CT Cities Report(How to screw yourself over)

[DarkMagnus]

Sparta how are you able to comment on this with out hearing out the whole situation? wouldn't it seam fishy if your oppoent went undefeated and then had great sleeves on some cards andcertain marks on others? while i was not the event staff that day ( normally i am) but i was his opp that round. to my knowledge the Cards where checked by no less than 4 event staff and 3 M:tg judges. and still while i wasn't involved in the decision i would feel that the staff knows best. and if he was deamed cheating then the penalty for any event be a CC a PR or BR is DQ. it might not be cool but that is there ruling.

 

[TomShea]

Hello everyone
Mike was not dqed for one bad sleeve. He was dqed for playing with marked cards. His sleeves were marked intentional or not. The fact is that his energies did not have the same wear patterns that his other cards had. His best pokemon in his deck had the rip, while another card that combos with it was clarly marked. The real problem we had with his sleeves was how his cards were clearly marked. This was nicely explained to Mike.

The fact is that we took our time to really think this one out. We don't disqualify players happily. I had a few of my friends who play magic look at the sleeves. These players know nothing about pokemon and yet picked out the patterns. So again Mike you were not disquailifed for a bad sleeve. You were disqualified for playing with MARKED CARDS. Sleeves usually show wear patterns. Yours did not. Yours had markes on them in different places. Some of your marks were long scratches in nature while others were dings, and several were swirls. I took the time to try to discuss this with you. You were not interested.

It is my hope that the pokemon player communtiy will learn to appreciate the judging staffs out there that do thier best to keep the tournaments well run and FAIR. We don't care who wins or loses. What we do care about is that the players come to a well run, fair event. Mike knew that his sleeves were worn. Why didn't he have a judge look them over? We are doing deck checks at all competitive level events. Players who have rules questions should ask them. It is better to know the rules than knowilng break them and face the consequences.

think about it

Tom Shea
PTO New England

 

[SPARTA]

Sparta how are you able to comment on this with out hearing out the whole situation? wouldn't it seam fishy if your oppoent went undefeated and then had great sleeves on some cards andcertain marks on others? while i was not the event staff that day ( normally i am) but i was his opp that round. to my knowledge the Cards where checked by no less than 4 event staff and 3 M:tg judges. and still while i wasn't involved in the decision i would feel that the staff knows best. and if he was deamed cheating then the penalty for any event be a CC a PR or BR is DQ. it might not be cool but that is there ruling.

Would it seem fishy if a good person with a good deck went undefeated vs good matchups for his deck? Are you serious? He had one torn sleeve, that is hardly trying to cheat. If he wanted to cheat, he could have taken his finger and use the oil fron it to write a pattern on the sleeve to make it so that he could tell what it was, but no one else would even think about that as cheating. Seriously, how PARANIOD do you have to be to say "You are DQ'd not because you did anything but because you happened to have a torn sleeve in your deck and it happened to be a card that wasn't even key in any of the matches that you really played. We feel you cheated by not keeping a GPS system to constantly monitor the condition of your sleeves."

A ruling isn't always right, a judge at a BR told a friend of mine he HAD to get a supporter with castaway, and he continued to argue the point until he called over the head judge. He then tried to give my buddy a penalty for argueing with him. Judges are human, they make mistakes and stupid decisions. Rather than remain silent for this, I'd say "that is wrong" so that they don't DO that again, because if that was a just call (for this leve of tournoment), then The End is near

If this were a state championship or higher I would have agreed with the DQ 100%. But its a City Championship. This is asinine, how are you even TRYING to argue this?

 

[GinoLombardi21]

You said it yourself if the mark was on a energy it was unintentional. Did u ever think about a cowincidence? If your know anything about his deck Gallade is more important then Gardevoir so why isn't gallade marked? IMO u overlooked the situation and seeing hes been to a handful of events what would he have to gain? Because hes new he cant do that well? Alex and John frezza are new and alex won a BR and they both top 4'd before. Also if cards are marked or if your opponent thinks you are cheating I could swear your opponent has the option to shuffle their deck! MY advice to anyone is do what I did at citys. Get your deck checked before the tournament! So you can avoid all this stuff. Seriously to cara learn how to take a loss and not make excuses! If anyone has to complain watch me and john blazes matchup in the first round and then say something! I'll be honest my 2 losses were so close battles it was such a fun event for me.

