Broken Lizard
New Member
As I thought. Just my own pet peave. Case closed.
Carry on then!
Carry on then!
Dice as Damage Counters
- Thread starter Broken Lizard
- Start date
I find the use of dice to be more effective from being able to look at the field and calculating various things while still keeping your agenda secret from your opponent. I myself have trouble keeping track of such things and people like me would have to count out large amounts of gems turn after turn. I think after we got pokemon with more than 120 hp gems became kind of obsolete. Plus its just more convenient to roll dice. I most of the time have one die that I use for rolling and another few for damage. As for large amounts of damage, most of the time I switch to 12 sided or in rare cases d20 for like wailord EX.
The Anaconda
New Member
I use dice because they're easier myself. I've got this nice little Altoids box (Altoids gum box actually so it is pretty small) of the small dice that you get in the WoTC Star Wars starters, got 18 of them in there, and also a Team Aqua coin.
I use dice particulary because one of my main decks currently has Sandstorm Azumarril in it, and I usually can get six or more energies on it. Grabbing a handful of dice is a lot easier than flipping a coin a bunch of times. But for single flips I usually use the coin.
As far as damage counters go, I have another box of larger dice of various side numbers. It actually works rather well to do it that way, have different dice with different maxes to cover the whole range of HP possibilites.
I use dice particulary because one of my main decks currently has Sandstorm Azumarril in it, and I usually can get six or more energies on it. Grabbing a handful of dice is a lot easier than flipping a coin a bunch of times. But for single flips I usually use the coin.
As far as damage counters go, I have another box of larger dice of various side numbers. It actually works rather well to do it that way, have different dice with different maxes to cover the whole range of HP possibilites.
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Craft supply stores have come out with MINI glass floral beads which are about half the size of the original ones everyone uses as damage counters. I love them...but also use my nice box of yellow D6s for damage, too. For flips/rolls, I only use D20s. I hate coins, and hate when people take a die being used for damage to 'roll'...too easy to 'forget' how much damage it was showing...=/
'mom
'mom
i use dice because, as many have already said, its more convienient to keep 15 dice in a pouch than keeping 100 damage counters in a pouch and then finding out you run out...
I dont see a reason why they should be banned from tournaments. Of course its obvious to see if someone is cheating using dice, but lets put it liek this...
rigging a die is about as easy as calling a judge over...
my 2 cents,
Arthas "Renaissance" Zero
I dont see a reason why they should be banned from tournaments. Of course its obvious to see if someone is cheating using dice, but lets put it liek this...
rigging a die is about as easy as calling a judge over...
my 2 cents,
Arthas "Renaissance" Zero
Hedgefoxidna
New Member
I use a combination of dice and counters, when I run out of dice I use counters, but I DON'T mix them, that just gets even more confusing, I can usually keep track of dmg in my tho, my opponet's are not always the same.
Psycho_Lugia_X
New Member
I dunno, if it's a convienience issue, then I think you should just stick with the little poker chips they give you in theme decks.
I think they are easier to deal with. What I do is I tap my energy to the left and put them under the Poké. To the right of the Pokés I put in rows of six the chips, with space for Tools and stuff on the right side.
This way its pretty easier to count the chips easily and gives a courtesy to your opponent. You are being plain, you have no way to mess with hp counts. I think a little inconvienience is a fair trade for complete assurance that there's no funny stuff going on.
I think they are easier to deal with. What I do is I tap my energy to the left and put them under the Poké. To the right of the Pokés I put in rows of six the chips, with space for Tools and stuff on the right side.
This way its pretty easier to count the chips easily and gives a courtesy to your opponent. You are being plain, you have no way to mess with hp counts. I think a little inconvienience is a fair trade for complete assurance that there's no funny stuff going on.
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ShadowCard
Active Member
I don't mean to insult anyone here. Problem is, whenever someone says that you know that's how it is going to turn out 
When moving your cards around, you still have to move around the dice anyway which gives the opportunity to lose the number it is on. With the gems at least you'd be putting back the same amount that you took off. I was at a tourney where the judge removed the dice to look at the card and didn't put the dice back on, which confused us until we figured it out. We didn't know if the dice was there for rolling or for damage.
Sure, the same could happen for the gems but most people keep their unused gems at a distence away from the pokemon so there isn't confusion.
My only thing with the gems is that you end up having to count them out if a lot are on.
Is this how lazy we have become? We can't remove 10 little plastic gems from our cards and put them back on? I guess we loose all our energy shuffling through Oracles and Copycats that it has become too grueling to remove little gems.
