to not use.
     
  17. Dark Weedle

    Dark Weedle New Member

    If you have 10 basics and one of them is castform, you will start with it roughly 1/10-12 games whether you think your list is great or not.
     
  18. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    I must agree with Dark Weedle about Castform. I finally had time to read your Hurricane article. Castform makes little sense. First, the deck can run Lightning Energy: I ran five and it didn't cause me problems. As you can see, I didn't run a Gatr d, but thanks to Magneton, a little Lightning goes a long way: I can probably drop my count down to four or even maybe just three since I only have them there for Magneton. If you really are worried about running out of Energy for the attack... try changing Castform to an Energy. I mean, unless you waste one of your Night Maintenance picks on it, its only going to bounce one Energy back.
     
  19. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    But that 1 nrg you bring back = 20 more attack power thats searchable, and if you remove a DRE thats =30 more attack power. It's also good for grabing a DRE or scramble if your gatr is going to be ko'd next turn.
     
  20. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    Ah, the thing is, you are ignoring my previous post. Holon's Castform does not count as an Energy card while in your hand. Replace it with a Basic Water Energy. Guess what? The same "plus 20" you are talking about. The only way you get "more" is if I absolutely need to attach another Energy to something that turn, and it has an Energy I can bounce back on it. That shouldn't be happening a lot.

    As for using it to bounce back DRE or Scramble. DRE can be a pain later in the game, and Scramble can be handy in a bind, but we are missing a key point: if the deck finds it needs those bounced a lot, something else is already wrong! That -10 from DRE should only matter a select few times during a tournament if the deck is correctly built. If it is costing games left and right, that means the build itself may need overhauling. The same goes for Scramble Energy: barring bad luck and being forced to use it to power up a Pokemon without its effect kicking in, in order for the bounce to matter you have to fall behind twice... and for a hard hitting deck like this that should worry you. This isn't, for example, one of my old favorites Liability, where I often wanted the opponent to remain a few prizes ahead so I could nail them with Pow!, Admin, and Scrambles (Oh my!) and while being behind in prizes have such control over the field that they can't do anything to come back. Also, saving a Scramble or DRE from the Pokemon with it being KO'd means giving up on Castform. While it is easier to recycle and then re-search, it still seems excessive.
     
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