confused over Dusk Stone

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by NoPoke, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

  2. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    if you think about the wording you would get it

    absol says "if you played absol from your hand this turn" where the evolution items on murkrow, clefairy and duskull say "during the turn you play it" with no further restrictions implied by the text such as playing from your hand during your turn, setup phase isn't during your turn even though it counts as the turn that you played it

    logically it's the turn that you played it but technically your not playing it from your hand after you draw a card, that's why you can evolve a clefairy on the bench your first turn as long as you play it from your hand during you turn, not setup phase
     
  3. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    The problem that I have is that if setup is a special case and somehow part of your first turn then Absol's Raid would also get the +30 bonus.

    I'm currently wracking my memory to think of an example rulling where it might be stated or implied that cards placed during setup aren't considered as played.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2008
  4. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    your not playing absol from your hand during your turn, setup phase, is not during your turn, the wording makes it different the wording for the evolution stones applies because it says during the turn you put it into play, during your first turn the pokemon you play down in setup come into play, they are not being "played from your hand" during the first turn but they come into play during the first turn

    like i originally said, they would be the same if absol didn't have further limitations on the text

    i see that the difficulty you are having is "why do the dusk stones count" because i'm sure you've seen basics in the past that had powers that activate once per turn when you play from your hand, and i'm sure you knew that they weren't able to use those powers if played during setup, i hope my explenation on why dusk stone is an exception is helpfull
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2008
  5. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    but that is my point. If setup is not part of your turn then Dusk Stone's requirements aren't met. The text on both cards states that the cards have to be played during the turn.

    Dusk Stone does not say: Murkrow can evolve during your turn. Which would avoid the need to be played. Instead it needs to be played. Which for me would mean from the deck, hand, or discard after you draw a card.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2008
  6. Dom

    Dom New Member

    I agree, the wording isn't clear at all but I think the intent of Murkrow is that you can evolve it "any" time regardless of when it comes into play, effectively cancelling the rule of having to be in play one turn before it evolves. Whereas Absol's effect is something that has to be "triggered".

    Sometimes its not what the cards say that actually matters.
     
  7. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    i really think you're right because i remember translations being "can be evolved at any time" or something like that

    but i've always thought the ruling matched the wordings pretty logically, i interpret it as saying it can be evolved at any time by looking at what the wording says, it tells you that it can be evolved the turn you play it with no restrictions like having to play from your hand, it's not that "setting up isn't part of playing your turn" it's the fact that your not playing it from your hand during your turn

    it's kind of an oxymoron but it might just be the fact that the meaning wasn't translated in the wording, set up isn't during your turn but your first turn counts as "the turn it came into play"
     
  8. Tego

    Tego New Member

    The wording is too short and unclear in the English version. Here's the original wording on my Japanese Murkrow: *searches out from rests of his Honchkrow deck*

    If played during your own turn, this Pokémon can evolve even the turn it was put into play.

    With such a wording, I _really_ can't see why it should be allowed to evolve if put during setup. Is this ruling correct?

    It almost always is, but sometimes details get lost in translation.

    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    I checked the Japanese website's FAQ page and found this: http://www.pokemon-card.com/faq/index.php/faq/1996/. The ruling is indeed correct and up to date with Japan:

    Q: Can the three Pokémon holding evolution tools evolve even on the turn that immediately follows the start-up of the game?

    A: Yes, they can

    So judging from this, the above mentioned "If played during your own turn" wording of the card does indeed mean your set-up. Set-up is your turn, then? :S
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2008

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