Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Computer Search and Why Both Forms Should Be Legal

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Have we gotten a ruling yet for how this whole thing affects Unlimited yet? What thrilled me about this was the assumption it meant Unlimited now forced you to use for Ace Spec for Computer Search; I am hoping this weakens key decks enough to open things up a little.

I know this is kind of dated, but like five years ago or so Unlimited was finally opening up again; there were a lot of "staples" (or semi-staples where if you didn't run X, you ran Y or Z) things were pretty fun and I saw a lot of interesting decks. With the first turn rules reverting things really narrowed down. Forcing Unlimited players to abandon their old copies of Computer Search or else allowing them to use the old copies without restriction are not happy outcomes.

Sadly this means my hopes that Dowsing Machine would be Item Finder (for the same reasons) are now almost fears. >_<
 
Otaku said:
You realize this thread had been dormant for two weeks before GangnamStein posted, confused because s/he had gotten a bad ruling?

Also, if you read the whole thread you'll find that it isn't just "Wah! Wah! I can't use really old cards and have to get a new copy!" for the people concerned on this thread. While to some degree that is true for those (like myself) concerned about the ruling, there is a matter of ruling precedence/game infrastructure as well.
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You realize i dont care and ive read this since the beginning.
 
The only thing I don't understand is why they named it Computer Search. They clearly had no problem naming GoW as Pokemon Catcher, so why not make Computer Search into, I don't know, Overly Nice Friend? The only thing I can think of is that perhaps in the beginning they planned to allow old Computer Search cards, but then changed their mind after everything was already sent to the printers?

Who knows?
 
Swordfish1989 said:
The only thing I don't understand is why they named it Computer Search. They clearly had no problem naming GoW as Pokemon Catcher, so why not make Computer Search into, I don't know, Overly Nice Friend? The only thing I can think of is that perhaps in the beginning they planned to allow old Computer Search cards, but then changed their mind after everything was already sent to the printers?

Who knows?
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Why overly nice friend? Why not PC? like in the VG.
 
Swordfish1989 said:
The only thing I don't understand is why they named it Computer Search. They clearly had no problem naming GoW as Pokemon Catcher, so why not make Computer Search into, I don't know, Overly Nice Friend? The only thing I can think of is that perhaps in the beginning they planned to allow old Computer Search cards, but then changed their mind after everything was already sent to the printers?

Who knows?
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They're meant to be throwbacks to the base set cards. That's why the one in the next set is Itemfinder instead of Junk Arm. (assuming they don't decide to update the translation to "Dowsing MCHN" like the recent games did)
 
Well, all that does is create conflicts with the rules. if I wanted to make a unlimited deck, could I use 4 Base Set computer search and the one from Boundaries Crossed or what. The rules say only 4 of the same name card in the deck but how would that work when they are 2 different cards?
 
I'm a returning player. I played and collected up until the end of Team Rocket, and I have a playset of every single card, first edition, from TR and before. This was largely due to my mom wanting to have something to do while I played, so she collected for me.

My initial reaction when I saw Computer Search was 40 bucks was "thank goodness I already own 4 of those, 1 for me, 1 for my wife, 1 for each of my two nephews." Then I read I couldn't use it... Now I'm going to be out 160 dollars for 4 of a card that is FUNCTIONALLY identical to a card I already own, minus the clean-up on some text on the card and an added "reminder" that I can only play one of this particular "kind" of card in my deck.

When playing in tournaments, of any card game I've ever played," it is the PLAYERS responsibility to understand and agree to the deck building restraints REQUIRED by their particular format. Any rules regarding individual cards is included in this... For me, not allowing the original Computer Search is less about wanting to save money, and more about how I feel approaching competitive Pokemon if players are not going to be held accountable to know what exactly they are and are not allowed to do with their cards.

I understand that this may already be hashed out prior, but I read that a few people were talking about returning players looking at the initial price range to get back into the game... I'm one of those players. Literally bought my first cards tonight since Legends or something (I played in a Pre-Release for the set when we couldn't play magic at our store that day) and Team Rocket before that. I know I was super excited to use my old Islands, and was a little upset that on Troll and Toad "gust of wind" was 20 bucks and named something else... also an Uncommon, but I'd deal. Then I get hit with this whammy that if I want to be competitive, I'm going to have to shell out 40 dollars, and then 40 more for every person I'm supporting in this game (wife and 2 nephews, potentially a brother and a long time TCG friend). I'll do it because I love card games, but if anyone who reads these forums has any say whatsoever, you should probably examine how much responsibility you are requiring your player base to have when participating in tournaments.

