CT Cities Report(How to screw yourself over)

[KingOfKings715]

This is a little over reaction by the judges, one of my friends that played in the grinder, he played against a guy with clear sleeves. Get this one of the guy's cards were jpn and a couple were diff type of clear sleeves, and yet he still didnt get even a game loss just the chance to switch sleeves : /

Overreaction!? The marks were clearly marked apprantly, to go 4-0 then find out that guy clearly was using a marked deck what your gonna do oh game lose!? Wow i would so love that lolz Then everyone would do it. It wasnt cause of the sleeves being a bit riped its that they were clearly marked. He clearly cheated, just move on to the next tournament where now he learned his lesson hopefully and kick ***, end of story

P.S.-Gino, your guy is a flunkie and i spit hawt fiya just letting you know since you so wanted me to post herez :lol:

 

[secretsof2113]

I have no desire to take the bait on this. My opinion stands and that is what it remained. I don't see how an opinion can count as "Being out of line.", but whatever.

I am of the firm belief that deck checks should be made regardless to prevent things like this from occurring. I am not questioning the way you run your tournaments, sir, yet I have my own beliefs on the matter. Is it wrong to express such a thing, perhaps a concern? As I said, I can understand it at much larger turn outs, but still. People can be singled out, accidents can occur, and poor judgement can be made.



I don't, actually. Every tournament I have ever judged in has had deck registration pre-tournament, and I make absolutely sure that all sleeves are taken care of before a tournament even starts. In that matter, if someone is caught with dinged sleeves, even after we checked them before a tournament begins, then I know something is wrong.

I will always get my deck checked for this reason because I know a judge will not be afraid to tell me if something is wrong with my sleeves. I was questioned at nationals, but they gave it the okay. In that essence, my trust in the judges judgement should also be taken to account because I allowed them to check it and give it the okay. If I got a DQ, after one of the judges firmly checked my deck, and I was obviously not messing with my deck (as I am not the type to do that, being a professor and knowing full well the consequences), I would obviously be ticked off. People can miss things, people might not even notice. Why a DQ? I don't know. Its your call, I will not question it, even though I do not believe it to be right.

on top of what naki said....tournaments in our area...when you register decks, you get them checked..no ifs, ands, or buts about it. We had 40+ players at ours yesterday, and everything went smoothly. We had one illegal decklist/illegal deck in top cut that was miscounted in deck check....but otherwise, things were fine. I strongly believe that deck checks should occur in these smaller tournaments. It really doesn't take that much longer.

 

[Skull Bash]

Overreaction!? The marks were clearly marked apprantly, to go 4-0 then find out that guy clearly was using a marked deck what your gonna do oh game lose!? Wow i would so love that lolz Then everyone would do it. It wasnt cause of the sleeves being a bit riped its that they were clearly marked. He clearly cheated, just move on to the next tournament where now he learned his lesson hopefully and kick ***, end of story

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:



P.S.-Gino, your guy is a flunkie and i spit hawt fiya just letting you know since you so wanted me to post herez :lol:

I didn't cheat. I played with cards that had some marks on them. I'm 99.9% sure that I'm right in the fact that almost every card in the deck was damaged. The outcome of my 4-0 record had nothing to do with the verdict.

 

[KingOfKings715]

I didn't cheat. I played with cards that had some marks on them. I'm 99.9% sure that I'm right in the fact that almost every card in the deck was damaged. The outcome of my 4-0 record had nothing to do with the verdict.

guy im just trying to **** Gino off lolz I wasnt there i have no clue what happened, there is 2 sides to every story. But by posting that its gonna **** Gino off a lot which would them make me happy :biggrin:

Do i honestly think you cheated? No. Does it really matter what i think? God no.

Just have fun and enjoy the game. Play with new sleeves and dont let any judges get to you or give them a chance to DQ you. Point of the game is to have fun and annoy Gino as much as you possiblly can, period. Btw Colts r completely crippled they would be lucky to even make it in the AFC championship match to get slaughter agaisnt the patriots :frown: They betta make it there so i can see them get massacred.

 

[bugsbite]

I think decks need to checked at all events regardless, the rules need to be changed to state that IMHO.

Honestly I could find some kind of marks in any deck with sleeves, the only ones that don't have not been used.

Tom Shea wrote:

"The rules state that playing with marked cards is cheating." Well not really.