When moving your cards around, you still have to move around the dice anyway which gives the opportunity to lose the number it is on. With the gems at least you'd be putting back the same amount that you took off. I was at a tourney where the judge removed the dice to look at the card and didn't put the dice back on, which confused us until we figured it out. We didn't know if the dice was there for rolling or for damage.
Sure, the same could happen for the gems but most people keep their unused gems at a distence away from the pokemon so there isn't confusion.
My only thing with the gems is that you end up having to count them out if a lot are on.
Jeremy Badeaux
New Member
That's not laziness, it's utilizing space properly.
I carry my cards in a bag that ways at least 50-60 pounds (without wheels), but does that mean I'm lazy just because I don't want to mess with those irritatingly small glass beads.
Laziness has nothing to do with this, and I'm wondering why you even brought it up...
Or, you could just pay attention to what you are doing (considering that you would need to make sure none of those glass beads fall off the table or land on another pokemon anyways).
People don't generally keep all of their spare dice sitting right next to their active either.
I have yet to see an arguement (on behalf of those who are opposed to dice) that makes a reasonable amount of sense.
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gnarlychar
New Member
Jeremy Badeaux said:
Same with those who who are opposed to coins. This whole thread has been big a big argument and is therefore useless. Please lock.
ShadowCard
Active Member
some of us don't carry 5 pounds
same for those dice which have a tendancy to roll around. I'd rather focus my attention on the plan for the next couple of turns than what number the dice is about to shift to.
doesn't matter. You'd mistake the dice for a randomizer instead of a damage marker.
It does show how bored we are
.
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Jeremy Badeaux
New Member
We do have a right to our own boredome I guess.
I've found that 10-sided dice rarely move when they are not meant to, and 6-sided dice should never move unless it's forced to.
I've also found that if a player is paying attention, said player should never mistake a damage dice for a randomizer (shouldn't be using anything bigger than 10-sided for damage, and should be using 20-sided for a randomizer).
There is a very valid reason why coins shouldn't be used (when dice are available),
Coins are very easy to rig (I could probably find a way to rig a coin in about 1 minute).
A 20-sided dice is a lot harder to rig , I know how to ensure that it never lands on a specific number (long story, pm me if you would like to hear it), but that still wouldn't ensure that I would get a heads flip every time I use it.
A 6-sided dice is barely more difficult to rig than a coin, but that's why you only use 20-sided or larger (I might start using 100-sided in a little while).
I've found that 10-sided dice rarely move when they are not meant to, and 6-sided dice should never move unless it's forced to.
I've also found that if a player is paying attention, said player should never mistake a damage dice for a randomizer (shouldn't be using anything bigger than 10-sided for damage, and should be using 20-sided for a randomizer).
There is a very valid reason why coins shouldn't be used (when dice are available),
Coins are very easy to rig (I could probably find a way to rig a coin in about 1 minute).
A 20-sided dice is a lot harder to rig , I know how to ensure that it never lands on a specific number (long story, pm me if you would like to hear it), but that still wouldn't ensure that I would get a heads flip every time I use it.
A 6-sided dice is barely more difficult to rig than a coin, but that's why you only use 20-sided or larger (I might start using 100-sided in a little while).
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Otaku
Active Member
On this matter, I think a fedw things must be established, even if they are obvious. First, cheating is easy... it's not getting caught thats hard. Second, there will always be cheaters-usually the harder it is to cheat, the more rewarding it is. Imagine if I have a rigged coin, and a compulsive gambler. By using a normal coin every now and then, and only betting on the outcome when it "really matters", I coudl probably "safely" scam him for snack money every few weeks at work, school, whatever. As long as I am not greedy and let him win, say, 1/3 of the time, he probably won't be worried enough to get paranoid. In terms of keeping track of damage, a lot of it depends on you. If you are paying attention like you should, you can say "No, that was a 9, not a 6, on that Pokemon. Remember, I hit you for 20, 30, and then 40 damage." If they persist on the lie, call a judge over, and let them know that you are positive that the dice has been changed. Yes, they may still get away with cheating that turn, but if they keep it up, they'll get caught. Same goes with damage counters-I can't sneak away 30 damage that easily, but a quick flick can heal 10, or at least give myself Damage Swap. In terms of messiness, counters lose-10 counters is a lot harder to control than one die whn retreating or the like. If you have a lot of trouble, set up a basic procedure-show your oppenent the die, carefully move it to the side, retreat/evolve/whatever, then move the die back.
