EX Discussion # 3: Wailord Ex

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by League Leader Terry, Oct 15, 2003.

  1. League Leader Terry

    League Leader Terry New Member

    OK, here's some stats:

    200 HP
    C-Super Deep Dive: If you don't have a bench, it does nothing. Remove 3 damage counters and switch Wailord to the bench
    WWWC-Dwindling Wave 100-: 100 damage minus 10 for each damage counter on Wailord
    G&L Weakness, no Resistance, Retreat Cost too high to actually matter

    First of all, this guy's got the highest HP EVER. Secondly, (unless your opponent brings up a Pikachu and drops Raichu Ex on him) Wailord won't go down until you're good and ready for him to do so, which makes his Ex trait a lot less important. Unfortunately, his attack gets weaker the more he's hurt and is completely shut down when he's halfway gone.

    So, what do you guys think? Like I said, the Ex trait won't matter much unless your opponent is packing Raichu Ex, but there's still plenty of Pokemon that can easily shut his attack down.
     
  2. dkates

    dkates New Member

    I think it's too much work to be worth it. For fun, I made a theoretical decklist around this guy on Pokeschool. Super Deep Dive just doesn't cut it for healing, IMO, so you have to run a LOT of healing. However, IF you can get it up and running fast enough (I used a 3-3-3 Swampert line to help get its Energy cost paid), and IF you have enough healing (I used 4 each of Oran Berry, Potion, and Moo-Moo Milk), I think it could work. But is it worth it? Not really. It has to be at full health to do 100 damage, can't do damage if its health is half gone, and is in big trouble if it comes up against a Water-resistant Grass-type. As an ex staller, I think it's great. 200 HP means that unless Raichu ex gets pulled on it, you'll live long enough to get out of the way with Super Deep Dive.
     
  3. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    *Otaku enters. He seems to be wandering around looking at his deck and muttering: "Heehee... boom. Heehee... boom."

    :rolleyes:
    Okay, why am I giddy? I made a "gag" deck using Forretress and Electrode (both Uncommons, I think-it's the Grass Forretress), and I gotta tell you, this deck eats Wailord ex alive.

    "Silly Otaku, that's one lame deck, and you type-matched. Almost anything can be beaten through type-matching!"

    This is partially true. Hte deck existed before Wailord ex, but it does have the benefit of being able to nuke your Electrode to take out a fully healthy Wailord ex. That is not the real reason I brought up. The deck's main purpose is massive bench damage. Notice how our bench hitters have been kicked up a notch. The new Steelix, for example, can hit all benced Pokemon for 20, and also can Rage for up to 100 damage. Naturally, most decks run Mewtwo ex or Sandstorm Wobbuffet, and with good reason. WHile building Steelix, I make you eat a Wobbuffet. When you are done with it, I bring up a nice, built up Steelix, get one good shot at all your Pokemon for 20. Now Wailord must Heal, or get hit for 90 if it uses Dwindling Wave for 80... and that's if I have no "real" metals on me. If I have a few, it's game goes south fast.

    Also remember that once a single good attacker hit's it, it becomes pretty bad. Most "main" attackers average what, 50 damage? So one attack from the opponent and Dwindling Wave will ahve trouble OHKOing the competition. Two hits and you better play you can heal before your opponent can get to you. The bench is safer than it has been in... forever, but your supporting Pokemon can only last so long, and once the Wailord ex goes down, that's two prizes.
     
  4. bullados

    bullados <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?

    I've actually tried using this guy with his RS counterpart and Retro Energy, with Moomoo and Potion support, and a 4-4-4 Swampert line, and it tends to work extremely well. Get up a Wailord ex, hit till ya can't anymore (bout 60-70 damage), Super Dive, Retro, and BAM, ya got a 70 attacker with upwards of 100 HP remaining, which is very good, especially with the bench hitters and such in the format.
     
  5. Porygon3

    Porygon3 New Member

    dammage swap would rock with him. + dark vileplue + mr mime active... yay.. good times...
     
  6. Pidgeotto Trainer

    Pidgeotto Trainer New Member

    Damage Swap would be good but for Eon every deck should be able to damage him enough til he's useless in one attack. There are many better water pokes out there. Sharpedo, Kabutops ex, Holo Swampert.
     
