Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Final Four: Superwooper VS Slimeygrimey

Winner

  • Superwooper

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Slimeygrimey

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4
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Cyrus

Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
~~~SUPERWOOPER VS SLIMEYGRIMEY~~~

-Superwooper-

Superwooper
Name: SuperWooper
Date: December 9, 2005
Round: Final Four
Opponent: SlimeyGrimey
Secret Ingredient: Dark Vileplume Team Rocket, Dark Gloom TR (optional), and Oddish TR (optional).

Deck Name: Sticky Fever

Pokemon: 24
3 Oddish (TR #63)*
3 Dark Gloom (TR #36)*
3 Dark Vileplume (TR #13)*
3 Pidgey (RG #73)
3 Pidgeotto (RG #45)
3 Pidgeot (RG #10)
3 Grimer (TRR #56)**
3 Dark Muk (TRR #16)**

Energy: 16
12 Grass
4 Darkness

Trainers: 20
4 Rocket’s Hideout
3 Celio’s Network
3 Rocket Ball
3 Rare Candy
3 Holon Mentor
2 Copycat
2 Steven’s Advice

*TR = Original Team Rocket set by WotC.
**TRR = The currently modified legal EX: Team Rocket Returns.

Sticky Fever was partially inspired by the combination of the Pokemon Powers Sticky Goo on Dark Muk and Hay Fever on Dark Vileplume. The other half of inspiration came from the fact that I’m home sick right now and wanted you to share in my misery. Aren’t you lucky?

The combination between Dark Muk’s Power, which adds two stars to the opponent’s Active Pokemon’s retreat cost, and Dark Vileplume, which makes it impossible for either player to play trainers, is devastating. While a Pokemon like Octillery would make it nearly impossible to switch (I think the only things that could do it would be Warp and Cyclone energy, and of course GOW attacks), the synergy between Dark Muk and Dark Vileplume is MUCH stronger, as they have different weaknesses (Dark Vileplume has fighting weakness thanks to the misprint on WotC’s part) and they both take the same type of energy, AND they can both be searched for by Rocket Ball. The main focus of the deck is to get Dark Muk active, burn and poison, then pound away while stopping their retreat/switch.

The Pokemon lines are included in such a high quantity because after your first Vileplume ex comes out, there is no way to shut of it’s power except by using Dark Gloom’s power from the bench, which lets you flip a coin once per turn, and if heads, confuse your opponent’s active Pokemon (also great with Dark Muk to add a THIRD status condition), but if tails, confuse your OWN Pokemon, thus shutting Vileplume off. It’s a risky play, though. So a 3-3-3 line on the 2 Stage 2s and a 3-3 line of Dark Muk seemed appropriate to me.

And while the trainers seem a little heavy in a deck where they’ll be useless come 3rd or 4th turn, only 4 of them aren’t used in setup (Rare Candy acts as a setup card, but only 3 copies are used because of the heavy evolution lines): Rocket’s Hideout. And it’s included in copies of four to get the lock in quickly and efficiently, and then your opponent can never counter it. Holon Mentor is wonderful because you can discard worthless trainers from your hand when you are about to slap down a Dark Vileplume.

There it is! I await the judge’s verdict with anticipation.

-Slimeygrimey-
ingredient: dark vileplume

Pokemon: 28
4 Ludicolo DXH
2 Lombre
4 Lotad
3 Magcargo (2DX1, 1UF)
3 Slugma (collect)
2 Dark Vileplume
2 Oddish
2 Lanturn HL
2 Chinchou
4 Plusle

Trainers: 16
4 Celio
2 Elm's Training Method
4 Rare Candy
2 Swoop!
2 Desert Ruins
2 Battle Frontier

Energy: 16
1 Scramble
3 DRE
5 Water
4 Lightning
1 Heal
1 Warp
1 Cyclone

This deck is absolutely ridiculous because it can totally shut down your opponnent, while functioning to its full potential. There are no draw trainers except the 6 searchers and the 2 swoops which are used to consistantly set up your evos. The deck should function fine since you can get everything you need with Ludicolo and Magcargo. Meanwhile vileplume will be keeping them from setting up and drawing cards. Also you can lock a stadium in place with vileplume. This will absolutely shut down some decks such as RL, as they have no way to get around it and rely heavily on bodies and powers that are shut down by battle frontier. There are also deck such as ZRE and Medicham that are severely affected by desert ruins. You can hurt basically any deck by locking one of those two stadiums in place. With virtually no way to get at vileplume sitting on the bench, it will be very difficult for decks to set up and run while it is in play.