For reference, the leagues in our area are "free play" and "unlimited" so the actual ruling doesn't matter. I don't know how much this affects others, but if most are like this then it seems silly to begin with as the only time you would be playing with this in effect (where you couldn't use the Base Set and Base Set 2 CPU's) would be in a tournament setting where you should be responsible for knowing the rules to begin with. Right?

Please forgive me if I'm totally off base, but I just wanted to shed the opinion of a very ancient player returning to this game.
 
vaporeon said:
Well, all that does is create conflicts with the rules. if I wanted to make a unlimited deck, could I use 4 Base Set computer search and the one from Boundaries Crossed or what. The rules say only 4 of the same name card in the deck but how would that work when they are 2 different cards?
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Go ask Alph Lithograph. :thumb:
 
Following the Alph logic of them being same-named cards with different effects, I would think you could still use 3 old ones and 1 new one. Although there's no reason to; you'd be better off to play 4 old ones and a different AC card.

Although enjoy the dumptruck of salt with that; it's entirely possible that the old one is unusable in all formats now. I just don't know - I rarely pay attention to unlimited stuff because it's a format I never, ever, ever play.
 
Mystery Thing said:
Following the Alph logic of them being same-named cards with different effects, I would think you could still use 3 old ones and 1 new one. Although there's no reason to; you'd be better off to play 4 old ones and a different AC card.

Although enjoy the dumptruck of salt with that; it's entirely possible that the old one is unusable in all formats now. I just don't know - I rarely pay attention to unlimited stuff because it's a format I never, ever, ever play.
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That would make no sense.
There are really only two or three different ways that this could play out in unlimited.
Either
  • the old Computer Search will be totally unplayable.
  • the old Computer Search will be playable using the new text without a reference.
  • the old Computer Search will be playable but you will need a new card as a reference.

Those are the only three possible options.
 
PokePop said:
That would make no sense.
There are really only two or three different ways that this could play out in unlimited.
Either
  • the old Computer Search will be totally unplayable.
  • the old Computer Search will be playable using the new text without a reference.
  • the old Computer Search will be playable but you will need a new card as a reference.

Those are the only three possible options.
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Then why were each of the Alph Lithographs not run out of town when the subsequent one came out? They were all named "Alph Lithograph," they all did different things, and they were all legal at the same time.

I don't see why CPU Search would be any different. If the logic behind the old one not being useable is that since one is an Ace Spec and one is a (grandfathered) Item, they aren't technically the same card, right? How is that any different than the Lithos? And if the reasoning for CPU is rather that it constitutes a major text change, it's a heck of a lot less major than the Lithos were.

Just based on that, I think what I said makes a ton of sense. It may not be right (heaven knows half the card name rules in this game are totally weird), but it makes tons of sense.
 
Otaku said:
3) If it happens, it solves two problems; a lot of people will quit complaining because we will just leave the game. :thumb:
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Are people really going to quit over a ruling on a single card type? It's rather evident that this will likely be an issue with ACE SPECs only, not with any other cards. It's a single card slot in the deck, that you don't even really have to play.

It just seems like a really ridiculous thing to quit the game over.

---------- Post added 12/01/2012 at 05:45 PM ----------
Mystery Thing said:
Then why were each of the Alph Lithographs not run out of town when the subsequent one came out? They were all named "Alph Lithograph," they all did different things, and they were all legal at the same time.

I don't see why CPU Search would be any different. The logic behind the old one not being useable is that since once is an Ace Spec and one is a (grandfathered) Item, they aren't technically the same card, right? How is that any different than the Lithos?

Just based on that, I think what I said makes a ton of sense. It may not be right (heaven knows half the card name rules in this game are totally weird), but it makes tons of sense.
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I'd like to point out that Alph Lithograph is kind of the odd duck out in this scenario. It was an odd trainer set in every way upon launch, and shouldn't really be used as an example for anything other than itself.

