CT Cities Report(How to screw yourself over)

Discussion in 'City Championships' started by Skull Bash, Nov 25, 2007.

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  1. Skull Bash

    Skull Bash New Member

    I got there with a little time to spare so I talked with Adrian, Gino, and Mike and some of the other people there. Adrian and Gino played a few games and we waited for the tourney to start, god forbid it starts on time(which it never has.)

    Round 1: ?? - Weavile/Blissey

    I start out with Stantler and Ralts on the bench. She starts out with Sneasel. I don't remember the early rounds too much, but she warp pointed my stantler when it had 40 on it, and I got up a Gardevoir and started attacking so she couldn't use Weavile's power to power Blissey up. Eventually I got the LV X up. With only having a few cards in her hand and not being able to top deck anything, I eventually won with Gallade in the end against her Chansey. 1-0

    Round 2: ?? - Kingdra EX

    She starts out with Spearow, and I start out with Stantler. I get a fairly slow setup, but she's delta calling things with her fearow and getting setup too, so it wasn't a big deal. Eventually I get out a Gallade and start attacking her Kingdra's. She has one kingdra fully powered up, which made me a little nervous. I Psycho Cut it and flipped over all but 1 of my prizes to kill her Kingdra. After that, I Sonic Bladed a few of her Kingdra's because I know I can just clean up with either Gardevoir LV X or Gallade. I warp pointed her active she intended to sacrafice, brought Gardevoir up, leveled it up to the LV X and used Bring Down to bring down one of the Kingdra I sonic bladed earlier. She draws and realizes that she can't do anything to keep me from doing that to her next Kingdra. 2-0

    Round 3: Con Le - Nidoqueen/Gardevoir

    He starts out with Chimecho(Which he only runs 1), I start out with Ralts. I go first, attach and use Smack. He draws 1 with Chimecho. He realizes that with nothing on his bench and me doing 30, it's probably over. I show him the Strength Charm in my hand. 3-0

    Round 4: Johnny Blaze - Turbo Bliss

    He starts out with Chansey, and I start out with Stantler. He kills stantler in a couple of turns and I bring out Gallade. I kill his first Blissey by flipping over 2 prizes, and he can't draw into anything, so I kill his second the next turn. 4-0

    Round 5: I start to get setup and then hear Random deck check. I was thinking alright, I have nothing to hide, and my sleeves are a little banged up, but they're pretty much the same. Next thing I know I hear them trying to DQ me because apparently one of my cards(Gardevoir) had a fold on the side. Because it was Gardevoir and not one of the other 56 cards in my deck they decide to kick me out of the tournament.

    Now this is my opinion on the matter. I couldn't deny there was a fold in the sleeve because they showed me the exact sleeve. It was my fault for making it easy for them to DQ me. HOWEVER, I don't agree with the penalty at all. The crime def. didn't fit the punishment. None of the people I faced came up to the people running the event and complained about my sleeves. When I talked to the opponents I faced, none of them even noticed the difference in any of the sleeves. At most, I should have got a game loss and went on to the next round as long as I re-sleeved. Just about every other penalty there is, the person gets a warning. The very first time I even have ANYTHING against my record, I'm automatically out of the tournament. I've played before, and never had a problem. I won't have to be worrying about this again because there's no way I'm letting it happen again. I think the penalty is a little severe for something that can be nitpicked however. Makes me wonder whether judges SUSPECT somebody is cheating or ACCUSE somebody of cheating. Obviously in my case it was the latter.

    But like I said before, my fault for letting it happen. If I didn't have something on my sleeve nobody would be able to say anything. Those are the breaks.

    +

    Mike - You didn't win on your birthday, but 4-2 isn't bad..
    Adrian, Gino, Con Le, Johnny Blaze and some others - always good chillen with you guys.
    Undefeated Start
    ALMOST Top cutting

    -

    Kicked out of the tourney.
    The Flamer who tried to get a cheap win from Michael..It's people like that who make me not even want to play the game.
    NOT Top cutting

    I'll probably be writing another next week or something. Stay tuned.
     
  2. Tough Break. Hope you can bounce back and win the next one.
     
  3. Naki Feralkin

    Naki Feralkin New Member

    They gave you a DQ for that? By specific ruling the worst they can do is give a Game Loss. Disqualification from the entire tournament is reserved for the most severe of rule breaks. In addition, they did deck checks at the beginning of the tournament, they should have even caught the ding. Its not like you were using it to mark. You didn't even notice it.