 

[Skull Bash]

Hello everyone
Mike was not dqed for one bad sleeve. He was dqed for playing with marked cards. His sleeves were marked intentional or not. The fact is that his energies did not have the same wear patterns that his other cards had. His best pokemon in his deck had the rip, while another card that combos with it was clarly marked. The real problem we had with his sleeves was how his cards were clearly marked. This was nicely explained to Mike.

The fact is that we took our time to really think this one out. We don't disqualify players happily. I had a few of my friends who play magic look at the sleeves. These players know nothing about pokemon and yet picked out the patterns. So again Mike you were not disquailifed for a bad sleeve. You were disqualified for playing with MARKED CARDS. Sleeves usually show wear patterns. Yours did not. Yours had markes on them in different places. Some of your marks were long scratches in nature while others were dings, and several were swirls. I took the time to try to discuss this with you. You were not interested.

It is my hope that the pokemon player communtiy will learn to appreciate the judging staffs out there that do thier best to keep the tournaments well run and FAIR. We don't care who wins or loses. What we do care about is that the players come to a well run, fair event. Mike knew that his sleeves were worn. Why didn't he have a judge look them over? We are doing deck checks at all competitive level events. Players who have rules questions should ask them. It is better to know the rules than knowilng break them and face the consequences.

think about it

Tom Shea
PTO New England

The name's Brandon. Thanks.

First of all, I respect your ruling and always did. Never did, and still don't agree with it, but I always respected it. Throughout the whole process of deck checking all I did was talk calmly with you, and talk about what happened.

There were no patterns with the cards. You can say Gardevoir was folded, but you can't say anything else with the deck. There were SEVERAL cards which were used, it had nothing to do with any of the other cards in the deck. If it did, why didn't you tell me directly at the event? The only card you showed me was Gardevoir. You would think you would explain the entire situation to the player you're DQ'ing, but I guess not..

My cards DID show wear. The way I shuffle sometimes leaves Gashes. It also has to do with the fact that I don't use deckboxes, so whenever I bring my deck somewhere I just put it in my pocket. Thus sometimes a card "folds."

You took the time to discuss it with me and I listened. Were you expecting me to be passionate and happy about this? Because if that's what you were expecting, I'm not going to be happy after I was just DQ'ed. You said to me that having marked cards is a serious penalty. You said nothing about what you thought the actual "marks" were. Nothing about swirls, or bends or anything.

The first thing I actually heard about a deck check was when Gino did it about 5 minutes before the event.

Like I said before, IT IS MY FAULT. The blame falls on me for letting somebody DQ me. However, the fact that I got DQ'ed for "Marked" cards, was not the right ruling at all. Most of the sleeves had some sort of damage, and you know that. Tell it how it is. The punishment didn't fit the crime.

 

[DarkMagnus]

Would it seem fishy if a good person with a good deck went undefeated vs good matchups for his deck? Are you serious? He had one torn sleeve, that is hardly trying to cheat. If he wanted to cheat, he could have taken his finger and use the oil fron it to write a pattern on the sleeve to make it so that he could tell what it was, but no one else would even think about that as cheating. Seriously, how PARANIOD do you have to be to say "You are DQ'd not because you did anything but because you happened to have a torn sleeve in your deck and it happened to be a card that wasn't even key in any of the matches that you really played. We feel you cheated by not keeping a f***ing GPS system to constantly monitor the condition of your sleeves."

A ruling isn't always right, a judge at a BR told a friend of mine he HAD to get a supporter with castaway, and he continued to argue the point until he called over the head judge. He then tried to give my buddy a penalty for argueing with him. Judges are human, they make mistakes and stupid decisions. Rather than remain silent for this, I'd say "that is wrong" so that they don't DO that again, because if that was a just call (for this leve of tournoment), then The End is near

If this were a state championship or higher I would have agreed with the DQ 100%. But its a City Championship. This is asinine, how are you even TRYING to argue this?

