Donking, and why it is suddenly a big concern for the community

[Yoshi-]

I only have problems with the Uxie "Multi" Donk decks because of the certainty and the lack of interaction. I have no problem with the random donk. The Aimpom donk, the Unown Q donk, Sableye donk, etc.. (or the dreaded FAN ROTOM donk).

I feel that some complaints about donks there is an underlying ARROGANCE of the player that can’t accept that a certain other player can ever beat them. I think the random donks have always been somewhat controllable by just running the standard stuff like Call, more basics, (Unown R anyone), etc. I think a random 1600 player should be able to beat a 1900 ELO player every once in a while, even if only by the donk. The top level players feel the need to put in heavy tech, which has always let them do better against top level players, but leaves them open to have a dead hand against a lower level player.

You think its fair for someone who puts a lot of work into his deck and tested a lot to loose to someone who didnt do either, just by pure chance? And how is it arrogant? I can accept if a player beats me, but if I get donked the player didnt beat me. The game beat me, my bad luck beat me, I basically got a random gameloss. How is it arrogant I dont want to be hit by a random gameloss? I got donked last weekend because I played Azelf (I guess his hp are to small, its my fault...) while playing 4 coll 4 tomb 3 call (had to cut one but the substitute card wasnt in my hand either) 3 bebe and 14 basics.

I really dont care too much about the loss itself because it was a cc and we get undaunted and I know I didnt loose the game and theres nothing I couldve done about it but what makes me angry is that I loose precious points just because I had bad luck. I loose points and there is nothing I can do about it...

I absolutly hate this "just add more consistency, its your own fault if you get donked" stuff. As if its that easy, I can stuff my deck with trainers all day, wont help me if I go first and against gengar im done for, what am I supposed to do going fist? Play 8 starters? Maybe 4 tomb 4 smeargle?!

At some point the effort just gets unreasonable, if you cant expect to play a full game unless you play 8 starts there is something horribly wrong...

And is "even a good player should loose to a bad one once in a while" anything but hate against people who put a lot of effort into this game? If someone wants to beat me he can get better, improve his game, play a deck that he espects will beat mine, copy a decklist and learn to use it, but I guess asking for some effort is really to much if we can just give him the win for free, stealing my points and giving him the illusion he has actually improved or done anything to deserve a win.

Because Ill never accept anyone who donked me as someone who beat me, I wont hold it against him because its not his fault that the game design is flawed but its not like Ill think "hes gotten better" or "wow he beat me", the game becomes non existant, nothing happened except that my chance to play a game got stolen and I lost points, those points that will decide who is worthy enough to play in a world championship. Yeah, awesome, donks ftw....

 

[Sevus]

You think its fair for someone who puts a lot of work into his deck and tested a lot to loose to someone who didnt do either, just by pure chance? And how is it arrogant? I can accept if a player beats me, but if I get donked the player didnt beat me. The game beat me, my bad luck beat me, I basically got a random gameloss. How is it arrogant I dont want to be hit by a random gameloss? I got donked last weekend because I played Azelf (I guess his hp are to small, its my fault...) while playing 4 coll 4 tomb 3 call (had to cut one but the substitute card wasnt in my hand either) 3 bebe and 14 basics.

I really dont care too much about the loss itself because it was a cc and we get undaunted and I know I didnt loose the game and theres nothing I couldve done about it but what makes me angry is that I loose precious points just because I had bad luck. I loose points and there is nothing I can do about it...

I absolutly hate this "just add more consistency, its your own fault if you get donked" stuff. As if its that easy, I can stuff my deck with trainers all day, wont help me if I go first and against gengar im done for, what am I supposed to do going fist? Play 8 starters? Maybe 4 tomb 4 smeargle?!

At some point the effort just gets unreasonable, if you cant expect to play a full game unless you play 8 starts there is something horribly wrong...