15.1. Cheating
Cheating includes, but is not limited to, drawing extra cards, altering the contents
of a deck after an event begins, manipulating the outcome of a legitimate coin
flip, altering Card-Dex entries to misrepresent foreign cards, and misrepresenting
game state.

15.4. Marked Cards
Players are responsible for ensuring that their cards and/or card sleeves are not
marked in any way. A card is considered marked if it bears something that makes
it possible to identify the card without seeing its face, including scratches, tears,
discoloration, bends, and so forth.
If a player’s cards are sleeved, the sleeves are considered to be part of the cards,
so the cards must be examined while in the sleeves to determine if there is a
marked card situation.
Cards with different backs or a different cut from the other cards in a deck are not
considered marked as long as the entire deck is placed in non-marked, completely
opaque-backed card sleeves.
The Head Judge is the final authority in determining whether a card or sleeve in a
player’s deck is considered marked.

and the penalties:

7.2. Marked Cards
Cards in a player’s decks that are clearly distinguishable from other cards in the deck
are called marked. A variety of conditions can cause the cards in a player’s deck to
become marked. Because marked cards can give a player foresight into the next card
that he or she will draw, the contents of his or her deck, or the location of a specific
card in the player’s deck, marked cards cannot be allowed in a player’s deck at a
sanctioned Pokémon TCG event. If the problem is caught during deck checks prior to
the start of the event, these errors can be corrected without issuing a penalty.
Players are always responsible for the condition of their cards and card sleeves, even
if any problems were missed by the event staff during a previous deck check.
7.2.1. Minor
Over the course of standard game play, cards and sleeves become worn. When a
few of these cards become distinguishable from the rest of the cards in the deck,
action must be taken to correct this. Placing the deck in card sleeves (if
unsleeved) or replacing the damaged sleeves (if sleeved) usually solves the
problem. If there is no pattern to these marked cards, this penalty is applicable.
Examples of Marked Cards: Minor include:
• A small number of sleeves which are distinguishably bent or scuffed.
• Sleeves of varying lengths due to errors in manufacturing.
• Discolored card backs on a few cards in the deck.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Caution
Tier 2: Caution
7.2.2. Major
This penalty applies to a player who has a significant number of cards or sleeves
marked and there is a noticeable but unintentional pattern. Further investigation
may be required to determine if the markings are intentional. If this proves to be
the case, the penalty should be escalated to Unsporting Conduct: Cheating, and
the appropriate action should be taken.
Examples of Marked Cards: Major include:
• Thumb marks along the backs of sleeves containing key cards in your
deck.
• All of your Pokémon ex are bent, allowing you to see which cards they are
when the deck is sitting flat.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Warning
Tier 2: Warning

7.6.4. Cheating
Cheating is the highest form of Unsporting Conduct that a player can display.
Players who intentionally commit infractions are looking to gain an unfair
advantage over other players at the event. The Head Judge should carefully
consider whether an infraction was intentional or not before applying this penalty.
If the Head Judge feels that an infraction was unintentional, this penalty
should not be applied.
Examples of Unsporting Conduct: Cheating include:
• Drawing extra cards.
• Taking cards from the discard pile and adding them to your hand or deck.
• Offering some form of compensation to an opponent for a concession.
• Altering match results after the conclusion of the match.
• Playing with marked cards.
• Lying to event staff.
• Modification of the Card-Dex to misrepresent official card text.
• Arbitrarily adjusting the Special Conditions or damage counters put on
any Pokémon in play.
• Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into
making misplays.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Disqualification
Tier 2: Disqualification

I work in an industry where we are under FDA regulations and they have rules and regulations that protect the consumer from harm or death and they have major consequences. These rules are guidelines for the FDA inspectors and they determine the penalty or punishment. I find it interesting that almost most of the time a minor infraction is given unless they are 100% sure that harm can be done to the consumer.

I think the main problem is that game has been taken a bit too seriously. It is not like we are playing for high stakes like large cash prizes , expensive prizes or for our lives at CC any other event. It is a game please lighten up people.

 

[JokerBoi]

They were seriously hating on you...I wouldn't want to play anymore.

 

[KingOfKings715]

They were seriously hating on you...I wouldn't want to play anymore.

Only flunkies quit, players that continue on spit hawt fiya!! I doubt bash will quit just cause of this.

 

[SPARTA]

So many scrubs spreading so much hate... =/.