    That is a nonsense call and I would take it up with POP. I would not have given you a DQ, just a Game Loss at worst.
     
  4. Skull Bash

    Skull Bash New Member

    Deck checks at the beginning were optional. It was a fairly noticeable mark, but a lot of my sleeves were damaged a little. I didn't know the worst they can give you is a game loss.
     
  5. Naki Feralkin

    Naki Feralkin New Member

    You should always get your deck checked at the beginning of a tournament, that way any problems that may arise through sleeves or card formats can be settled with before a tournament so that no penalties arise. You should always make sure your deck gets checked so that something like that does not happen. I know a few people who got boned like that at nats because they didn't get it checked.

    From what I've read in the rules, that is the worst that should be given. DQ's are only kept for severe penalties like Unsportsmanlike conduct, cheating, or consistant rule breaking. According to your report, you did no such thing, therefore the penalty should not have been so harsh. We had something similar today in Seniors, before a top cut round. The kid had 59 cards and was not aware of it, but still made top cut. He was penalised with a game loss for his top cut, but that was all. His offense was in essence far worse than your offense and I think that you were completely ripped out of that penalty.
     
  6. secretsof2113

    secretsof2113 Moderator Trader Feedback Mod

    Yeah, you should have not gotten DQ'ed for that. For all you know, the sleeve could have gotten damaged in the tournament. But yes, Naki is right. Disqualifications are reserved for the most severe rule breaks. If it were someone like myself judging, you would have gotten a warning at the most for not getting your deck checked to begin with. On top of that, we always keep a close eye on players. If we suspect a player of cheating, we keep that much more of an eye on them. You got hit much harder than you should have.
     
  7. Skull Bash

    Skull Bash New Member

    I just read the rules over and you're both right. It says right in the guidelines that the recommended penalty for a minor infraction is a caution, and the recommended penalty for a major is a warning. Now I know that those are only the recommended penalties, but how can it go from a warning to being DQ'ed out of the tournament?
     
  8. Jaeger

    Jaeger New Member

    Gees even nats was only a prize penility, from what I heard
     
  9. Naki Feralkin

    Naki Feralkin New Member

    The ruling was seemingly a Major to me, and it was a Cities event, so it was a much bigger level of play. Penalties are much more notable with K Value of 16+. Thats why Nats is usually so harsh.

    It can't go from that level unless it was very severe. I would have made you resleeve the card and gave you a warning or a GL. If you look at the rules and see where DQ's are used, they are used for very severe rulings. It was certainly not caution worthy, but in no way, shape, or form should it have been a DQ. I seriously would take this up with your PTO or POP in general. That was a very unfair call and unless there was some reasoning behind it, I see no reason for the DQ.

    Its over now, so it doesn't really matter, but this will prevent anything like this from occurring in the future.
     
  10. speeder

    speeder New Member

    I just have a comment to other professors/judges who may want to make comments about this situation.

    I am a judge. I hate making these kinds of decisions. It's very hard to make these kinds of decisions, and I'm sure the judging staff in this situation thought long and hard before they came to this conclusion. It's a little bit of monday morning quater-backing to start saying how other judging staff mis-ruled on this without being there. I don't think any judge dq's a player lightly. One of the things that keeps these tournaments running smoothly is that ultimately, the judge's ruling is final. It could become very chaotic if the players start losing respect for the judging staff. It's a little irresponsible for any of us to undermine what other judges are doing at their tournaments. Please keep in mind that those penalties posted on pokemon's website are RECOMMENDED penalties, and the judge has the final say.

    Skull Bash took resposnsibility for the result. Ultimately, it's because he had a problem with his deck. The dq was not a result of bad judging, it was the result of a split sleeve. Nobody likes the end result, but that's what got the snowball rolling. All players have to realize that ultimately, they are responsible for their deck, and to remove any doubt what-so-ever that any impropriety could have taken place. If they notice a wrinkle in their sleeve, they should change it right away. If they don't and that wrinkled sleeve contains a crucial card to their deck, I think they can expect serious consequences. In a crucial moment, even a prized energy card could be important. It is the player's responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen to them. NOT the judge, or the TO. We're trying to keep things fair for everybody, not just try to be fair to the person who committed the penalty.

