erratas inside card sleeves

[ShadowCard]

Back with the days of yugioh, we used to slip tiny slips of paper between the card sleeve and the card (over the text) for english translations since we would all play a fair amount of japanese cards.

Could that be allowable in pokémon? Since a lot of cards are receiving erratas, like Steven's Advice, I thought of bringing back the idea to aid younger players who may not be aware of the rulings or players who may not remember the erratas. The rulings would come directly off of Pokemon-tcg.com's errata page or Team Compendium.

I had actually tried this at the ECSC to assist a player who was not up to date on the erratas. a judge said not to because the paper may change the thickness of the card sleeve. The paper is normal xerox paper.

Any opinions?

 

[mewsmom]

I would say NO. Because wording can changed or misleading and you've got no proof of what your translation is. Any foreign card needs to have a translation that is of understanding to each player. You play with a Japanese Blaziken, well then you'll need to provide the English version of that same Blaziken. Do not rely on other's to have these cards handy for you, it's your responibility to be sure you can provide the translation that is understandable to each player. The card with the slip of paper can be considered marked because it has something different about it than all the other cards and the thickness and weight would vary from another card that does not have the additional paper.

 

[ShadowCard]

wording can changed or misleading

That is intentional cheating and therefore out of the question.

Do not rely on other's to have these cards handy for you, it's your responibility to be sure you can provide the translation that is understandable to each player.

Errata's are not edited into cards. Feebas' Ascension attack was never corrected in print. No matter what English Feebas I present to you, it will be wrong. By your rule, we'd play the Feebas' Ascension without a coin flip. For Steven's Advice, we'd play with the unerrataed text. I do not see how the translation is not understandable. It's like your saying that a book of translated cards is not understandable. Are you saying that Team Compendium and Pokémon-tcg.com (which would be my sources) have worded their erratas in a questionable mannor?

The card with the slip of paper can be considered marked because it has something different about it than all the other cards

Have you ever seen players graffiti their cards? I know of players who draw on the face side of their protectors. Like in this case, neither is considered marked because the neither slip of paper nor the graffiti is on the back side of the protector.

and the thickness and weight would vary from another card that does not have the additional paper.

Well, i guess .1 gram does make all the difference. Seriously, you think a slip of paper changes the total weight of the card and protector? That's talking about numbers which would be dropped and considered insignificant (an 8.5X11 sheet of paper weighs about .2g, right?)

 

[SD PokeMom]

IMHO, the card is still considered 'marked' because it's _thickness_ is different from the rest of the deck...

'mom

 

[menoknow]

I'd say have translations printed off or something for reference, preferably from a major site. That way you have proof of it and you dont make any cards any thicker or anything.

 

[Ice'Cold]

In my opinion it can only be considered marked if you sicnificantly alter the weight of the card. Slipping a regular peice of paper into a soft ultra pro doesnt change anything, because it still cant be seen. If I could find one person who out of a stack of 5 cards could every time pick the one card with a peice of paper stuck inside, I would simply be amazed. Yes, with a nice balance you could detect that .01 g change by adding a peice of paper, but for a person to be able to feel a change is just impossible.

 

[mewsmom]

In my opinion it can only be considered marked if you sicnificantly alter the weight of the card. Slipping a regular peice of paper into a soft ultra pro doesnt change anything, because it still cant be seen. If I could find one person who out of a stack of 5 cards could every time pick the one card with a peice of paper stuck inside, I would simply be amazed. Yes, with a nice balance you could detect that .01 g change by adding a peice of paper, but for a person to be able to feel a change is just impossible.

Maybe by weight you couldn't tell but when shuffling someone could. Parts of cards are always visiable when in motion of shuffling. Then we have to get into, ok did you use exactly normal 8x11 paper or different notebook paper, designer paper and so forth, how big of sqaure they used and so on.

As to the Feebas point brought up, that's what the Compendium is for that TO's provide. I've seen many long term players keep a copy of the compendium, just incase the need is ever arose. Basically you are altering the card from it's original format and adding to it. If the paper was allowed why not just allow a copied scanned version of the original card or even yet Proxies. It's not only the issue of making someone use an original for sales but because there's room for human error, fraud and cheating.

 

[PokePop]

ShadowCard: I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish on this thread.
Let's say that you manage to get MewsMom to say, "OK, you're right. It's fine to do".
So what?
When you go to a tourney and do it, you're still going to get called on for having a marked deck and possible kicked from the tourney.

 

[Adv1sor]

The rules now state that you have to have, outside your deck, an English or local language version of any Japanese cards you want to use.

 

[meganium45]

OK, and simply, you are NOT going to be allowed these by ANY TO at any sanctioned tourney, if the TO is worth his salt.

Make it easy on all of us.

JUST DON'T DO IT.

M45

 

[M_Liesik]

Not allowed. The only thing allowed inside a card sleeve is the card itself.

