EX Pokemon besides Mewtwo

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Turbo Blastoise, Aug 8, 2003.

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  1. Turbo Blastoise

    Turbo Blastoise New Member

    I was thinking with all the talk about Mewtwo EX, is that going to be the only real viable EX Pokemon in the new 'mystery' format? Do you think any of the other EX Pokemon besides Mewtwo EX are going to see lots of play in the upcoming new modified tournaments? If so, how? I would appreciate more discussion over this instead of just everyone focusing on Mewtwo(although one has to admit, it is good).
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2003
  2. Lion_of_Darkness

    Lion_of_Darkness New Member

    Well, that depends if Nintendo decides to ban any of the current Non-ex cards in the future. Some of the Ex Pokemon would work well if their winner cards would be banned from Modified in the future (like the Winner Electabuzz, then Electabuzz ex would be playable).
     
  3. Mystery Thing

    Mystery Thing Administrator

    magmar ex could maybe work in some sort of entei/cargo deck (not in really competitive play, mind you.) two fire and one anything for 40 and auto burn is pretty nice.

    competitive high level tournies, i don't think so. lapras is horrible, hitmonchan is worse than the base set one, sneasel is hitmo/rougue bait now that darkness is weak to fighting. scyther is so-so.

    chansey could maybe see some use if it could get going with unown n. but, then pichu will laugh at you while it destroys your unown on the bench and then watches chansey blow itself up.

    are they useable in fun, relaxed play? sure, why not. i think they're fun to use. but in true competitive tournies, i really don't think any other ones will show up.

    [edit] oops. wrong other unown.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2003
  4. Marril

    Marril New Member

    Hitmonchan appears very good upon first inspection. 50 damage for three energy that ignores resistance? Better than the Base 1 version. However, it's the fact that his Jab attack is so weak that seals it. Pity, because I like Sky Uppercut.

    Electabuzz is okay, I guess. Not quite sure how it's different at the moment except that Thunderpunch was 40+ or something. Probably has some drawback that I'm forgetting, lol.
     
  5. Carrington388

    Carrington388 New Member

    Well, have you noticed a pattern on all the EX cards in EX: Ruby & Sapphire?

    Each EX Pokémon has a type, which we'll label {X}. Each of them have two attacks. Now, here's where it gets into the pattern. All EX Pokémon in EX: Ruby & Sapphire have a first attack with an Energy cost of {X} and the second attack is {X}{X}{C}.

    Note that this pattern applies only to the EX Pokémon in EX: Ruby & Sapphire. This pattern doesn't apply to the Groudon EX and Kyogre EX promos
     
  6. Marril

    Marril New Member

    Also, the EX Pokémon are more powerful incarnations of the BBPs of yore ('Chan, MP Mewtwo, 'Buzz, Chansey, etc). It's just part of what makes them powerful.
     
  7. dkates

    dkates New Member

    I think the reason Mewtwo EX is causing so much talk is that it can pretty easily do 60 damage on turn 2. This is an ability that's hard to come by -- most Pokemon max out at about 40 damage on turn 2, I think. This is before Weakness, Resistance, and attached cards.
     
  8. BPM

    BPM New Member

    Personally, I like Lapras ex. Once I build myself a Water deck (one of these days) I'll definately shove two of 'em in (lucky me. I just got a second one recently).

    I mean, it's second attack is pretty good. 30 damage and automatic Confusion. It isn't often something does automatic Confusion.

    And I've used Electabuzz ex in my unlimited Psy-lectric deck. Sure, it takes one more Energy than Base Electabuzz, but it can do more damage, and NOT damage itself.

    And the higher HP on all of them (sans Chansey ex) is all good.
     
  9. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    Problem is, that they give 2 prizes, not one, so they need enough HP to make them equivalent to two of their BBP counter parts. Mewtwo comes off best: even in WotC modifed, its predecessor was banned. It also got it HP jacked up 30, which will do, since they kept its wonderful energy absorbtion attack and left Psyburn untouched... other than adding 20 to its base damage to give you 60 for PPC. Yeah, it's retreat is 3, but with energy absorbtion, you can actually pay it! The Confusion changes all helped Psychics like it that are weak to itself: 30 < 40. It's even got potential in unlimited: SCoop up and Focus band can make it a hard prize to get, 100HP let's it survive Sneasel unless it's got mad luck, and 60 base damage put it a Trainer away from KOing most other BBPs (like either a Plus Power or Magnifier).