a somewhat large ludicolo and magcargo line are present to aid getting them out quickly. The deck would play only 1-1 vileplume, but i decided to put in an extra 1-1 to decrease the risk of one or both parts being prized, as that would severly hamper the deck's ability to win, as it would give your opponent a leg up since they have trainer cards, and you pretty much don't. You don't need a middle stage since it can't be atm rocked.

UF magcargo and lanturn are included to help against decks that ludicolo otherwise might have problems with if they managed to set up sufficiently despite your lock on them. Scizor, Zapdos and Rayquaza are all very dangerous. Magcargo can take care of Scizor, and Lanturn can do serious damage to both Zapdos and Rayquaza. After you take down one of any of these, you probably won't need to be very worried about any more, as your opponent should have used up most of their available resources getting that one out since vileplume (and possibly bf) has its lock on them.

I include exactly 2 of each stadium for the same reason that i include 2-2 vileplume - I don't them locked in my prizes. More than two, however, is likely wasted space, as once they are in play they will almost never be countered.

I include the 1 heal, warp, and cyclone to help make up for the trainers I lack, and I included only 1 scramble instead of the standard 2 partially because I wanted the space for water/lightning, partially because I should spend very little time behind on prizes since my opponent can't do much with vileplume in play. Rather than trade prizes like Ludicolo might usually do, this one should aim to take out what they do get early, and then just dominate them as they shouldn't have much. So a 2nd Scramble isn't necessary.
 
I voted for Superwooper.

Words on Slimeygrimeys deck:
The idea of using the LudiCargo machinery to draw, while locking with D-plume is great, but... with that trainer engine it just won't do. I have experience on this form testing Armaldo, putting in very few Supporters and relying on Pokemon or non-supporters to get set up... And so many times you run into a wall, because the job of setting up is too hard versus the trainers you have available. You will never draw an extra card until you have a Ludicolo in play, and I think in a lot of matches the "puzzle" will be too hard. You either have a basic, but not it's evo. You miss Rare Candy, you need energy but can't find it etc... So even though D-plume will put a lock on all trainers when in play, chances are you'll get there too late... The optimal game progress seems to be, start with Plusle, get Slugma, and then when/if you find a Magcargo, you see some light in the tunnel. I believe the idea could have worked if you went with a little stronger trainer engine, and took away some "tech" like Lanturn, and maybe a thinner Ludicolo-line, freeing up space for the needed draw cards.

Words on Superwooper:
As I said above trainers to set up IS THE KEY... It's easy to "view" the game as it evolves, thinking I can't play trainers DURING the game, so why put them in there in the first place? Well, luckily Superwooper you have a good trainer engine, almost what you could expect from any good deck, along with plenty of Pidgeot's to ensure safe access to cards. You don't have many "cooperative" basics (like Slimeygrimey has Plusle), but hopefully that Mentor will come along quickly... otherwise I see problems. Also Dark Muk and Dark Vileplume is a nice combo.

Feel free to disagree!!
 
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~~~SUPERWOOPER~~~

Deck (6/10): Hmmm, well so far, so good. However, I still have a few beefs. In a deck where trainers are shut off, it would be nice to have a good starting Pokemon, and you do not. Although Grimer and Oddish offer disruption, and Pidgey's evolutions have free retreat, it still kinda sucks to not have a good starter, and thus this leads me to question the initial speed of the deck. However, it looks consistent in terms of trainers...you could have used a little more draw, maybe just one more, because if you don't have a good setup, or good draw, then you're out of a game. IF you had a good starter then the previous comment wouldn't apply. Solid job, though.

Card Use (3/5): Dark muk's swarming power, plus all of the lethal status effects, and PLUS Rocket's Hideout...it works. No attacker really has "oomf," but then again, many great decks don't have "oomf" attackers (Medicham, for one).

Creativity (4/5): A creative approach to Dark Vileplume...truly unique way to approach the prompt! =)

OVERALL: 13/20