And is "even a good player should loose to a bad one once in a while" anything but hate against people who put a lot of effort into this game? If someone wants to beat me he can get better, improve his game, play a deck that he espects will beat mine, copy a decklist and learn to use it, but I guess asking for some effort is really to much if we can just give him the win for free, stealing my points and giving him the illusion he has actually improved or done anything to deserve a win.

Because Ill never accept anyone who donked me as someone who beat me, I wont hold it against him because its not his fault that the game design is flawed but its not like Ill think "hes gotten better" or "wow he beat me", the game becomes non existant, nothing happened except that my chance to play a game got stolen and I lost points, those points that will decide who is worthy enough to play in a world championship. Yeah, awesome, donks ftw....

Perhaps it's not "fair" that someone who has very limited knowledge of the game manages to OTK you, who put vast amounts of time and effort into your deck and the game as a whole. But as someone else explained (in this very same thread, I believe), it is necessary for the growth of the game that good, even great players lose to bad players occasionally.

The best way to learn how to play competitively is to play in competitions. There, you are forced to learn what does and does not work, because a tournament will tear you apart if you're not ready for it.

However, almost no one goes into a tournament hoping to lose. Expecting, maybe. Hoping? No. If there is absolutely no chance of defeating anyone, not even to have that one game in your wins column at the end of the day, then what's the motivation for participating in the tournament? A vague hope that "someday" you'll be good enough to win? For a lot of people, that's not enough.

That one victory, that one OTK you get because all the cards fell into place can be incredibly inspiring. It can brighten your day that something "just worked," and if you have the makings of a competitive player, you can start looking at why it worked. How you can get it to work more often. Once you get your deck consistently working, you can start looking at what prevents your deck from working. And from that one "undeserved" OTK, you've started developing on the path of a good competitive player. But you need a catalyst, an awakening, and "donks" are one such catalyst.

I find to state that "donking" is an undeserved victory is incredibly arrogant. You can be right to be frustrated at that one game you lost and there was nothing you can do about it. I will not dispute that, it's frustrating to be punished for something almost entirely out of your control. But if your opponent is playing a deck designed to win via OTK, then they've used the same competitive processes you did in crafting their deck and it worked against you. If it's an unskilled opponent defeating you by sheer dumb luck, than maybe it wasn't deserved, but it could be their catalyst to become a better player.

That being said, I'm very much with SLOW DECK. A deck that can consistently OTK regardless of the opponent's setup outside of specific cases is unbalanced and detracts from the game.

 

[Box of Fail]

Putting time and effort is great and all, but it shouldn't buy a win. Too many donk victims act as if they were cheated out of a win. This is preposterous; nobody's skill level and dedication to the game should cause them to 'deserve' a win.

The description of 'arrogance' is right on the money imo; someone who pours their soul into this game feels they deserve to win because they worked harder than their opponent who picked up Machamp the day before. I know I sound like a broken record, but I can't stress this point enough.

You deserve a win once you win it (without foul play). If you lose a game cleanly, you don't deserve that win, whether the game lasted 5 seconds and only involved one player's actually doing anything, or it went to time with both players exhibiting an extremely high skill level. It's really that simple.

 

[Yoshi-]

But if your opponent is playing a deck designed to win via OTK


Because my opponent definitly played unown q and expert belt and crobat just in case id start with azelf...
You can call me arrogant all day, it a worthless victory, i dont even see how this is up to discussion. Its a victory for points and the tournament record, but not a "wow I beat that player" victory.
If Id start to play a game and beat a anything-champion just like this I wouldnt get motivated, Id just understand that the game is pretty random. And thinking youre a good player now because you donked someone doesnt do you any good either when you dont get lucky and get rolled the next 3 tournaments because you still dont know.
ANd btw, Im talking about random donks here, if his deck is something like uxie donk then I guess he deserved the win because he made the right deckchoice, I still think its an incredibly stupid deck and I still wont think about someone who beat me with that any bettter or worse then before, just that he is someone who took a gamble with his deckchoice and it worked out.