    Anyway,a s for the others, most got so shafted on HP that they won't beable to survive long enough. Basically, most of the ex Pokemon need a minimum 100 HP so that they are roughly twice as hardy as their counterparts (they don;t need to be double their normal HP-harder to OHKO means more time to heal via Healing fields or Scoop up). Even without weakness, most are just too solid attacks away from becoming two prizes for your opponent. If Nintendo switches to Nintendo only, they might have a better chance, but mostly as TecH. The only real exceptions I see are Lapras and Chansey. SInc Metal Chansey is now dead (under Nintendo rules), the best way to approxitmate it is probably Slowking/Chansey EX. Slowking protects your Unown N and Sprout Tower, and now for CCC you hit for 50. Scoop up every now and then to really miff opponent's, and kill all Trygoue and Pichu on sight. In Nintendo's own format, if Tyrogue is gone, this becomes a nice universal back up: drop it, power it, and suicide it. Two double Edges can take out almost anyything, and if you nuke a fully loaded (insert big metal guy), its worth two prizes (since fuly loaded means al emtal now in Discard pile). )r you can go nuts, run 4, double edge once with each, Swtich to the next, then sacrifice the last one to heal the rest.

    Lapras just is bad. HP is great, but it tops out at a max of 30 daamge. even with Confusion, thats not enough. Sneasel will die when a decent Dak hits Nintendo's format.
     
  10. RaNd0m

    RaNd0m New Member

    You guys are completely underrating these cards. Nearly every one of them is playable in RS only... which will most likely BE the format Nintendo uses.

    Magmar ex is a beast... 40 and autoburn? It means by the time it's your turn again, odds are they'll have taken 60.

    Mewtwo ex is overrated... still good... but overrated. You can't get 3 energy on it turn 2 in RS only. Absorption is only good late game.

    Scyther ex is great in grass decks. Agility is a beautiful stall tactic, and with the lack of any decent gusts (I've found reversal not to be worth playing) you aren't going to get rid of it.

    Lapras ex is awesome in water decks. Auto confusion + 30 for 3? Nice.

    Electabuzz ex is great. Shock is decent, and quick attack is magnificent. The ability to do a possible 60 for 3 is great...

    Chansey ex will see a lot of play.

    Hitmonchan ex will see a lot of play, mainly to counter Slaking.

    Sneasel ex is a nice cleaner. Excellent card.

    So you see, nearly every one is playable. Don't start bashing them until you've actually played the format, because nearly every deck needs one of these for a solid basic while they build their evolution.

    ~ Rand0m
     
  11. meganium45

    meganium45 Active Member

    The two beasts which are not getting nearly enough talk are Kyogre EX and Lapras EX.

    These are both large BBP, with 110 HP and 120 HP respectively. Scoop them, nurse them, center them, nothing is going to take them out in a hit (except big lightning, rarely seen)

    120 HP and 110 HP basics, even for giving up 2 prizes are a rarity, and with a water pokemon (I think it is Marshtomp) that allows an extra energy attachment, they will be easy to power up and tough to deal with.

    Lapras EX is a tough customer, with auto confuse for 3 energy. Even though the confusion rules are better (retreat), you are only allowed one retreat per turn, so it forces you to puch out an active you may not be able to get back this turn (without switch, warp point, double gust, warp energy, ....)

    If fighting wasn't such a joke type, I'd like Groundon EX too!

    My 2 cents

    Meganium45

    I personally bet I will see NO EX cards not in raindance decks at my $200 completely unlimited tourney next week (we have to have something in St. Louis, since there is no R/S Challenge in range)

    I have my own thread for that......
     
  12. Marril

    Marril New Member

    :eek: When the heck did that happen? (I haven't cared enough to see what RS-only would be like, so forgive me if it's something obvious)
     
  13. Tails

    Tails New Member

    The problem with Kyogre, other than its extremely heavy-costed attack is the fact that it damages you when you do it. 10 to each bench Poké might not seem like much, but sometimes 10 HP is the game-deciding factor. That and the more you use it, the more you get hurt. It also eats through NRG extremely fast...

