Constructive Feedback for US Nationals

Discussion in 'National Championships' started by webjefita, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. webjefita

    webjefita New Member

    What we liked at US Nationals:

    -Special juniors tournaments: awesome prizes! Much better than league, b/c there were judges there and the kids were actually playing and/or learning to play.
    -Free and paid 8-man tournaments: two great options that were a lot of fun
    -Finals streaming and commentators: The best commentators!
    -Professor Cup was extremely fun.
    -Tshirts looked very good.
    -CPC mat looks very good.

    I really appreciated the side events and CPC. As a Pokemom, not playing in the main event since I preferred to wait at the table for the rest of the family, it was really cool to be able to play on Day 3 while my husband got to hang out with the kids at side events and watch matches. So yes, more events, more fun for everyone.

    Suggestions for Next Year:
    -Announcements could not be heard at all in the back of the room.
    -Last years' room included a food vending station. This year was a longer walk to the food court.
    -Everything that happened in a certain place on Day 1 happened in a different place on Day 2.
    -The room being cut in half on Day 3 was a hindrance to the crowd.
    -Stream Prof Cup Semi or Finals on Day 3 :)
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  2. LOLZ

    LOLZ Member

    Note- I was not at Nationals, just posting what I think are interesting ideas.
    The best thing to come out of the TPCI office this year was the idea of Extra Swiss Rounds w/ Smaller Top Cut. This first suggestion applies to all events, not just Nationals

    Lowering the bar with regards to qualifying for Extra Swiss Rounds is a good idea for all events Cities and Higher.

    My Suggestion-

    I had the chance to staff two regionals this season that had extra Swiss rounds. 9 Rounds + 5 Rounds + T8 is very doable in a 2 day time frame, both events were over by 7pm Sunday, anything less as suggested on the chart above is equally possible. At US Nationals, going 6-2 in Juniors and missing T8 is rough. Let the kids have extra swiss rounds at US Nationals as well as other tournaments leading up to and including Worlds. Also, if possible Make future Worlds 3 Days instead of the current 2 to allow for extra Swiss Rounds at Worlds. LCQ on Thursday, Worlds Friday-Sunday.

    Something else to consider, instead of 9 Rounds Day 1 for events with 227+, cut 1 round to make Day 1 shorter. This will cause more X-2s to exist, meaning that more players will have the opportunity to have a good run during extra Swiss round and the dream of making Top 8 is still alive. With more X-2s, there will be a defined bar to make Day 2. The likelihood of there being 32+ X-2s is way higher. X-3s, X-2-1s, etc... won't make/miss day 2 on tie breakers.
    In regards to CPC side events... this is a re-post from the side events thread-


    Alot of complaints I read on Facebook is about 8-Mans having an entry fee and League not occurring.

    I was never really a fan of League at Nationals or Worlds as a Player or a Staff Member.

    As a Player, I take 15-20 Minutes to play 1 game then get in a 15-20 Minute Line to win a prize.

    As a Judge, players found a way to work the system, they get in line, get a prize, get in the back of the line without playing a game, get a prize again and repeat. Players who just get in line without playing contribute to a longer prize line. One year at Worlds I was in Side Events at League. I saw alot of players come back through the line rather quickly. I asked my lead staff member of League if I can stand on a chair and watch for players working the system. Within seconds I saw a group of Japanese juniors go from prizes to end of line within minutes, I also saw one guy get a prize, walk across the room, hug one of his buddies and then get in line with his buddy. Dan happened to be in in sides at the time and he took care of the guys who decided to hug and get in line for prizes.

    Anyways, League is still fun for players who do play by the rules. There needs to be some way League can come back and still be monitored for players working the system.

    I have an idea, take 8-Mans and League and combine them into a 8 Man League Challenge type events. (No Championship Points)

    Players sign up to participate in an 8 Man Pick Up.

    Prizes payed out for individual 8 Mans T4- 4-2-1-1 (No Participation pack, because players are still playing for League Prizes)

    As players play in 8 Mans they get participation points- 8 points for 1st, 5 for 2nd, 3 for T4, 2 points for losing in the first round.