But then I really only count games that are determined by playing instead of opening hands as real games. If I start tomb to his bronzong & 6 trainers I made a good metagame call and got a free win, doesnt make it a real game.
Unfortunatly this happens very rarely right now, from my 7 swiss worlds rounds I consider 2 real games.
3 People got tomb locked, then I had a dead hand once and in one game my turtwis dies t1 & t2 which I could do nothing about since my opponent had t1 jumpluff and uxie for 7 with lux x t2. Dont blame him but it wasnt really a good game in a sence that we both could execute our strategy and find out whod win it. This game wasnt decided on playing skills since we both just did the standart stuff really, the game was decided on opening hands -> lame.

 

[NoPoke]

If I'm three times better than someone else that does not mean I win ALL the time against them. It is supposed to mean that I win three times as many games as they do.

 

[Yoshi-]

Because in one game you pulled of a strategy your opponent didnt know / didnt see coming / putplayed your opponent...

I have no issues loosing to someone who is a 100 times weaker than I am as .long as I loose a game and I didnt loose on donks / absurd coinflips / topdecks. Last Weekend I lost round 1 and round 2 I played against Charizard which is my absolute worst autoloss. I barely pulled it off because she really didnt know what to do but If I had lost I wouldve been a bit sour that I wouldve had no reason to complain. She chose a deck that I accepted as a bad matchup, I got unlucky with the pairings, she won, no problem. I really dont care who I loose/win against, Ill consider it a game if it didnt end on absurd things that are out of the players hand. But if a game was decided by dice / opening hands Ill say so. But this goes both ways. If I play a world champion and I start tomb to his bronzong / 6 trainers, Ill take the win because thats our tournament structure but would I think it was a good game/I deserved or earned the win/I won a game?

Never... Because I didnt do anything.

 

[yoshi1001]

Putting time and effort is great and all, but it shouldn't buy a win. Too many donk victims act as if they were cheated out of a win. This is preposterous; nobody's skill level and dedication to the game should cause them to 'deserve' a win.

Maybe they didn't "deserve" a win, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think they deserved a game. Getting "cheated" out out of a game can feel just as bad, if not worse, than getting "cheated" out of a win.

I think most players accept that there is a certain level of randomness and unpredictability associated with the game. Every so often, a deck or player with a statistically lower chance of victory wins a game. It happens, but people are willing to accept a certain level of randomness. The problem for a lot of people is that the amount of randomness has increased substantially in their view. To them, the format has become a state of near-chaos. Some people can deal with that, but to a lot of people, that's demoralizing, even infuriating, and they can't just change their outlook to accept it (especially those who invest a lot of time into the game).

 

[SteveP]

If I'm three times better than someone else that does not mean I win ALL the time against them. It is supposed to mean that I win three times as many games as they do.

Good one NoPoke, although flawed. :thumb:

If you're more skilled than someone, then the only way they can beat you is:

- luck is involved
- you make a mistake

I generally have no problem losing a game of Pokemon to an inferior opponent by either of those means. :biggrin:

---------- Post added 01/19/2011 at 03:17 AM ----------

Donks don't make me feel cheated, but they generally leave me feeling unfulfilled. The more that happens, the more I shy away from the game. If others do the same, that's not a good thing.

I don't mind donks, but like all things, moderation is key.

 

[Sages_Training]

Donking is an anti-social way of playing. For a Yu-Gi-Oh refrence, think of the Donker almost like Kaiba. The person who sits there and concentrates on their own goals and even though he may care for other things, he only does because they are part of HIS life. He doesn't care about Mokuba because of Mokuba, but rather because he is part of Seto; and only for that. He doesn't want to see him hurt only because it hurts him; not because he suffers.

Alls fair, because I brought my single-shot pistol to your knife fight.