  7. SwampertEX

    SwampertEX New Member

    I currently run a Swampert Deck that includes Wailord Ex, and let me tell ya, he can do wonders in a tight spot;) With 3 water call Swampert, I could have it fully powered up in no time! Try it before you diss it!
     
  8. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    A boom boom bang bang. How many bench damaging decks have you guys faced? What about hand control (Crobat/Persian), Supporter Denial (Armaldo), and Poke-Power Lockdown (Slaking). Still, since it's a Swampert deck that uses Wailord and Wailord ex, that might be the key: are you using it just as a relatively quick opener then getting it out of there with Retro Energy? If so, that is probably it's best use. Congratulations!:clap: That does sound nice a potent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2003
  9. SwampertEX

    SwampertEX New Member

    Hey, I know you! You do CoTD for Pojo, right? Anayways, people in my area don't use those decks much, but I did go up against a Slaking deck once. The thing was they never got him out!
     
  10. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    So does bullados, I think. ;) Anyway, Wailord ex seems to have a small niche, and it does beat the other Water Pokemon ex.
     
  11. Stegy

    Stegy New Member

    I think Kabutops ex beats Wailord ex on best Water ex Pokemon. Just my opinion, though.

    I like Wailord ex a lot. I dunno why, I just do. I mean, WWWC for 100- is NOT bad at all. 200hp is really awesome. The two-type weakness is what gets to me. Grass is played heavily (Trans Sceptile, Dustox, Shiftry) and the only playable Electric I can think of is Raichu ex. Wailord just needs time to set up, then it'd be a monster.

    Bullados mention of Retro/RS Wailord is a good idea, probably the best. Once Wailord ex gets about 60-70 damage, attacking would almost be pointless. Deep Dive, Retro, RS Wailord, energy.. 70 hp attacker. That's not bad at all. All Wailord ex needs is time to set up. Slaking and Gardevoir are two non-weakness decks that would make a huge dent in Wailord. With proper support Wailord ex would do okay. I can imagine it getting popular, but not Gardevoir popular, you know?

    My opinion. :thumb:
     
  12. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    Think harder then. ;) There are very few Electric Pokemn that work well in a "pure" Electric deck anymore, but there are many that work wonderfully in dual color decks. For example, I have been testing E3 Electrode with E3 (Grass) Forretress, and been getting some encouraging results (now the the format has been nailed down). The Holo-rare Manectric may look weak, but it's purpose is to load up Electri Energies and load them fast. If you let one or two "sacrifice" themselves for powering up others, you can build up some Camerrupts to the point where they should make up the prize difference easy. SS Elekid and Electabuzz show much promise as well (thogh Buzz won't apply W/R), but mainly as back up. If you have a way around it's Poke-Body, E2 Zapdos is quite nice. You average 10 to yourself each time you attack, but that is prety easy to take care of. The 60 flat your opponent will be taking, on the other hand, is hard to take care of. Similarly, E3 Raichu is also a nice lil' shock trooper. :p Zzap for 20 to each PokePower/Body or 50 with an average of 10 to itself per turn, but for only LCC. E3 Electrode can plasma for CC and do 20 with a 50% chance of ataching an (L) energy from the discard to itself. WHen it is about to die, blow it up for a massive 100 damage (after weakness, enough to OHKO a ully healty Wailord ex) and do 20 to each benched Pokemon-likely putting the hurt on another Wailord. E2 Ampharos can be quite nice with E2 Zappy for back up. This may not sound like much, but Electric has been somewhat neglected so far in Nintendo sets, so we'll see what Dragons brings...
     
  13. GuardianTIM

    GuardianTIM New Member

    Isn't WailordEX weak to grass?
    I run a deck which now mainly runs with Beautifly. :grass:
    It's 2nd attack costs 1grass, and 2 colourless energy, to do 50 damage, and remove a damage counter from each of my pokemon.
    Bearing in mind that Wurmple's attack lets me search for Silcoon AND Beautifly, all I need are 3 energy (one of which is grass), and a Wurmple in my hand to begin with, and on my third turn, I can pretty much make WailordEX unable to damage me.
    If, on the other hand, they use SuperDeepDive to heal themselves and retreat, they've just used their turn in giving me a new target to attack. :)