    Groudon seems a little better... base damage 80 (20 more than Kyogre)... However, it's price is just as steep as Kyogre, at four fighting. Its effect is also MUCH better, doing bench damage to the opponent only. Then again, like Kyogre, Groudon too eats energy like there's no tomorrow.

    Their retreat is 3, which REALLY burns, even more so due to their attack costs, so it's not really viable to run more than one in a deck, possibly two of you're playing mono.

    Then there's the EX factor. 120 HP sees the opponent two prizes ahead... and you four NRG down...

    Personally, I think these two are decent in casual, but have WAY too many drawbacks to regularly include in tourneys. Maybe one as a late-game card to seal the deal, but no more.

    What do you guys think?
     
  14. Pokeblob

    Pokeblob New Member

    quote "Groudon seems a little better... base damage 80 (20 more than Kyogre)... However, it's price is just as steep as Kyogre, at four fighting. Its effect is also MUCH better, doing bench damage to the opponent only. Then again, like Kyogre, Groudon too eats energy like there's no tomorrow."
    i think you will find that the bench damage is to your own bench not your opponents, making it weaker than you think
    Pokeblob
     
  15. dkates

    dkates New Member

    "
    Quote: Originally Posted by meganium45
    If fighting wasn't such a joke type...
    :eek: When the heck did that happen? "(posted by Marril)
    It happened when Fighting Resistance became so easy to find, I think. Also, it's not hard to counter Fighting, since all Fighting types have a Weakness, mostly to Grass, Psychic, or Water. Just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2003
  16. GOROY

    GOROY New Member

    Well so far I have only seen Mewtwo ex in play, and he took my evolution-resistant mews away.Which was bad for me, but by the time I got 4 prizes (from 2 mewtwos), My opponet waas down to one. If Mewtwo ex could do that, I don't think the other ex pokemon will have a hard time taking down pokemon.
     
  17. Marril

    Marril New Member

    Man. Even so, it's not really a "joke type" so much as it is a straightforward type. Sky Uppercut on Chan EX can get around them having resistance, I guess, but I haven't really tested it to know for sure. Weakness... well, even the best Pokémon have weaknesses.
     
  18. Martin

    Martin Active Member

    If were talking RS only, then EASILY the best EX is Magmar. That thing is TOO good.

    Mewtwo however would come in second.
     
  19. surfingpika

    surfingpika New Member

    The Ex pokemon
    Most of these ex pokemon are nice when you get them early game, other than Chanseyex.
    Laprasex would have been nicer if it's one energy attack caused auto confusion, and the second attack was like water gun, but it's a good staller, with 110 HP and confusion.

    Magmarex is a great pokemon to run the opponent out of trainners/energies very quickly, because smokescreen, while only doing 10 damage, can get destructive very quickly, or even change the attacker in 2on2. Burn is also a condition which will quickly force a switch, causing up to 40 damage by your next turn.

    Sneaselex, even though it has the capability of causing severe damage(140 max with 2 dark energies), it's just too slow, with dark being a special energy type, and no solution to it in Nintendo.

    Kyrougeex is somewhat useful as a sheer offensive pokemon, and I don't think you have to make it eat through the energies, but if you decide to in unlimited, there is always the transparent walls.

    Chanseyex is always good late game, espically if you have sacrficied deck space for pokemon and energies, and you don't have any potions. It can always prove to be annoying when you are fighting agianst self-destructers, or other bench killers(t-storm zappy, r/s and basic Weezing, Magneton, fossil/dark/shining Raichu), or when your pokemon are very tired.

    Those are all of the exs that I know for sure, and I don't want to talk about cards that I don't know.
     
  20. Gyarados vision

    Gyarados vision New Member

    I've seen more ex in the future sets. I can't interpret those cards right now (japanese) but I've seen Ampharos, Dragonite and Kingdra (three of them are ex) in a future set, ADV 3.

    Wanna see them? If you want to see them, the IMG code has to be turned on.
     

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