    Once players point total reaches a certain level they get a pokemon promotional item, for example-
    15 Points- Set of Left over League Promos or what ever small item P!P gives out at National/World Leagues just to give away
    25 Points- Pack of Play! Pokemon Sleeves
    40 Points- Hat
    60 Points- Another Set of Left over League Promos or what ever small item P!P gives out at National/World Leagues just to give away
    80 Points- Binder
    100 Points- Playmat

    Combining League and 8 Mans like this gives players a chance to play in something more structured with the chance to win League Type Prizes and can be monitored by the judge overseeing that particular 8 Man. By providing this structure, players should come up to the prize/reporting table at a steady pace as they are forced to play a legit tournament game.

    Regarding how to keep track of this point system, make a program that is designed to do this, Carlos Pero and Jeff Brower might be able to come up with something if you think this is a good idea and they are willing to pick up this task.

    About the entry fee, alot of players felt that $5 per 8 Man was a turn off to them. I agree and disagree. Players can easily play in 5-10 8 Mans in a weekend, at $5 a tournament, this adds up. However, the funding for the prizes need to come from somewhere. Since cash is involved, make it easy, what if you charge a flat rate for a weekend pass to participate in as many 8 Mans League Tournaments as possible. Charge players $20-$30, they get a wristband and then they can play in as many 8 Man League tournaments as they want and are able to throughout the rest of the weekend.

    If P!P likes the idea of making a program for League/8 man pick up play and likes the idea of charging a flat rate for 8 man pick up tournaments.... this website has bar coded wristbands. Wristbands allow for easy control to figure out who payed to play in 8 mans and the barcode on the wrist band has the potential to be used in any program that is created for this type of side event.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  3. Trican

    Trican New Member

    My two cents:

    On shorter registration waits on Thursday.

    Shorter between round times.

    Using the online pairings again.

    Could Do Better-
    The lack of league was kind of lame. I get the reasoning behind it, but I didn't even head back in Sunday. Anthony's suggestion of the 8 man pick up for league events is a great idea as I was turned off to 8 mans for the random top two items that as I could tell were decided after sign ups. The idea of an all weekend wristband would also be lovely as if I do poorly day one (and obviously not in the CPC) dropping 50 bucks for side events for average prizes isn't appealing. On the flip side if the 5$ tournaments offered some sort of unique swag I'd also be inclined to pay to play. 5$ for boosters is just not appealing.

    No lunch breaks. Time constraints we get it. We still need to eat.

    Not being at the open staff call post seminar is what I will start out with. Being told in round 6(I think? Maybe 7) that to register for the Prof Cup I had to either finish my round in ten minutes or scoop. Admittedly if I had had the chance to open staff it may have been a different scenario, but is no way to have Prof Cup registration either on Thursday or throughout the day Friday if a round finishes early?
  4. charizard371

    charizard371 New Member

    1. No league- Pretty much the only Pokemon related thing I look forward to other than the main event. Sure the 8 man pods are fun but the prize support this year was terrible even if you paid money (generic binder for winner and small toy for second place for free)(small amount of booster packs for paid). As a younger player I am not looking to drop money on an unofficial tournament. League is definitely abused, but is still fun even for the honest person. In the past, prizes were great and I really looked forward to what I would get especially when I was a junior or younger senior.

    2. Bad Judging- I had some bad experience with judges this year. Early in the event they informed the players that you must go 7-2 or top 32 to make day 2. I asked an experienced judge about how many points I would need and they informed me 21 points and a few spots would go to 20 point players with 2 byes. With this in mind I realized I had to go 7-2 or 6-0-3 to make day 2. After a loss round 2, I noticed that a tie would do me no good and that I should play to win or if the game is impossible to win, scoop to let my opponent still have a shot. This ended up not being true at all as you only needed 18 points to make it. One 6-3 got in and a 5-0-4 got in as well. It is my fault for not always trying to tie those matches but I feel I was misinformed. Sorry to rant on the judges because they work really hard and are not given too much in return. They run all the events well and I am just salty about one bad experience.

    3. Crowded day 3- I do not know why Pokemon decided to cut down to a smaller room.

    4. 50+3- Yeah basically everyone in the community hates it...