Because Tom shea has been judging Gaming events long enough to know when something might have been blatant, i am sorry for the misfortune that you might not trust your judges but the judges in the Ne area attempt to Judge rulings to the best of there ability and if Mr. Shea says he cheated and the sleeve markings where confermed by others YOU WEREN"T THERE! so that is how i can argue the point ! and Gino you know as well as i that while Gallade might be the hitter Gardy is what makes the deck go.

i will not argue this point more as it is UNSPORTING! but plz belive what is said by a VETERAN OFFICIAL!
thank you all for your time ( PS Cara is one of the best losers i know... not to burn her.....at least she didn't cry and try and quit becuase of a loss or a missed cut, she plays with her heart and is a stand up person GL cara and CONGRADS ON YOUR CITY WIN!)

 

[applecat]

Haha...funny, very funny, hold on.

First of all, get your facts right. Like I said, the tear was on my REGULAR Gardevoir. Now...let's continue:

You never reminded me if I already attached an energy. EVER. You ASKED me if I had attached an energy and I let you know that I did.

Now..with that said, let's call a spade a spade..Me and my crew don't go to every event and try to make friends with every character there so we're looked upon as "inferiors" by a lot of members there...you included. Because of this, when one of us does well in a tournament, it isn't like we're just fighting for ourselves, it's like we're fighting a whole community of people. I haven't been to that many tournaments. Maybe 4. I had no idea what the ruling was on a ripped sleeve, and maybe I took looking at my deck a little too calmly.

Now..on to me cheating. Hmm...maybe the reason why I had the Celio's I needed was because I used Stantler's Lead about 3 or 4 times..or maybe because I already had Gardevoir on the field and was using 2 supporters a turn. I've never seen somebody so bitter about a loss.....ever.

Poor guy routine? Well, actually I took my punishment as a man and graciously stood there because I ultimately put the blame on myself, and still do so. I never once didn't take blame for the fact that my sleeve had a rip.

Admit it, you never saw anything wrong with my sleeves. You cut my deck almost every shuffle, and looked at them several times. If there was a problem you would have said something on the spot. Now I know why you looked so bitter when you were losing...You couldn't stand losing to me. I hope I play you again in Rhode Island...with REGULAR sleeves.

You're right, the truth does come out...that truth being that I was 4-0 and allowed somebody else to take that away from me, and it will NEVER happen again. While you on the other hand...I'd suggest learning how to take a loss, and get your facts right before speaking again.

I've been going to tournments for a few years now, and for the most part it would be agreed on that I'm a VERY nice person. I was nice to you during our match and after, and even wished you luck. I was not once bitter to you during our match. In fact I believe I even cracked a few jokes with you. I'm not a poor loser, because actually I'm pretty darn good at losing, and it's not something that bothers me because it happens most of the time.

Something that bothers me is proven cheaters. You weren't JUST DQ'd for a torn sleeve (on whatever card it was gardy or gardy x, my bad). It was ruled by all the judges and even magic judges that your cards were MARKED. That's what bothers me about the whole situation.

For you to come on here and act like it was just a torn sleeve and that's why you get DQ'd, well that's pretty one sided. If you're going to tell why you got DQ'd, tell the whole reason.

I wasn't even the opponent who went to the judges to tell them anything, but I was asked about my game with you. Doesn't it seem kind of odd that more than 1 of your opponents would say something about your deck or the way that you play? Don't try to play the whole "me against the world" thing, because that has nothing to do with it. I don't even know your other opponent so it's not like I was walking around going "HEY, LET'S TRY TO GET DUDE DQ'D BECAUSE I LOST."

If I'm bitter about anything, it's your trying to leave out important facts to try to make other people look bad. Cheating is cheating. You were letting everyone here get the wrong impression on what happened.

