rileysill32
New Member
Who cares? It's over and done with. It's a card game. Go do something more productive with your time.
DQed from regionals and BANNED two weeks later (I was set-up)
- Thread starter GinoLombardi21
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jon_meadowbrook
New Member
That was a well written report. I also appreciate seeing what official letterhead looks like.
I don't know anything about cheating, but knowing the bottom card of your deck doesn't seem that valuable to me...
I don't know anything about cheating, but knowing the bottom card of your deck doesn't seem that valuable to me...
This all just seems ridiculous. I've never personally met gino, but heck I like him. He screws around with people, he plays the fake bully and it's funny. People like for reasons to be rude to him. And honestly as one of the most respected members of this community I would expect pokepop to actually offer his side of this.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Bolt
New Member
Wait, am I missing something from this one? Did you draw an extra card and then wait to see if the judges would do something about it? And how do you know for sure that your opponent saw it?
losjackal
Technical Administrator
You are missing that Gino was depicting a fictitious scenario. He said this right before what you quoted:
PokemonTrader
Active Member
Please keep in mind that I am merely stating my insight on this drama.
I don't know if I'm the only one noticing this, but all your opponents had no idea whether or not you were cheating. "I don't recall if you did or didn't..." "You didn't do anything like that... except maybe a couple of times" A good cheat can fly under the radar. I personally don't see the need in getting all 5 opponents to state "he didn't cheat". Since we only see a snippet of your conversations who knows what other questions/statements could have been said. Irregardless, that's the thing about the internet, it is so ambiguous and you don't need to show everything...
From the facts you stated, it is up in arms whether or not you are the victim. Your proof doesn't argue that you are innocent.
I don't know if I'm the only one noticing this, but all your opponents had no idea whether or not you were cheating. "I don't recall if you did or didn't..." "You didn't do anything like that... except maybe a couple of times" A good cheat can fly under the radar. I personally don't see the need in getting all 5 opponents to state "he didn't cheat". Since we only see a snippet of your conversations who knows what other questions/statements could have been said. Irregardless, that's the thing about the internet, it is so ambiguous and you don't need to show everything...
From the facts you stated, it is up in arms whether or not you are the victim. Your proof doesn't argue that you are innocent.
Bolt
New Member
Whoops! My bad. Looks like I WAS missing something.
Glumanda
Rulings Compendium Translator
So, up to round 5 we have two infractions of Drawing extra prize cards and one infraction of drawing extra cards. This is not what I would consider being clean play especially when we are talking about a player with a vast experience in tournaments.
On a general note (that means this it not directed at the exact case here): In general, it is not abad idea to let something go to observe if infractions will pile up. There are players who will try to cheat until they are penalized for the first time, and then stop. But by the time the first penalty will be assessed, there might already be a lot of damage. Letting infractions go is the only way to identify the behaviour. Another example: Observing a pattern at deck check? You suspect cheating but you are not sure? Give the player the deck back without any notion and try to observe if he is using the pattern. If he could use the pattern, but does not do, remove the pattern from the deck and in this case, you could even go with a lesser penalty. Otherwise, you can gain clear evidence to throw the hammer. Things like these are done in MTG day in, day out...
On a general note (that means this it not directed at the exact case here): In general, it is not abad idea to let something go to observe if infractions will pile up. There are players who will try to cheat until they are penalized for the first time, and then stop. But by the time the first penalty will be assessed, there might already be a lot of damage. Letting infractions go is the only way to identify the behaviour. Another example: Observing a pattern at deck check? You suspect cheating but you are not sure? Give the player the deck back without any notion and try to observe if he is using the pattern. If he could use the pattern, but does not do, remove the pattern from the deck and in this case, you could even go with a lesser penalty. Otherwise, you can gain clear evidence to throw the hammer. Things like these are done in MTG day in, day out...
Otaku
Active Member
You should consider re-reading Gino's statement then; I didn't get that message out of it. The argument is "If I did this, why didn't the person opposite of me with the most to gain from catching me in the act not see it?" This is a valid question: the judges' different, physical perspective can enable to them spot some cheating easier but also obscure some actions to the point of false identification. There is the additional question of "If I was doing this and it was wrong... why wait five rounds to do anything about it?" which is a question that merits attention.