    Personally, I don't take WailordEX as too serious a threat. Sure, a great staller, but not good for attacking with unless your opponent hasn't done damage quickly enough, or you've been charging it while it was on the bench. However - this poses the inevitable problem - you'll need something to stall with so that you can have the time to charge up your WailordEX. :D

    The question is, would be a good card for this? :rolleyes: The solution is obvious! After all, WailordEX does make for a great staller... :p
     
  14. Lugias_Realm

    Lugias_Realm New Member

    Azumarill & Wailord

    Don't know why no one hasn't mentioned this combo unless I missed it through all the reading byt the combo of Wailord & Azumarill is playing real well at our league and is running extreamly fast. Oracle to search out the Evolution if needed or fastball or use Azurill to get whats needed. Play Seer and use Azumarills 1st attack and can sometimes have Wailord powered up as early as turn 2. Orion Berry & Potion combo to keep the damage off and he can be a big hitter throughout the match
     
  15. EeveeTrainer

    EeveeTrainer New Member

    Time for the out of the blue post by me.

    Ok now I first have to say that anyone that seeing Wailord as an attacker isn't really seeing him correctly. Yeah 100- is a nice attack I won't lie. But it's not the true point of him. Stick him up there and let him absorb some damage while you build up your real offense in the backround.

    See I think this game has 3 different types of Pokemon. Remember that this is STRICTLY my opinion and you are entitled to feel otherwise.

    Attackers: These are the pokemon you focus on. They do most of your damage and will most times win your games for you.

    Blockers: Big HP pokemon like Chansey and Wailord that can really take a beating before goind down. They're function is to buy you the precious time to set up your attackers on the bench.

    Clean up: These aren't your main attackers but will finish the game if they have the right time of attack.

    With that being said Wailord falls into either Blocker or Clean up. If you're trying to use him as a main attacker I do wish you luck because it's not the easiest thing in the world to do and I really praise those that can do it.

    Now as I said this is just my opinion and you can take it for what it's worth.

    -Saturn Knight
     
  16. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    That is a good start, but there are a few catagories I would add, or else would split other catagories up.

    Opener: A Pokemon useful when starting the game, though sometimes also for when your big hitter dies early. It has 4 main subcatagories.

    -[Offensive] Opener: A Pokemon with an inexpensive, strong attack. Note that strength is relative to speed, and second to it as well: Base Electabuzz is one good example: Thunderpunch made it almost strong enough to carry a deck (in Neon Modified-it did when it first came out in Unlimited :p ). Base Hitmonchan with it's Jab also did well. Basically they get an early prize or two for you while you build.

    -[Defensive] Opener: Your 'Blocker'

    -[Strategic] Opener: Does something increadibly useful. Rare to see a "pure" (neither offensive nor defensively gifted) opener.

    -[Hybrid] Opener: A rarity, this is good at blocking and getting an early prize (N2 Tyrogue), or blocking and drawing for a fast set-up (N1 Cleffa). Before Tyrogue came along, Kangaskahn was the "uber" opener": start out soaking damage and drawing (if Hitmonchan was absent), put another energy on it, and keep drawing until it was almost dead, then if they didn't SER it, slap a DCE and Comet Punch in the hopes of a prize. If they did SER it, just scoop it up to rob them of a prize. >:)

    TecH/Splashed Pokemon: Pokemon added to specifically combat a popular type. Right now, Kecleon is the embodiment of this for Eon. These are different then cleaners (though a good on will double as a cleaner or opener): a cleaner is usually included because your main hitter will usually bring you just shy of victory.

    Cleaner: As said, used in case your main attacker can't go the distance-Zangoose is an excellent cleaner for Eon, though a tad expensive.

    Well, my two cents, anyway. :)
     
  17. GuardianTIM

    GuardianTIM New Member

    My advice - if you have WailordEX in your deck, also have (4x) Super Scoop Up, or if Unlimited, then play the regular Scoop Up card...
     
  18. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    ACtually, try Mr. Fuji: it will shuffle everything back into your deck, and in Unlimitd, that makes it jsut an Oak Away...
     
  19. bullados

    bullados <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?

    How bout Retro NRG and the regular Wailord? That's the entire theme of my Wailord deck (along with multiple NRG attachment...)
     
  20. HYPER EEVEE

    HYPER EEVEE Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    I believe wailord takes to long any way playing him with swampert would stop the flow of his healing because mudkip's line doesnt haVe free retreat in it
     

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