Because of Twins it is now okay to run extra basics.

Personally, I love to beat a donker, (or anyone who uses a cheap deck (which is anyone who has no real originally in it, but a beating a donker feels even better). Somewhere deep down you all do. This is because donking is inheriently evil and smiting evil feels awesome. When I see a donker trying to go, all I want is to suvive the first 2turns, then I consider it a game. I think everyone wants to, not just to play, but to vanguish that evil: part of you is even glad they are a donker.

A donker to me is someone who fights with pure aggression: but remember, no matter how many hits you get in in a second, a blocked attack does not register, and essentially you are a rock hoping to get thrown.

Anyways, donking, to me, does suck, but on a minor point, it does add a different element to the game, and personally I like to overcome all obsticles, thus to fufill that, donking must exist. All you can do is build a deck that can beat every deck. Stop being so...unoriginal (looking at you SP decks...God, was SP an awful idea...lets make OP basics and just keep making them stronger!). Have your favorite card to use in a deck and dedicate a part of your deck to that card and the rest to counters. It may seem inconsistant, in theory, but when you get down to worlds, the only reason things are so consistant is because everyone is countering each other, speceficly. No. Counter the general onslaught, the best you can, and you may have the best deck someday. Metagame? Screw that. Do what you want, then worry about that. If everyone followed this isntead of, "omg! that deck is so easy and awesome!" then those decks wouldn't be everywhere. Balance. But whatever. Some people have no creativety. Which is fine, but you have no right to complain. Well you do. Go ahead and vent--but don't think you'll be right.

Ultimately, the game of Pokemon is for everyone to have fun. If someone can only have fun building a donk deck, what right do you have to take that from them? Just make it harder to be donked by being creative and lots of hand-testing.

----That's what I'd be saying if donking was only a 1 in a million chance. But it's too damn easy. Being donked sucks. Even when you win, it's so bitter sweet I sometimes think I should of just conceaded. The amount of loathing that goes into it...just is not worth that very, very, very, small feeling. When vanquishing evil, no one really wins--just the fact that it exists is very, very sad.

This is how the Vilegar player feels. They hate SP because they like Chess. Despite what you think, SP takes very, very, very little skill. Yes, maybe it takes some to beat a fellow SP deck, but that's just because of how easy it is to play! Chess? Feh! More like Tic-Tac-Toe!

And so, because of all the lameness of donking and SP, we are left with boring decks if you want to make top cut. The reason you don't mind losing to an SP donk is because it's so accepted and so hyped. Honestly, the reason a lot ofp eople turned to donking is probably because of how OP SP decks are. Easy first turn wins. Easy mid game. If there is a late game, you're probably not in the top cut...

 

[Loner]

Donking is an anti-social way of playing. For a Yu-Gi-Oh refrence, think of the Donker almost like Kaiba. The person who sits there and concentrates on their own goals and even though he may care for other things, he only does because they are part of HIS life. He doesn't care about Mokuba because of Mokuba, but rather because he is part of Seto; and only for that. He doesn't want to see him hurt only because it hurts him; not because he suffers.

Alls fair, because I brought my single-shot pistol to your knife fight.

Because of Twins it is now okay to run extra basics.

Personally, I love to beat a donker, (or anyone who uses a cheap deck (which is anyone who has no real originally in it, but a beating a donker feels even better). Somewhere deep down you all do. This is because donking is inheriently evil and smiting evil feels awesome. When I see a donker trying to go, all I want is to suvive the first 2turns, then I consider it a game. I think everyone wants to, not just to play, but to vanguish that evil: part of you is even glad they are a donker.

A donker to me is someone who fights with pure aggression: but remember, no matter how many hits you get in in a second, a blocked attack does not register, and essentially you are a rock hoping to get thrown.