As for rolling and flipping, the problem with most things past a d10 are they roll all over, basically defeating the purpose of control. I just use d6 myself for rolling and d12 for damage (other than Pokemon ex, its enough for HP). Since I just roll the d6, I don't grab the wrong die. Since my opponent is smart enough to roll the same die, cheating will backfire if they have more flips. thats another good way to discourage cheaters.
As for rolling and flipping, the problem with most things past a d10 are they roll all over, basically defeating the purpose of control. I just use d6 myself for rolling and d12 for damage (other than Pokemon ex, its enough for HP). Since I just roll the d6, I don't grab the wrong die. Since my opponent is smart enough to roll the same die, cheating will backfire if they have more flips. thats another good way to discourage cheaters.
Commander Paws
New Member
I use 12 sided dice for damage counters and coins flipping, there easier to use.
But, I'm trying to get one player to stop using the metal coin and start using a die for coins flipping. 'Cuz they can damage and dent cards when they land and they give me headaches every time the coin lands on wooden, hard plastic and metal tables.
*CLANG!* *CLANG!* *clang!* *clang!* I hate that.
But, I'm trying to get one player to stop using the metal coin and start using a die for coins flipping. 'Cuz they can damage and dent cards when they land and they give me headaches every time the coin lands on wooden, hard plastic and metal tables.
*CLANG!* *CLANG!* *clang!* *clang!* I hate that.
coolhedgie
New Member
I don't have time to read all of the posts on this topic, but I can say that using dice is much more efficient in my humble opinion. Players at worlds are going to be very attentive, and they will notice any slight change in the play area. Damage gems are also heavier and sometyimes bigger too; imagine having to use those on a heavily damaged Wailord ex. =/ Regardless, I use dice, and I have had opponents accidentally, and once or twice, intentionally tip the dice numbers, and I have caught them every time. It doesn't happen very often though, and usually you can tell if your opponent is the cheating type. If you sense that, then just watch them more carefully.
Or do what one guy I played did...
- Red counters = 10 damage
- Blue counters = 20 damage
- Clear counters = 50 damage
Sheez! I couldn't keep track of SQUAT! I finally insisted that we either use dice
or that each counter was 10 damage. He said he didn't have enough counters for
them to all be just 10, so we'd use the dice. Funny, funny stuff.
- Red counters = 10 damage
- Blue counters = 20 damage
- Clear counters = 50 damage
Sheez! I couldn't keep track of SQUAT! I finally insisted that we either use dice
or that each counter was 10 damage. He said he didn't have enough counters for
them to all be just 10, so we'd use the dice. Funny, funny stuff.
Dragonstar
New Member
I agree it is very easy for a player to knock the dice after a roll if your not watching them so they'll get the number they want. If the noise of the coin hitting the table anoys you then you may want to get one of those older play mats that were made of material since they almost complettely get rid of the noise itself or get one of the plastic coins that come in starter decks.
Jeremy Badeaux
New Member
Once again, all you have to do is pay attention to what your opponent does.
It's not rocket science, it's just keeping an eye on your opponent (what you should always do anyways).
Every possible problem with dice is cured by simply not giving your opponent the chance to cheat (fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me ).
I kind of collect dice (counting nothing more than 20-sided dice, I have 26), so it's easy to see why I take interest in this topic.
I honestly think that dice are the most efficient form of stat tracking and randomization that is currently available to us.
EDIT: The dice count is in.
20-sided: 26
12-sided: 5
10-sided: 13
8-sided: 5
6-sided: 94
4-sided: 5
Total:148
I go after the stuff that you would find at http://www.Chessex.com
It's not rocket science, it's just keeping an eye on your opponent (what you should always do anyways).
Every possible problem with dice is cured by simply not giving your opponent the chance to cheat (fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me
).I kind of collect dice (counting nothing more than 20-sided dice, I have 26), so it's easy to see why I take interest in this topic.
I honestly think that dice are the most efficient form of stat tracking and randomization that is currently available to us.
EDIT: The dice count is in.
20-sided: 26
12-sided: 5
10-sided: 13
8-sided: 5
6-sided: 94
4-sided: 5
Total:148
I go after the stuff that you would find at http://www.Chessex.com
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DarkSideComma S.P.A.R.K.S
New Member
lol, it isn't hard to collect dice. Especially when they sell those 36 packs or 6 for CHEAP.
But yes. keep an eye on your opponant. Make sure they arn't cheating, picking up the dice and rolling them. Stuff like that.
But yes. keep an eye on your opponant. Make sure they arn't cheating, picking up the dice and rolling them. Stuff like that.