The next thing you'll try to argue is "NE judges are out to get everyone". So why was it that not only the pokemon staff could identify these markings, because Magic judges as well? How can you argue against that?

 

[GinoLombardi21]

The next thing you'll try to argue is "NE judges are out to get everyone". So why was it that not only the pokemon staff could identify these markings, because Magic judges as well? How can you argue against that?

I truely sadly believe some NE judges are out to get certain players but im not getting into that. Magic is not the same as pokemon. Do not compare the two. How can you compare greatness with garbage? A veteran judge doesnt mean anything. There are veteran judges in sports that still make bad calls all the time. Experience goes a long way but pokemons rulings shouldnt be the same or near mtg rulings.

 

[Skull Bash]

I've been going to tournments for a few years now, and for the most part it would be agreed on that I'm a VERY nice person. I was nice to you during our match and after, and even wished you luck. I was not once bitter to you during our match. In fact I believe I even cracked a few jokes with you. I'm not a poor loser, because actually I'm pretty darn good at losing, and it's not something that bothers me because it happens most of the time.

Something that bothers me is proven cheaters. You weren't JUST DQ'd for a torn sleeve (on whatever card it was gardy or gardy x, my bad). It was ruled by all the judges and even magic judges that your cards were MARKED. That's what bothers me about the whole situation.

For you to come on here and act like it was just a torn sleeve and that's why you get DQ'd, well that's pretty one sided. If you're going to tell why you got DQ'd, tell the whole reason.

I wasn't even the opponent who went to the judges to tell them anything, but I was asked about my game with you. Doesn't it seem kind of odd that more than 1 of your opponents would say something about your deck or the way that you play? Don't try to play the whole "me against the world" thing, because that has nothing to do with it. I don't even know your other opponent so it's not like I was walking around going "HEY, LET'S TRY TO GET DUDE DQ'D BECAUSE I LOST."

If I'm bitter about anything, it's your trying to leave out important facts to try to make other people look bad. Cheating is cheating. You were letting everyone here get the wrong impression on what happened.

The next thing you'll try to argue is "NE judges are out to get everyone". So why was it that not only the pokemon staff could identify these markings, because Magic judges as well? How can you argue against that?

I thought you were a very nice person...until you went online and began making accusations based on information you "heard."

So..since when am I a proven cheater? It's proven that I had a tear on my sleeves. Nobody I faced thought I cheated...well besides maybe you AFTER you heard the ruling.

I'm not acting like anything. It happened to me, I know what it is. The sleeve was torn, I didn't mark any of the cards beforehand.

Nah..I think you're bitter about losing. Like I said, if you thought I had cheated, you would have seen something during the battle. If you thought my sleeve was marked, you would have seen it during the battle. The fact is you cut my deck several times, and I used Lead with stantler several times. I also used Telepass with Gardevoir several times. THATS the reason why I had the cards I needed.

I told the story exactly how I happened and exactly how the judges told me. Like I just said, the judges told me GARDEVOIR had a mark on it. They told me nothing about the other cards they "found."

 

[SPARTA]

Because Tom shea has been judging Gaming events long enough to know when something might have been blatant, i am sorry for the misfortune that you might not trust your judges but the judges in the Ne area attempt to Judge rulings to the best of there ability and if Mr. Shea says he cheated and the sleeve markings where confermed by others YOU WEREN"T THERE! so that is how i can argue the point ! and Gino you know as well as i that while Gallade might be the hitter Gardy is what makes the deck go.

I live in FL, I trust Hiedi Craig and John Silvestro with my life. I wasn't there, you are right, because if I w as, you would have me come right up to the judges and ask what the heck their problem is

-DQing him for a card in his deck with a torn sleeve that wasn't even done on purpose
-The condition of the other cards, all of which were seemingly worn due to extensive play
-The fact that other card sleeves were damaged and the judge didn't even tell him this

I guess I'm just spoiled with judges who don't make blatantly wrong calls....

i will not argue this point more as it is UNSPORTING! but plz belive what is said by a VETERAN OFFICIAL!
thank you all for your time ( PS Cara is one of the best losers i know... not to burn her.....at least she didn't cry and try and quit becuase of a loss or a missed cut, she plays with her heart and is a stand up person GL cara and CONGRADS ON YOUR CITY WIN!)