Anyways, donking, to me, does suck, but on a minor point, it does add a different element to the game, and personally I like to overcome all obsticles, thus to fufill that, donking must exist. All you can do is build a deck that can beat every deck. Stop being so...unoriginal (looking at you SP decks...God, was SP an awful idea...lets make OP basics and just keep making them stronger!). Have your favorite card to use in a deck and dedicate a part of your deck to that card and the rest to counters. It may seem inconsistant, in theory, but when you get down to worlds, the only reason things are so consistant is because everyone is countering each other, speceficly. No. Counter the general onslaught, the best you can, and you may have the best deck someday. Metagame? Screw that. Do what you want, then worry about that. If everyone followed this isntead of, "omg! that deck is so easy and awesome!" then those decks wouldn't be everywhere. Balance. But whatever. Some people have no creativety. Which is fine, but you have no right to complain. Well you do. Go ahead and vent--but don't think you'll be right.

Ultimately, the game of Pokemon is for everyone to have fun. If someone can only have fun building a donk deck, what right do you have to take that from them? Just make it harder to be donked by being creative and lots of hand-testing.

----That's what I'd be saying if donking was only a 1 in a million chance. But it's too damn easy. Being donked sucks. Even when you win, it's so bitter sweet I sometimes think I should of just conceaded. The amount of loathing that goes into it...just is not worth that very, very, very, small feeling. When vanquishing evil, no one really wins--just the fact that it exists is very, very sad.

This is how the Vilegar player feels. They hate SP because they like Chess. Despite what you think, SP takes very, very, very little skill. Yes, maybe it takes some to beat a fellow SP deck, but that's just because of how easy it is to play! Chess? Feh! More like Tic-Tac-Toe!

And so, because of all the lameness of donking and SP, we are left with boring decks if you want to make top cut. The reason you don't mind losing to an SP donk is because it's so accepted and so hyped.

To say that donking is "inherently evil,"
and that you want to smite evil.

When I read this, I was thinking to myself "god this person better be like 11 years old, because if he's any older it scares me," please see to a therapist tell him that you feel that a deck that wins on turn one in a Trading Card Game is an "inherant evil" then tell him that you want to "smite evil," and that "smiting evil feels awesome." Because this train of thought is the basis for an eventual Messiah Complex, or worse a God Complex(narcissistic personality disorder) , honestly some posts people make are really really dumb, some are really selfish or rude, but I have never seen anything this psychotic on a TCG forum.

Aside from that, your point about SP being like Tic-Tac-Toe, I mean it shows that you have pretty much no experience playing SP at a high level. I have played both Vilegar and SP this format, I'm perplexed on how you can say this. I mean it's one thing to think that Vilegar takes more skill, its another to say vilegar is chess and sp is tic-tac-toe.

Honestly, I don't want to be rude and insulting but I can't think of any other way to describe this post except for either, extremely childish or insane. Either way it legitimately freaked me out.

 

[Sages_Training]

To say that donking is "inherently evil,"
and that you want to smite evil.

When I read this, I was thinking to myself "god this person better be like 11 years old, because if he's any older it scares me," please see to a therapist tell him that you feel that a deck that wins on turn one in a Trading Card Game is an "inherant evil" then tell him that you want to "smite evil," and that "smiting evil feels awesome." Because this train of thought is the basis for an eventual Messiah Complex, or worse a God Complex(narcissistic personality disorder) , honestly some posts people make are really really dumb, some are really selfish or rude, but I have never seen anything this psychotic on a TCG forum.

Aside from that, your point about SP being like Tic-Tac-Toe, I mean it shows that you have pretty much no experience playing SP at a high level. I have played both Vilegar and SP this format, I'm perplexed on how you can say this. I mean it's one thing to think that Vilegar takes more skill, its another to say vilegar is chess and sp is tic-tac-toe.

Honestly, I don't want to be rude and insulting but I can't think of any other way to describe this post except for either, extremely childish or insane. Either way it legitimately freaked me out.