First, you are correct that we only have fragments. The longer this goes on, however, the more time those quoted can correct false claims. If we take them as is, instead of claiming to be all seeing, they admitted they didn't catch him doing it or if they did, it wasn't important enough that they retained it. Are all of his opponents newbies or players known for their lack of skill? Yes, the best cheater is the one that never gets caught... which accordingly means everyone is guilty: either you're an unskilled cheater and have been caught, or you're just so good you haven't been caught.
Gino's own comments acknowledge what he claims is a nervous habit... a nervous habit I've seen in many players I don't consider cheats, including one of the few higher level players I know. The habits of messing with your hand or deck at all in unneeded ways are habits that need to be broken, but they don't "prove" guilt. They aren't meant to prove he didn't do it, but to provide reasonable doubt. People not overstating their case does not prove guilt or innocence and yes, this really is a "cheat" that some people unknowingly perform.
I'll finish by pointing out that no one should support abusing the rules to punish someone for an unrelated offense. Thankfully, not too many are posting that, but since at least one did, I believed it prudent to comment upon. I worry because I see it more and more in the world of fiction, and sometimes such shifts in the real world are prefaced by such works. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Likewise allowing others to come to harm to gain needed evidence to prove an offense is something to be done with the victim's compliance, or because at that moment there really is nothing to punish. Just like the police in legal matters, the staff cannot read people's minds. Doesn't sound like the players were warned about this, and even if they did, then yes this might be entrapment (though I am unfamiliar with the actual law on this manner). The big thing is that one is supposed to allow the other party to not only commit the infraction, but to knowingly do so of his or her own volition.
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homeofmew
Active Member
Let's say Gino Was cheating, according to his claim, many judges saw it, and it only got penalized when deshaw saw it.
Anwyay IF he he was cheating he would have been DQed r1. My point is why the big drama lama doing it r5, then banning him 2 weeks later?
In the case he WAS guilty he should have been DQed r1 and the ban happen the next day or whatever.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
If you're playing an opponent who doesn't cut your deck after you shuffle and you're inclined to cheat, it's incredibly important information. If you know what the bottom card is, and it's something you want, it's very, very easy to shuffle seemingly properly but have that card wind up on the top of your deck. Heck, if one had the foresight, they could easily put (for example) a Blastoise on the bottom of their deck while Skylaing for a Rare Candy, and then "shuffle" the Blastoise onto the top of the deck. Or while getting Ned, shuffle until you wind up with a favorable card on the bottom of the deck, then shuffle it up to the top, and then draw your cards.
Not saying that that's what went on in this case (one reason among the many being I have no idea of the cutting habits of Geno's opponents), but there are absolutely situations (and not just fringe ones such as you're playing a fossil deck) where knowing what the bottom card is gives you the potential for an enormous advantage.
Tina.. Deshaw wasn't involved as noted by Pokepop earlier. There is way too much speculation and misinformation. Gino didn't help by inserting paragraphs of hypotheticals that also did not occur but are being read by the casual observer as if they did. The irony is that some are upset that Gino wasn't DQ'd the exact second a judge suspected something. Then at the other end of the spectrum there are others that think this was a setup and rush to judgement. Possibly the truth lies in the middle. A judge observes something calls it to the attention of another judge to consult and get their opinion. Then the head judge is involved to apply their experience and observation. It involves a process not a single act by a single person. I am also not following the "shoulda got a warning" camp. While a player or even a judge may feel that sentiment, the penalty guidelines do not provide that option. Per the guidelines, once the head judge has determined intentional action, the starting penalty is DQ.
I am not going to speculate on the ban, or the timing of the ban as I do not live in the mind of TPCi. The ban letter that Gino posted did not specifically mention the DQ in Philly (or any other specific action). Therefore, you are only assuming that the ban decision was a result of Philly when in fact there is no evidence of that. I am only commenting to caution that it is prudent to stick with facts and not assumptions. I wish Gino the very best.