    5. Lunch Break- I was fine with no lunch break. Everyone needs to understand the time constraints and there was cheap and edible food right in the center that takes no longer than 10 minutes to eat. If all your matches are going to time then you are stalling and you deserve no food haha
  5. losjackal

    losjackal Technical Administrator

    I would like to make sure you know that opining over who will make cut, and who won't, is not a Judge's job. All any Staff should say is "usually X-2 or top 32, whichever is greater". It's up to the players to end up with a good enough record, relative to the other players. Was the experienced Judge you asked a personal friend? Maybe that's why the tried to give you guidance.
  6. A few comments from me/my family - I was a volunteer runner all 3 days, the kids and my husband played.

    Some thoughts I had for consideration:
    • The pace of the whole weekend was fantastic - rounds were turned around quickly. Often 1/3 - 1/2 of the players were sitting down before the runners even got the paper lists up!
    • Smaller space overall made family meet-ups a bit more confusing. I liked the feel of "fullness" as a participant, but as a family member, I would have liked more round tables for gathering.
    • The T2 streaming and commentating that I saw (in person and online) were tremendous! I had so much fun particularly with VG - since I know so little - it was so well-informed, it made it a lot of fun to watch.
    • There WAS a food vendor right around the corner from the event hall - but we didn't even find out about it until after they were closing on Saturday! Folks who have gone before are conditioned to turn left out of the doors and head to the mall. If you turned Right and went to the open area under the Pikachu - there they were. A quick announcement or posted sign would have been helpful there.
    • My family each participated in a Championship Point tournament, and they loved the playmats for all participants. I like the value returned for participation, particularly if CP's were out of reach. A good reason to keep playing and participating.
    • Overhead signage particularly on Day 3 was confusing. The information table was headed "side event HQ" and side events were handled on a table across the hall... If the space layout is going to change again like this, perhaps more floor-stand signs - like the "Pairings" ones would be helpful. They can still be seen from a distance, but could be moved before the hall filled so folks would know where to go.

    I'll be the first to tell you that I'm not always a big fan of CHANGE - but it was obvious to me that the event organizers had really done a lot of planning ahead of time, and put a lot of thought into the space layout/event arrangement. Thank you! and I look forward to the improvements for next year that I know you are already working on.
  7. ShuckleLVX

    ShuckleLVX Active Member

    Just to point something out - by your own admission, you were presented with both options for making day 2; X-2 or Top 32, whichever allows more players. 21 points was the correct point to hit for an x-2 defined cut, and you chose to ignore the other option and base your tournament on only the possibility of making x-2. When it turned out that more players were allowed in since the total number of X-2's was less than 32, you're now upset that you ignored the other option, despite having it presented to you. That is not a case of bad judging, that's a case of you having tunnel vision on the x-2/21 point cutoff and ignoring the other cutoff, which you were aware of.
  8. DukeFireBird

    DukeFireBird Gallery Administrator<br>Forum Moderator

    Also to add on, In the documents for a day 2 swiss, it clearly states X-2 or T32 (Whichever is higher) So, yes 21 points guarantees a day 2 berth, and any judge can say that with certainty. A judge/volunteer however should never say that a few 20 pointers (or less points for that matter) MAY make it in. Whenever I am staffing events, and this happened this year, I had some players ask me what records/points will make cut. My reply is that I can only guarantee 1 player, that would be the x-0 player (21 points in a 7 round tournament).
  9. ShuckleLVX

    ShuckleLVX Active Member

    I tend to just feign ignorance, quote the rule, and tell them I'm bad at the math so I don't know more than that...

    ... maybe it's not as feigned as I'd like to believe...
  10. break

    break New Member group was unable to make it up there thursday >_<"

    * we all work and traveled by car *

    so that means we missed out on all of the free giveaways (t-shirts)...was disappointed that we could not pick one up friday morning.

    it would have been nice to have a bit more time for "lunch" in the VGC rounds.

    * almost lost my match because of the long lines waiting for food *

    my biggest grip was not having a dedicated charging station at the side events.

    i entered a few VGC side event and need to charge my 3DS...but the staff would not let me use there charging stations.

    apparently, it is forbidden for side event players to use them...while i could charge my 3DS outside of the venue, i would not be able to hear my name being called for the next round.

    currently saving up for worlds...and i hope to have a better time.

    * still a bit sour about my nationals experience *

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