You're the one who seems to be taking things too seriously, eh? My point about Uxie/Shuppet-donk is that it takes a very, very, lonely soul to build that deck and do that to someone. If it's just a game, don't you think someone is going a little too far NOT to actually play?

About Vilegar? I never said it was like Chess. The player just wished Pokemon in general was.

My post was like that on purpose, as a form of...metaphore? Some English thing like that, where exactly what you thought about me is what I feel about the Donker.

You're silly. Did you not see that I said, in the end, "When vanquishing evil, no one really wins--just the fact that it exists is very, very sad."

I've been catching up on the posts, and someone named Slow Deck, who ran Uxie-donk seems to completely agree with me: such a play style is inheriently evil. You are playing a game of Solitare when you should be playing Chess (or at least Tic-Tac-Toe).

You do not insult me, for you obviously do not think, and thus you don't exist.

---------- Post added 01/18/2011 at 11:01 PM ----------

That was PCL's mistake; making all of the "owned" SP Pokemon interchangeable. You have five different types of SP Pokemon: GL, FB, 4, C and G. However, since they are all SP Pokemon, there's not much point in giving them a secondary designation. All of Team Galactic's Inventions work on Pokemon that aren't designated as G Pokemon. Imagine if Poke-Turn only worked on G Pokemon, or if Cynthia's Feelings only allowed you to draw extra cards if a C Pokemon was knocked out. Most SP decks play heavily with Galactic Invention trainers, so imagine if Luxray, Infernape, Blaziken and Garchomp weren't part of the equation. Sure, you would still have Dialga G, Absol G, maybe Skuntank G and others, but not anywhere near the ferocity that we have already.

SP does kind of hinder the variety of decks that could see play, but Pokemon has been through worse, and SP will get rotated out for new things.

EXACTLY! If only the SPs were specefic to their sub-catagory and maybe a few DECENT global trainer/support/stadium for them, it wouldn't be so lame.

 

[Loner]

You're the one who seems to be taking things too seriously, eh? My point about Uxie/Shuppet-donk is that it takes a very, very, lonely soul to build that deck and do that to someone. If it's just a game, don't you think someone is going a little too far NOT to actually play?

About Vilegar? I never said it was like Chess. The player just wished Pokemon in general was.

My post was like that on purpose, as a form of...metaphore? Some English thing like that, where exactly what you thought about me is what I feel about the Donker.

You're silly. Did you not see that I said, in the end, "When vanquishing evil, no one really wins--just the fact that it exists is very, very sad."

I've been catching up on the posts, and someone named Slow Deck, who ran Uxie-donk seems to completely agree with me: such a play style is inheriently evil. You are playing a game of Solitare when you should be playing Chess (or at least Tic-Tac-Toe).

You do not insult me, for you obviously do not think, and thus you don't exist.

This describes you perfectly.
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html


You want people to play the game only by your rules of fairness. Your personal rules don't matter only the rules of the game. Just because you think we should be playing like chess, doesn't mean, we actually should be playing like chess.
You say it takes a lonely soul to play to play a donk deck. Why because you find it unfair? Because it doesn't consider an opponents feelings, while trying to win? Welcome to competitive hobbies.

"To do something like that to an opponent," getting donked believe it or not is not that terrible, you'd say the donk player was raping you by the tone you are using.

Also you said how i feel about you is how you feel about donkers. Well i thought you were insane, so you feel donkers are insane?

 

[Sages_Training]

This describes you perfectly.
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html


You want people to play the game only by your rules of fairness. Your personal rules don't matter only the rules of the game. Just because you think we should be playing like chess, doesn't mean, we actually should be playing like chess.
You say it takes a lonely soul to play to play a donk deck. Why because you find it unfair? Because it doesn't consider an opponents feelings, while trying to win? Welcome to competitive hobbies.

"To do something like that to an opponent," getting donked believe it or not is not that terrible, you'd say the donk player was raping you by the tone you are using.