Great Ball and Pokemon Center would be far more justifiable examples. Just sayin.
 
Alph Lithograph cards are "an exception that proves the rule."

I wouldn't try to use them in a general argument about how card names work.
 
Otaku said:
3) If it happens, it solves two problems; a lot of people will quit complaining because we will just leave the game. :thumb:
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TheRolesWePlay said:
Are people really going to quit over a ruling on a single card type? It's rather evident that this will likely be an issue with ACE SPECs only, not with any other cards. It's a single card slot in the deck, that you don't even really have to play.

It just seems like a really ridiculous thing to quit the game over.
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TheRolesWePlay, the comment you quoted was in response to a post by baby_mario. He had just expressed concern that in frustration over this whole thing TPCi (or whomever has the authority) would just do away with the "previous printings" rule, which basically means players will have to repurchase cards like Switch, Potion, Double Colorless Energy, and Pokémon Catcher when they are reprinted; at least three of those four usually aren't easy to come by when reprinted, either.

The portion of my post you quote was just pointing out if the "previous printings" rule goes, so will many players! If that is how you understood it, and you can deal with constantly having to get such cards over and over again, okay. Realize the "good" cards where prices only tend to drop because of the "previous printings" rule would not keep dropping unless such cards were spammed in releases.

Perpetually high prices or sets/promos clogged with reprints solely for this purpose don't thrill me. Still, thanks for giving me a chance to clarify, since I bet you aren't the only one who misunderstood (or you're about to point out some sentence structure/grammar error I made that means I did say what you thought I said, and not what I thought I said :rolleyes:).
 
PokePop said:
Alph Lithograph cards are "an exception that proves the rule."

I wouldn't try to use them in a general argument about how card names work.
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If the answer to the argument is that the reprint rules are never, ever uniform with this game, then I'm willing to stand down, hah :lol:
 
Otaku said:
TheRolesWePlay, the comment you quoted was in response to a post by baby_mario. He had just expressed concern that in frustration over this whole thing TPCi (or whomever has the authority) would just do away with the "previous printings" rule, which basically means players will have to repurchase cards like Switch, Potion, Double Colorless Energy, and Pokémon Catcher when they are reprinted; at least three of those four usually aren't easy to come by when reprinted, either.

The portion of my post you quote was just pointing out if the "previous printings" rule goes, so will many players! If that is how you understood it, and you can deal with constantly having to get such cards over and over again, okay. Realize the "good" cards where prices only tend to drop because of the "previous printings" rule would not keep dropping unless such cards were spammed in releases.

Perpetually high prices or sets/promos clogged with reprints solely for this purpose don't thrill me. Still, thanks for giving me a chance to clarify, since I bet you aren't the only one who misunderstood (or you're about to point out some sentence structure/grammar error I made that means I did say what you thought I said, and not what I thought I said :rolleyes:).
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I guess I misinterpreted your post. Although I doubt TPCi would just cut off such a long standing rule solely out of frustration towards all of the complaints.
 
PokePop said:
That would make no sense.
There are really only two or three different ways that this could play out in unlimited.
Either
  • the old Computer Search will be totally unplayable.
  • the old Computer Search will be playable using the new text without a reference.
  • the old Computer Search will be playable but you will need a new card as a reference.

Those are the only three possible options.
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Unless they changed their minds about why you can't play the old Computer Search in place of the new one, this makes no sense. The idea is that the cards are different enough to not be the same card, which also means that the old card doesn't have the restrictions of the new card. If you add the Ace Spec restrictions to the old one, then they are no longer different in any way whatsoever; if you don't, they are different cards, and don't influence each other except through the "max 4 cards with the same name" rule. The only way I could imagine the above logic working involves a paradox-resistant stable time loop, and I'm sure none of us want that.
 
Sorry, but I stand by my post.
I've dealt with Pokemon Organized Play in all its forms in a close working relationship for over 12 years now.
I have discussions with them regularly on subjects like this.
The final result of this issue can only be one of those three choices.

The old card is nerfed.
The only question is just how nerfed it is.
It not being nerfed just ain't gonna happen.
 
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