I do believe it. I also believe that the judge wasn't bieng malicious or mean with the call. I do believe 100% that this was completely wrong, and that he should have been given a caution and told to either resleeve, play without sleeves, or replace the broken sleeves.

 

[applecat]

I truely sadly believe some NE judges are out to get certain players but im not getting into that. Magic is not the same as pokemon. Do not compare the two. How can you compare greatness with garbage? A veteran judge doesnt mean anything. There are veteran judges in sports that still make bad calls all the time. Experience goes a long way but pokemons rulings shouldnt be the same or near mtg rulings.

Marked sleeves in any game, is still MARKED SLEEVES.

I'll say it again, cheating is cheating. No matter what game you play.

We could give you 1,000 pokemon judges with the same ruling, and you would always find something to complain about in the situation.

 

[vanderbilt_grad]

There is a very simple explanation as to why some sleves can get marked in "patterns" ... I’ve noticed that when I exchange sleves from one deck to the next I tend to take the Pokemon out and then put new Pokemon in those now empty sleves. Ditto for the Energy. Many supporters stay from deck to deck and don’t get resleved and those that do tend to replace other supporters. Any wear marks that are common to one type of use tend to accumulate over time. This can lead to most of a certain type of card have similar "markings" that only get more pronounced. After seeing this I now try to unsleve most of my stuff and then shuffle the empty sleves before filling them just to combat this trend. Also when any sleve seems to be getting bumps or bends I try to replace them before events.

No idea what happened in this case either from the player or judges perspective. But just reporting an observation that others might find useful for future use.

 

[Big Daddy Snorlax]

OK, for the most part this thread has proven to be a good discussion of what to be aware of in a competitive tournament environment, a glimpse behind the scenes into how judging decisions are made and some dos and don'ts for players. However, when it get's personal or accusations start flying it crosses the line of what's acceptable on the Gym. Skull Bash and applecat need to take their personal discussion elsewhere or this thread will be locked and appropriate infractions and/or bans will be issued. I'll leave it open for now, but watch what you post and make sure you stick to facts not opinions.

BDS

 

[applecat]

I thought you were a very nice person...until you went online and began making accusations based on information you "heard."

So..since when am I a proven cheater? It's proven that I had a tear on my sleeves. Nobody I faced thought I cheated...well besides maybe you AFTER you heard the ruling.

I'm not acting like anything. It happened to me, I know what it is. The sleeve was torn, I didn't mark any of the cards beforehand.

Nah..I think you're bitter about losing. Like I said, if you thought I had cheated, you would have seen something during the battle. If you thought my sleeve was marked, you would have seen it during the battle. The fact is you cut my deck several times, and I used Lead with stantler several times. I also used Telepass with Gardevoir several times. THATS the reason why I had the cards I needed.

I told the story exactly how I happened and exactly how the judges told me. Like I just said, the judges told me GARDEVOIR had a mark on it. They told me nothing about the other cards they "found."

You just admitted in another reply that it was mentioned to you about marked cards.

It's proven you cheated by the ruling that was made and you being DQ'd. I HEARD what everyone else heard. That you were DQ'd because of marked cards. I was very nice to you up until that happened, but like I said before I don't have respect for cheaters. You can win against me every single game if you want, but I've never been bitter over a loss. Only over you trying to spin your one-sided story of how everyone's out to get you, and making other people who made good calls look bad.

And obviously SOMEONE you faced thought you cheated, because someone else went up to the judges and said something to them.

 

[DarkMagnus]

then Sparta ask your officails what they would do if they belived that a player was cheating and using Marked cards if they Are good officails then they would DQ as per the rules state in 7.2.2 is states that further investigation may be required to determine if the marked cards are intetional if this proves to be the case the penatly should be escalated to unsporting conduct: Cheating ...7.6.4 Cheating then says in ALL TEIR EVENTS TO DQ .... read your rules they are your freind...