 

[NoPoke]

Not Allowed? I'm surprised that the practice would need to be explicitly banned? why not leave it up to the Judges to decide if cards are marked by the inclusion of an errata strip?

It seems somewhat draconian to ban what could be a usefull solution to the tricky problem of errata.

I really haven't got the hang of this new "Spirit of The Game" it seems.

 

[dld4a]

Not Allowed? I'm surprised that the practice would need to be explicitly banned? why not leave it up to the Judges to decide if cards are marked by the inclusion of an errata strip?

It seems somewhat draconian to ban what could be a usefull solution to the tricky problem of errata.

I really haven't got the hang of this new "Spirit of The Game" it seems.

The reason it's probably not allowed is it would then open a window for other things (what I don't know, but still...). Basically any alterations are not allowed.

 

[Ash_Van_Je]

Well according the rules, you should have a English translation of the foreign card (weather it is printed on paper or a real card) in the game for refrence. If you put it in the sleeve it isn't allowed.

 

[PokePop]

Well according the rules, you should have a English translation of the foreign card (weather it is printed on paper or a real card) in the game for refrence.

Not exactly.
It has to be a real card, not some print of a card, and it can be the local language if that is not english.

 

[ShadowCard]

Then we have to get into, ok did you use exactly normal 8x11 paper or different notebook paper, designer paper and so forth, how big of sqaure they used and so on.

How fat does a paper have to be before the printer gets jammed?
seriously, a normal piece of zerox paper. It is printed from the Compendium, remember?

As to the Feebas point brought up, that's what the Compendium is for that TO's provide

I have never seen a TO provide the compendium. If they don't know the ruling on the card, they decide a ruling themselves.

Not all players visit the these sites. Not everyone is as privileged with 24-hour a day internet access whenever he or she needs to look up a Pokémon card ruling. A way of remembering is needed.

I've seen many long term players keep a copy of the compendium, just incase the need is ever arose. Basically you are altering the card from it's original format and adding to it. It's not only the issue of making someone use an original for sales but because there's room for human error, fraud and cheating.

Might I ask what these players did when the Compendium was updated? I actually tried to print the Compendium once. After seeing the amount of paper I'd need, I decided against it. Altering the printed Compendium by hand to accomedate the updates would open the door to cheating. If they reprinted the entire Compendium after each update, that's a lot of paper.

If the paper was allowed why not just allow a copied scanned version of the original card or even yet Proxies.

spirit of the game.

Parts of cards are always visiable when in motion of shuffling.

So now shuffling cards in some ways is illegal *sighs* "Your bottom card is a grass energy, I saw it, reshuffle your deck."

why not leave it up to the Judges to decide if cards are marked by the inclusion of an errata strip?

It seems somewhat draconian to ban what could be a usefull solution to the tricky problem of errata.

It seems almost everyone who replied is focusing on the part of this that doesn't matter - foreign language translations. perhaps I should change the title...

Only NoPoke seems to grasp the higher idea - the erratas. I don't play Pokémon Reversal but a lot of people do (I never learned because it normally fails when used against me). I don't know exactly what the errata is but I know there is one and I always trust my opponenet to know it. Printing out what the errata is, in any form, seems to be susceptable to being altered and considered cheating. Where is the trust in this game?

Pokepop, as Ice'Cold has stated, there is no clear reason as to why the idea makes the card a marked card. What is on the card face does not make it marked (unless some people I attend tournements with should have been called for this), it is the card back. The paper does not do anything to the card back. I would like to try this "can you pick the card sleeve with the paper inside" game (also known as "are you a psychic?"). The making erratas knowable is the reason.

Not allowed. The only thing allowed inside a card sleeve is the card itself.

my idea to encourage new players disallowed. I guess they'll be using Steven's Advice when they have a total of 7 cards when I'm not there to remind them *sighs*. Errataed cards should be reprinted with corrections.

mewsmon, I'm sorry if it sounds like I don't like you (it sounded like that in Pokepop's post). It isn't that way.

 

[homeofmew]

I think you can put it to the side
like in the new pre release rules you can use a proxy if you got the real card and
you want to use it for your collection.
I guess you can use a japanese Potion or switch without the real card cause everyone
knows what they do anyway?

 

[PokePop]

Shadowcard: I wasn't trying to make it sound like you didn't like Mewsmom.
Just that is was/is not productive arguing whether it was legal with her, or others on the thread.
Mike L has spoken out for PUI and said that it's not legal, so it's not legal.
One could still argue whether it should be made legal, though.

 

[lookinforwailordex]

Why dont you have atyped paper then print like 50 copys stating all the new rulings and then give it to the little people. So when they are about to play the card or when someone else plays the cards they can look at the paper and see ok are they doin everything they need to do to play this card. I think that would be a great way to show the little people how to play the right ruleing.

 

[joehardyreturns]

Not exactly.
It has to be a real card, not some print of a card, and it can be the local language if that is not english.

would the requirements of a english card be dismissed if the players know the text and abilities of the card?