Also you said how i feel about you is how you feel about donkers. Well i thought you were insane, so you feel donkers are insane?

Couldn't I say the same about you? But you mis the point--it's unsportmenship-like conduct. It's almost the equivilent of not letting the opposing team in football use their gear. You're ONLY in it for yourself. Let's not have fun, yes? I challenge you to a wrestling match and you snipe me from 50 yards away. This is a GAME, not war!

And I won't go to that link. I think you're insane.

You obviously don't get the meaning of metaphore, exageration, ect.

People in foriegn countries have killed "Soccer" players for losing, just to put it into perspective. I'm not saying it's right (on contrary, it's down-right retarded/unsivilized, but that's the point--so is this way of playing). You're just mad because you don't know how to have fun anymore or build a deck of your own. Crazy.

---------- Post added 01/18/2011 at 11:27 PM ----------

This describes you perfectly.
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

You say it takes a lonely soul to play to play a donk deck. Why because you find it unfair? Because it doesn't consider an opponents feelings, while trying to win? Welcome to competitive hobbies. ?

You sound like a hypocrite, you know that? The only thing that scares me more than a crazy person, as you never know what they'll do next--at least with a crazy person you might like it--and they are pure. Hypocrites, on the other hand have no sense of themselves or what they are talking about.

You realize Pokemon is meant to premote social behavior and have fun...for ages SIX AND UP. You're insane. Winning (purposely) on the first turn is not competetive---it's insane. You just punched meon me because I challenged you to rock, papper scizzors. You just sucked all of the fun out of the game. I understand it's not your fault that you lack a soul and that the TCG printed the card and you feel winning is all that matters---but it hurts the people around you. Go see a concouslor, SP player.

 

[Loner]

And I won't go to that link. I think you're insane.

My post doesn't make much sense unless you read the article. I promise it's a very legitimate article about competitive hobbies, and the people that play them.

You just punched meon me because I challenged you to rock, papper scizzors. You just sucked all of the fun out of the game. I understand it's not your fault that you lack a soul and that the TCG printed the card and you feel winning is all that matters---but it hurts the people around you.

If you challenge me to RPS ill play RPS. But you challenge me to pokemon I'll play pokemon by the rules of the game not your own set of rules, but you don't understand what I mean by your set of rules because you didn't read the article which explains all of that.

You sound like a hypocrite, you know that? The only thing that scares me more than a crazy person, as you never know what they'll do next--at least with a crazy person you might like it--and they are pure. Hypocrites, on the other hand have no sense of themselves or what they are talking about.

Explain my hipocracy please, and that whole paragraph.

 

[Sages_Training]

My post doesn't make much sense unless you read the article. I promise it's a very legitimate article about competitive hobbies, and the people that play them.



If you challenge me to RPS ill play RPS. But you challenge me to pokemon I'll play pokemon by the rules of the game not your own set of rules, but you don't understand what I mean by your set of rules because you didn't read the article which explains all of that.



Explain my hipocracy please, and that whole paragraph.

No, because I only read your last sentence. I have decided it is useless to talk to someone like you. Good-bye.

 

[Amakake Ryu No Hirameki]

No, because I only read your last sentence. I have decided it is useless to talk to someone like you. Good-bye.

U MAD

In other news, I hate getting donked. Especially in competitions. It's a reality that I have to deal with, but it is one I would rather not experience first hand.

 

[Sages_Training]

Hmm... I obviously understood the first part, so I feel that you didn't need to point it out, but no matter. Also, a LOT of donk decks are NOT solitary plays with the right list... You have to think between each move. I don't think that you understood the point of not playing random things down. You actually have to THINK. Plus, I didn't run cyclone energy . Nobody I know runs these particular techs (not going to mention them ^.^). Sure, the techs aren't usually secret, sometimes are, but are not usually in the deck itself. They are kind of taken from other ones. And, actually, have a lot of your main deck actually work against counters! I didn't just mean add a few counters... Let almost your whole deck be one big counter. Sure, it sounds ridiculous, but not all counters are JUST counters. They work otherwise, too. So, I am sorry, but you did not understand the post. I do thank you for trying though, since it was a little odd from your standpoint.