 

[Let Fire Fall]

Overreaction!? The marks were clearly marked apprantly, to go 4-0 then find out that guy clearly was using a marked deck what your gonna do oh game lose!? Wow i would so love that lolz Then everyone would do it. It wasnt cause of the sleeves being a bit riped its that they were clearly marked. He clearly cheated, just move on to the next tournament where now he learned his lesson hopefully and kick ***, end of story

His deck had good macthups against the decks he went against. It's not hard to win 4 games...

 

[GinoLombardi21]

7.2. Marked Cards
Cards in a player’s decks that are clearly distinguishable from other cards in the deck
are called marked. A variety of conditions can cause the cards in a player’s deck to
become marked. Because marked cards can give a player foresight into the next card
that he or she will draw, the contents of his or her deck, or the location of a specific
card in the player’s deck, marked cards cannot be allowed in a player’s deck at a
sanctioned Pokémon TCG event. If the problem is caught during deck checks prior to
the start of the event, these errors can be corrected without issuing a penalty.
Players are always responsible for the condition of their cards and card sleeves, even
if any problems were missed by the event staff during a previous deck check.

7.6.4. Cheating
Cheating is the highest form of Unsporting Conduct that a player can display.
Players who intentionally commit infractions are looking to gain an unfair
advantage over other players at the event. The Head Judge should carefully
consider whether an infraction was intentional or not before applying this penalty.
If the Head Judge feels that an infraction was unintentional, this penalty
should not be applied.
Examples of Unsporting Conduct: Cheating include:
• Drawing extra cards.
• Taking cards from the discard pile and adding them to your hand or deck.
• Offering some form of compensation to an opponent for a concession.
• Altering match results after the conclusion of the match.
• Playing with marked cards.
• Lying to event staff.
• Modification of the Card-Dex to misrepresent official card text.
• Arbitrarily adjusting the Special Conditions or damage counters put on
any Pokémon in play.
• Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into
making misplays.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Disqualification
Tier 2: Disqualification

Look Ik brandon as a friend. I know for a fact he wouldnt mark his cards. What ever the head judge rules is final. He sad he saw a pattern of the sleeves, a mark on a good card, and made the ruling that hes sleeves were marked and it would go under the cheating guidelines. It stinks as you have to watch that as a friend but this sunday is a little pay back!

 

[Professor Dav]

I have no desire to take the bait on this. My opinion stands and that is what it remained. I don't see how an opinion can count as "Being out of line.", but whatever.

I am of the firm belief that deck checks should be made regardless to prevent things like this from occurring. I am not questioning the way you run your tournaments, sir, yet I have my own beliefs on the matter. Is it wrong to express such a thing, perhaps a concern? As I said, I can understand it at much larger turn outs, but still. People can be singled out, accidents can occur, and poor judgement can be made.



I don't, actually. Every tournament I have ever judged in has had deck registration pre-tournament, and I make absolutely sure that all sleeves are taken care of before a tournament even starts. In that matter, if someone is caught with dinged sleeves, even after we checked them before a tournament begins, then I know something is wrong.

I will always get my deck checked for this reason because I know a judge will not be afraid to tell me if something is wrong with my sleeves. I was questioned at nationals, but they gave it the okay. In that essence, my trust in the judges judgement should also be taken to account because I allowed them to check it and give it the okay. If I got a DQ, after one of the judges firmly checked my deck, and I was obviously not messing with my deck (as I am not the type to do that, being a professor and knowing full well the consequences), I would obviously be ticked off. People can miss things, people might not even notice. Why a DQ? I don't know. Its your call, I will not question it, even though I do not believe it to be right.

I still don't understand why I'm getting singled out because of an opinion. I feel quite offended by this sudden attack, and it was very much uncalled for.

By discussing an issue that you do not have all of the information for, and were not at the event for, you have opened yourself up to this criticism. Your better choice would have been to post a question about this ruling on the Official Professor forums, or contact the parties involved in the ruling, and then discuss it there. Instead, you decided that based upon the post of the person who received the penalty, you would tell the judges of that event, that they made a bad call.

As an FYI, 100% deck checks are not the solution.

Who really made the first attack here?

Professor Dave

 

[DarkMagnus]

I think decks need to checked at all events regardless, the rules need to be changed to state that IMHO.

Honestly I could find some kind of marks in any deck with sleeves, the only ones that don't have not been used.

Tom Shea wrote:

"The rules state that playing with marked cards is cheating." Well not really.


15.1. Cheating
Cheating includes, but is not limited to, drawing extra cards, altering the contents
of a deck after an event begins, manipulating the outcome of a legitimate coin
flip, altering Card-Dex entries to misrepresent foreign cards, and misrepresenting
game state.