    So, give your condolences to Skull Bash if you like, and wish him luck in future tournaments, but don't fault the judges for his result.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  11. Jason

    Jason New Member

    So SB still get the ranking points?
     
  12. Krucifier

    Krucifier New Member

    I believe if you get disqualified all your points from that tournament are nullified.

    Dang I wish I got DQ'd at Nats. I would have won a ratings invite. Lol.
     
  13. Jason

    Jason New Member

    Jared...if you think you still wish your DQ'd, then it still wont make you #2 for AP invite last year... Joshua D was at 1727 and you at 1707...
     
  14. applecat

    applecat New Member

    First off, it you want to tell your story, you should tell the whole story.

    You didn't just get DQ'd over a torn sleeve. Your Gardy X had a torn sleeve, and it was proved in the deck check that other important key pokemon and trainers had some sort of marks on them.

    And yes, you were obviously complained about hence the random deck check. While playing you I had to remind you a few times that yes, you had already attached an energy during your turn (and after playing you was told that you were a shady character that I should watch out for). I thought that you were getting lucky pulling all the right cards you needed, but after I found everything else out I totally realized that wasn't luck at all. You seemed like a nice guy, but I have no respect for cheaters.

    Cheating is cheating, and I think what you did can't be passed off as just "beat up sleeves". You can spin all the 'poor me' stories that you'd like, but when it comes down to it, the truth is always going to come out.
     
  15. phoenixback4fire

    phoenixback4fire New Member

  16. I was told you can't say the "C" word in Pokemon. What's that about?
     
  17. DarkMagnus

    DarkMagnus New Member

    i dunno David then why would it be printed in the new rules over 15 times? i think they mean if it is thought to be an accedent, then we use ( in NE ) Shenanigans, cheating i would think would be used if it was blatant ie marked cards, misrepresenting the rules or card text etc.
     
  18. Flaming_Spinach

    Flaming_Spinach Feature Editor

    Note to self: Don't play with torn sleeves.
     
  19. SPARTA

    SPARTA New Member

    That is retarded beyond absolute belief. I slammed my head on my desk for half an hour after reading that trying to figure out what the heck these judges were thinking. Seriously, he got disqualified when undefeated because... he had one damaged sleeve that probably was damaged while he was playing.

    Maybe I'm just wierd, but I don't commonly check the condition of my sleeves while playing a game, I'm a bit busy trying to, you know, PLAY THE BLOODY GAME. After my matches I don't check them either, and I really don't know anyone who does. A DQ? At a city championship? For something that WASN'T intentional cheating? Real mature judge, real mature :nonono:
     
  20. Skull Bash

    Skull Bash New Member

    Haha...funny, very funny, hold on.

    First of all, get your facts right. Like I said, the tear was on my REGULAR Gardevoir. Now...let's continue:

    You never reminded me if I already attached an energy. EVER. You ASKED me if I had attached an energy and I let you know that I did.

    Now..with that said, let's call a spade a spade..Me and my crew don't go to every event and try to make friends with every character there so we're looked upon as "inferiors" by a lot of members there...you included. Because of this, when one of us does well in a tournament, it isn't like we're just fighting for ourselves, it's like we're fighting a whole community of people. I haven't been to that many tournaments. Maybe 4. I had no idea what the ruling was on a ripped sleeve, and maybe I took looking at my deck a little too calmly.

    Now..on to me cheating. Hmm...maybe the reason why I had the Celio's I needed was because I used Stantler's Lead about 3 or 4 times..or maybe because I already had Gardevoir on the field and was using 2 supporters a turn. I've never seen somebody so bitter about a loss.....ever.

    Poor guy routine? Well, actually I took my punishment as a man and graciously stood there because I ultimately put the blame on myself, and still do so. I never once didn't take blame for the fact that my sleeve had a rip.

    Admit it, you never saw anything wrong with my sleeves. You cut my deck almost every shuffle, and looked at them several times. If there was a problem you would have said something on the spot. Now I know why you looked so bitter when you were losing...You couldn't stand losing to me. I hope I play you again in Rhode Island...with REGULAR sleeves.

    You're right, the truth does come out...that truth being that I was 4-0 and allowed somebody else to take that away from me, and it will NEVER happen again. While you on the other hand...I'd suggest learning how to take a loss, and get your facts right before speaking again.
     
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