It is the fact that they didn't ban him on first sight with the "bottom looking" thing that makes this whole thing seem so fishy. I don't think many people have a problem with him being banned if he really was cheating, but the actions and accusations by the judges don't really add up here. As someone who was there, I am still confused. If there is any foul play, I'm sure TPCi is intelligent enough to handle it, as they have been in the past (despite popular opinion).
jeffrey123
New Member
I'm about to step on many toes right now, and I really could care less.
What do you honestly expect from what's essentially a "team" of middle aged adults? It's not like things like this haven't happened before. The entire company is a joke. Some of the judges and higher staff are extremely credible, sensible and intelligent (Heidi Craig, Pokepop, etc), but for the most part, and from what I see online, the staff in general is a gigantic joke. While I am not commenting particularly on the Gino Lombardi scandal, I don't know why OP/TPCI fails to show that they can be professional. It doesn't just happen with bans, but in general. They have no idea what they're doing. No values or regards for the playerbase. I sincerely hope that this game gets almost an entire staff overhaul, especially people like SD_Pokemom who are an absolute joke online . It aggravates me to no end that this game has gone downhill, and for the most part, it's on the judges. These people really don't care about the game as a whole, as long as their league or numbers are hit properly and they make their money. Jason K winning worlds because the judges were too lazy to observe him attaching AN EXTRA ENERGY CARD during a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH? Is this a joke? The world champion did not win in correct fashion. Constant errors like this are so incredibly frustrating to me, especially now that money is on the line moreso than ever.
Watches are allowed, but you can't look at them? I've had a judge tell me this.
One judge will do/say this, another does that. There are clearly no standards as to what is correct and what isn't. I've lost countless games via incorrect judge penalties. You can win or lose a tournament based off of one ruling. It's not even one of those particular instances that bothers me, though, despite losing out of multiple top cut scenarios due to this. It's the constant inconsistencies thanks to bad judging, biased judges and the like.
Extremely disappointed with this company.
What do you honestly expect from what's essentially a "team" of middle aged adults? It's not like things like this haven't happened before. The entire company is a joke. Some of the judges and higher staff are extremely credible, sensible and intelligent (Heidi Craig, Pokepop, etc), but for the most part, and from what I see online, the staff in general is a gigantic joke. While I am not commenting particularly on the Gino Lombardi scandal, I don't know why OP/TPCI fails to show that they can be professional. It doesn't just happen with bans, but in general. They have no idea what they're doing. No values or regards for the playerbase. I sincerely hope that this game gets almost an entire staff overhaul, especially people like SD_Pokemom who are an absolute joke online . It aggravates me to no end that this game has gone downhill, and for the most part, it's on the judges. These people really don't care about the game as a whole, as long as their league or numbers are hit properly and they make their money. Jason K winning worlds because the judges were too lazy to observe him attaching AN EXTRA ENERGY CARD during a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH? Is this a joke? The world champion did not win in correct fashion. Constant errors like this are so incredibly frustrating to me, especially now that money is on the line moreso than ever.
Watches are allowed, but you can't look at them? I've had a judge tell me this.
One judge will do/say this, another does that. There are clearly no standards as to what is correct and what isn't. I've lost countless games via incorrect judge penalties. You can win or lose a tournament based off of one ruling. It's not even one of those particular instances that bothers me, though, despite losing out of multiple top cut scenarios due to this. It's the constant inconsistencies thanks to bad judging, biased judges and the like.
Extremely disappointed with this company.
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Mystery Thing
Administrator
Wait, taking a game loss during the final was all part of his master plan to win Worlds? Ugh, it's so obvious now! How could nobody have seen that before you said that?!
Rulemaster
New Member
Did Gino every send Mees his laptop back and apologize?
Or, you know, possibly, he was attempting to attach an extra energy during his turn? Gasp, no way! Why would anyone attach 2 energy in a turn when if they get caught at first, they'd probably just be told to put it back in their hand and if they dont get caught they win the game?!
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