15.4. Marked Cards
Players are responsible for ensuring that their cards and/or card sleeves are not
marked in any way. A card is considered marked if it bears something that makes
it possible to identify the card without seeing its face, including scratches, tears,
discoloration, bends, and so forth.
If a player’s cards are sleeved, the sleeves are considered to be part of the cards,
so the cards must be examined while in the sleeves to determine if there is a
marked card situation.
Cards with different backs or a different cut from the other cards in a deck are not
considered marked as long as the entire deck is placed in non-marked, completely
opaque-backed card sleeves.
The Head Judge is the final authority in determining whether a card or sleeve in a
player’s deck is considered marked.

and the penalties:

7.2. Marked Cards
Cards in a player’s decks that are clearly distinguishable from other cards in the deck
are called marked. A variety of conditions can cause the cards in a player’s deck to
become marked. Because marked cards can give a player foresight into the next card
that he or she will draw, the contents of his or her deck, or the location of a specific
card in the player’s deck, marked cards cannot be allowed in a player’s deck at a
sanctioned Pokémon TCG event. If the problem is caught during deck checks prior to
the start of the event, these errors can be corrected without issuing a penalty.
Players are always responsible for the condition of their cards and card sleeves, even
if any problems were missed by the event staff during a previous deck check.
7.2.1. Minor
Over the course of standard game play, cards and sleeves become worn. When a
few of these cards become distinguishable from the rest of the cards in the deck,
action must be taken to correct this. Placing the deck in card sleeves (if
unsleeved) or replacing the damaged sleeves (if sleeved) usually solves the
problem. If there is no pattern to these marked cards, this penalty is applicable.
Examples of Marked Cards: Minor include:
• A small number of sleeves which are distinguishably bent or scuffed.
• Sleeves of varying lengths due to errors in manufacturing.
• Discolored card backs on a few cards in the deck.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Caution
Tier 2: Caution
7.2.2. Major
This penalty applies to a player who has a significant number of cards or sleeves
marked and there is a noticeable but unintentional pattern. Further investigation
may be required to determine if the markings are intentional. If this proves to be
the case, the penalty should be escalated to Unsporting Conduct: Cheating, and
the appropriate action should be taken.Examples of Marked Cards: Major include:
• Thumb marks along the backs of sleeves containing key cards in your
deck.
• All of your Pokémon ex are bent, allowing you to see which cards they are
when the deck is sitting flat.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Warning
Tier 2: Warning

7.6.4. Cheating
Cheating is the highest form of Unsporting Conduct that a player can display.
Players who intentionally commit infractions are looking to gain an unfair
advantage over other players at the event. The Head Judge should carefully
consider whether an infraction was intentional or not before applying this penalty.
If the Head Judge feels that an infraction was unintentional, this penalty
should not be applied.
Examples of Unsporting Conduct: Cheating include:
• Drawing extra cards.
• Taking cards from the discard pile and adding them to your hand or deck.
• Offering some form of compensation to an opponent for a concession.
• Altering match results after the conclusion of the match.
• Playing with marked cards.
• Lying to event staff.
• Modification of the Card-Dex to misrepresent official card text.
• Arbitrarily adjusting the Special Conditions or damage counters put on
any Pokémon in play.
• Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into
making misplays.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Disqualification
Tier 2: Disqualification

I work in an industry where we are under FDA regulations and they have rules and regulations that protect the consumer from harm or death and they have major consequences. These rules are guidelines for the FDA inspectors and they determine the penalty or punishment. I find it interesting that almost most of the time a minor infraction is given unless they are 100% sure that harm can be done to the consumer.

I think the main problem is that game has been taken a bit too seriously. It is not like we are playing for high stakes like large cash prizes , expensive prizes or for our lives at CC any other event. It is a game please lighten up people.

Brandon in no way am i directing this to you mearly helping others to know why the decision was made as such, as other Professors and Judges seam to question it. I wish that this could ahve ended awhile ago and we all could ahve moved on but the fact these people question the staff decision is what promts this to keep going i still wish you the best of luck, and hope that this doesn't send you away from this fine game. and i hope the professors and other people will not act like children sending vulgar PMs.

 

[secretsof2113]

Naki is permitted to have his own opinion. And no, I'm not just looking out for him because he's my boyfriend. We have the right to develop an opinion based on the facts that we are given. No, we do not know if Brandon truly cheated, and we will never know. We're able to disagree with a ruling, and I don't feel that it's in any way out of line. Our opinions are based on how a situation like this would have been handled in one of our own events.