Thanks,
Monkey.

The level of thinking involved only seems like it takes a lot because you are young.

The point here is this: there is NO SURE THING YOU CAN DO TO COUNTER IT. You can't play! Look at it like this: if an opponents deck is meant to win on turn 3 under ideal circumstances, I have 2-3 turns to realize what is going on and counter it. If it's meant to win in one turn, I can't play. Get it?

---------- Post added 01/19/2011 at 12:45 AM ----------

Then what makes that a bad thing? Should noobs be forever trapped below the experienced players? Should having superior knowledge of how to play the game than your opponent entitle you to beat them?

Should I become president of the unided states just because my daddy paid for my campaign?


People fror Donk decks completely miss-the point...so self-loathing...

---------- Post added 01/19/2011 at 12:51 AM ----------

The day uxie crobat and gengar are gone is the day ill start calling this game pokemon again...

Another city today, round one I nearly had it, he had a god draw and I still outplayed him but he had only one price left. I have belted magnezone active and he has a belted gyara and his hand is dead, he draws, collector, uxie, draws 3 cards, tells me he is sorry and shows me the 3 cards, 3 poketurns... yeah...

and then round 3, I start azelf with no psychic to his unown q / belt / crobat...

the first time this year I played a heavily tested non standart deck, I was confident in all 3 big matchups, i knew all the tricks the deck had and prepared a lot, and this is what I get. Makes you wonder why you should even bother, I used a mediocre gyarados list and never tested gyarados at all and made a ton of misplays and still won a cc.

Okay, it's PRIZE, man, PRIZE. I ignored it the first 10 times, but I can't anymore! xD

 

[NoPoke]

Good one NoPoke, although flawed. :thumb:

If you're more skilled than someone, then the only way they can beat you is:

- luck is involved
- you make a mistake

I generally have no problem losing a game of Pokemon to an inferior opponent by either of those means. :biggrin:

---------- Post added 01/19/2011 at 03:17 AM ----------

Donks don't make me feel cheated, but they generally leave me feeling unfulfilled. The more that happens, the more I shy away from the game. If others do the same, that's not a good thing.

I don't mind donks, but like all things, moderation is key.

I agree with you on donks. Moderation is the key.

However I disagree with your statement on the only way that a weaker player can beat a stronger play is luck or a mistake by the stronger player. Skill and performance on the day are not fixed and well defined. I can think of numerous occasions in all areas of life where I've performed well on the day or poorly. There have defiiately been occasions where I've performed well above my normal levels and it is not down to luck or mistakes by the opposition. skill isn't fixed it has a variation associated with it.

To always attribute loses to a nominally weaker player as luck or a mistake is to only see one side of what determines the result of any competitive activity.

Now I'm not suggesing that you are trying to belittle weaker players but there are a lot of posts on the gym where players are making posts that are saying that I'm better than you so I should always win. Luck, mistakes or natural variation. It makes no difference: weaker players can beat stronger players some of the time.

strong players perform at a high level most of the time, not all of the time.
Weak players perform at a low level most of the time, not all of the time.
Given natural variation there is plenty of opportunity for stronger players to lose to weaker players.

 

[Loner]

No, because I only read your last sentence. I have decided it is useless to talk to someone like you. Good-bye.

Just wondering how did you only read the last sentence, moreover why do you read from top to bottom? Seems impractical.

I mean I would think that at least you would consider reading points other than your own.

Also you don't know what a metaphor is.

 

[Box of Fail]

^That's because metaphore isn't a word

EDIT: Well you corrected it I guess, but don't tell other people how dumb they are for not knowing a word that you can't spell