 

[applecat]

OK, for the most part this thread has proven to be a good discussion of what to be aware of in a competitive tournament environment, a glimpse behind the scenes into how judging decisions are made and some dos and don'ts for players. However, when it get's personal or accusations start flying it crosses the line of what's acceptable on the Gym. Skull Bash and applecat need to take their personal discussion elsewhere or this thread will be locked and appropriate infractions and/or bans will be issued. I'll leave it open for now, but watch what you post and make sure you stick to facts not opinions.

BDS

Ah, sorry. I didn't see your reply until I had already posted mine.

 

[Skull Bash]

You just admitted in another reply that it was mentioned to you about marked cards.

It's proven you cheated by the ruling that was made and you being DQ'd. I HEARD what everyone else heard. That you were DQ'd because of marked cards. I was very nice to you up until that happened, but like I said before I don't have respect for cheaters. You can win against me every single game if you want, but I've never been bitter over a loss. Only over you trying to spin your one-sided story of how everyone's out to get you, and making other people who made good calls look bad.

And obviously SOMEONE you faced thought you cheated, because someone else went up to the judges and said something to them.

Obviously all of what I'm saying is going over your head cause you continuously try to focus in on one point. Because of this, I'm not gonna say anything else to you on this same issue besides in this post.

It isn't proven I cheated. It's proven my cards had marks on them. Yes, you did hear what everyone else heard. What did everyone else hear? Nobody knows what the situation is besides the people I talked to and the people the judges talked to.

I will win against you every game I want. I already won fair and square, and I'll do it again. I never cheated, and I never will.

You're acting like I've taken no responsibility in this. I took full responsibility in my very first post in this topic, and I will continue to do so. It's my fault for giving them something to DQ me over. I still don't agree with the ruling and never will, but I respect the judges had to make a ruling and they made the one they felt was right. Afterwards, I took the ruling, and it was what it was. I did have sleeves that somebody might be able to deem marked. A lot of the cards were damaged, however. Thats how it is. I'm not making this up.

 

[SPARTA]

then Sparta ask your officails what they would do if they belived that a player was cheating and using Marked cards if they Are good officails then they would DQ as per the rules state in 7.2.2 is states that further investigation may be required to determine if the marked cards are intetional if this proves to be the case the penatly should be escalated to unsporting conduct: Cheating ...7.6.4 Cheating then says in ALL TEIR EVENTS TO DQ .... read your rules they are your freind...

If they believed someone was cheating, they would be investigated, and they would take it from there. A ripped sleeve when the sleeves are CLEARLY worn isn't cheating. With that said the rest of your post falls apart. Care to try again?

 

[Skull Bash]

then Sparta ask your officails what they would do if they belived that a player was cheating and using Marked cards if they Are good officails then they would DQ as per the rules state in 7.2.2 is states that further investigation may be required to determine if the marked cards are intetional if this proves to be the case the penatly should be escalated to unsporting conduct: Cheating ...7.6.4 Cheating then says in ALL TEIR EVENTS TO DQ .... read your rules they are your freind...

Yes, and I have a problem with this. I have a problem because there is a seperate category for "marked" cards. My cards were marked. I did not cheat. It was very obvious that my whole deck was damaged, therefore, it was unintentional. There was no kind of information the judges had that would have made the call to be a cheating penalty rather than a marked card penalty. If this happened to a handful of other people, I could bet the ruling would have been different.

 

[Lordofflareons]

man, once i broke a sleeve at worlds, without even knowing it. it was topdecked after prizes were drawn, and the girl i played against noticed it first. she said, you got another sleeve? and i didn't. i ended up un sleeving my deck, and playing bare for a game.she was real good about it. why has this game become so horrible in the past year or so? why cant we just realize our mistakes and chill the **** out? if your deck was damaged, why didn;t you at least take the deck check?

Oh, and good job though. you would've won i just know it.