I don't feel that an attack was made either. Naki stated his opinion at the beginning of this topic. He wasn't personally going after the judges, just the ruling in question.

 

[Papi/Manny]

Naki is permitted to have his own opinion. And no, I'm not just looking out for him because he's my boyfriend. We have the right to develop an opinion based on the facts that we are given. No, we do not know if Brandon truly cheated, and we will never know. We're able to disagree with a ruling, and I don't feel that it's in any way out of line. Our opinions are based on how a situation like this would have been handled in one of our own events.

I don't feel that an attack was made either. Naki stated his opinion at the beginning of this topic. He wasn't personally going after the judges, just the ruling in question.

Making judgements without all nessicary facts is very unwise. Horray for eastern civ....lol

 

[Muninn]

I dont take cheap shots at ppl

You just did. "Hows them side events treatin ya?" Just for the record, I have been getting better.

Do me a favor Brian and don't tell anyone the stuff you traded me. Also, "Horray for eastern civ"? The civilization that housed Socrates? Soloman? Plato? That's what I thought. I'm pretty sure you meant western.

 

[bulbasnore]

That is a nonsense call and I would take it up with POP.

Except for the 'nonsense call' stuff, board admins have made this kind of response recently in 'player v. ruling' topics. Taking it up with POP is always the right thing to do: [email protected]. And indeed, Dav suggests posting in the Prof forum there for those that are profs, if forum discussion is desired.

Naki is permitted to have his own opinion.

Sure, but don't lose sight of what Prof Dav is saying. We weren't there.

Supporting one side or the other, to me, doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because we're picking the 'evidence' presented by one of the parties with vested interest, without the process or experience or neutrality that POP has. Believe it.

And, changing topic from what naki/secrets posted, it doesn't seem very friendly to me when a TO/PTO/Judge jumps in the middle of one of these PokeGym disputes and posts, 'never happens that way at my events, because...'. Sure, we are always perfect in our own eyes. To walk up in the middle of a heated dispute or dogpile and say, in effect, 'heh, if only they were like me, there wouldn't be a problem' is not too manly... or womanly. Not saying that happened in this thread, but I've seen it repeatedly in these types of threads over the years. Its ugly and I no longer feel obliged to let it pass quietly for the sake of PokeGym neutrality.

 

[Naki Feralkin]

And indeed, Dav suggests posting in the Prof forum there for those that are profs, if forum discussion is desired.

I will do so in the future. My apologies. I did just want to state an opinion though. I didn't expect it to go this far.

 

[KingOfKings715]

So many scrubs spreading so much hate... =/.

Arent you like one of the worst players in the game?? Arent you the one that likes Ludicolo with Flygon sw??

 

[secretsof2113]

Except for the 'nonsense call' stuff, board admins have made this kind of response recently in 'player v. ruling' topics. Taking it up with POP is always the right thing to do: [email protected]. And indeed, Dav suggests posting in the Prof forum there for those that are profs, if forum discussion is desired.



Sure, but don't lose sight of what Prof Dav is saying. We weren't there.

Supporting one side or the other, to me, doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because we're picking the 'evidence' presented by one of the parties with vested interest, without the process or experience or neutrality that POP has. Believe it.

And, changing topic from what naki/secrets posted, it doesn't seem very friendly to me when a TO/PTO/Judge jumps in the middle of one of these PokeGym disputes and posts, 'never happens that way at my events, because...'. Sure, we are always perfect in our own eyes. To walk up in the middle of a heated dispute or dogpile and say, in effect, 'heh, if only they were like me, there wouldn't be a problem' is not too manly... or womanly. Not saying that happened in this thread, but I've seen it repeatedly in these types of threads over the years. Its ugly and I no longer feel obliged to let it pass quietly for the sake of PokeGym neutrality.

I'm not losing sight of what was said. I honestly didn't see it going this far. Of course, we're all going to have ways we run things. We know this. And everyone will be different. That's one of the great things about this game. The decision making aspect is great. It's a great leadership role.

 

[SPARTA]

Arent you like one of the worst players in the game?? Arent you the one that likes Ludicolo with Flygon sw??

Speaking of scrubs spreading hate.... Where did you pull that from, Fantasyland? Grow up loser, keep it to PM\'s if ur gonna make yourself look like an idiot.