~~~SLIMEYGRIMEY~~~

Deck (9/10): Pretty nice list, here. The beefy Ludicolo line, the Plusles, swoops, and the _six_ searching cards justify the design of your list. Your energy seems just a "bit" shaky, but overall good.

Card Use (4/5): Although it's overall pretty good, I'm sure that you could have gone with better options. As previously mentioned, I have a slight problem with the energy; it just seems like one of the pokes (lanturn or ludi) would want that one extra basic energy. I dislike the UF cargo over the DX one, because this play potentially harms your consistency, and allows for more upset room; Lanturn solves most of your beefs with the ZRE-related Pokemon. However, your gym usage goes above and beyond...an eternal Ruins or BF is DEVASTATING =)

Creativity (3/5): Meh, a take on a pre-existing deck, but a well done one, and quite solid.

OVERALL: 16/20


I vote for SLIMEYGRIMEY!!!
 
DV + D Muk - Dark Muk (TR) was one of my unlimited faves for a long time. Nice concept with the R Pokeballs getting out both guys. However, unlike the old Dark Muk (TR) metagame, Dark Muk (RR) is not two hits away from KO'ing the most common hitters & it can't stand more than one hit from many, even with Rocket's Hideout. My first thought to even this out is to put in Tricky Gym to let even DV accellerate the status-damage against resistant/metal (Scizor) or retreated guys. With Pidgeot, maybe the POP2/E-Card Pidgeot could be used as a valve to turn off/on DV.

Ludicago + DV & Tech. Nice having a deck that can search its own energy and PKMN with the trainer lock on -- and which has tech against against both hard-to-kill and heavy hitter opponents. With the preponderance of PKMN, even with Plusle, one could get hung out to dry with slow starts.

SuperWooper:

Deck (7/10)

Card Use (3/5)

Creativity (5/5)

~~~OVERALL: 15/20~~~

SlimeyGrimey:

Deck (9/10)

Card Use (5/5) - maxed out the synergies of DV w/ Power Search & Stadia.

Creativity (2/5)

~~~OVERALL: 16/20~~~

I choose SLIMEYGRIMEY!!!
 
Based on Ancient Absol not posting a critique/scores, and based on Daddiursa not posting scores, this one will go to Slimeygrimey
 
Patriarch said:
Based on Ancient Absol not posting a critique/scores, and based on Daddiursa not posting scores, this one will go to Slimeygrimey

Wow, that's pretty lame. Thanks, judges. =/

Oh well. I made the Tournament of Champions. Can't complain. Hopefully we'll have judges that actually take the time to judge in the ToC. ;p
 
I don't like SlimeyGrimey's deck at all. 6 supporters is supposed to allow you to setup? Swoops are inconsistant too. And then he runs 4 stadiums in a deck that isn't hurt by ANY stadium? 2-0-2 Dark Vileplume is good use of the card? The deck isn't even centered around it. It's centered around Ludicargo/Lanturn, Dark Vileplume is just something else that sits on the bench and helps out.

No thanks.
 
SuperWooper said:
Wow, that's pretty lame. Thanks, judges. =/

Oh well. I made the Tournament of Champions. Can't complain. Hopefully we'll have judges that actually take the time to judge in the ToC. ;p

I didn't believe the judges panel would disagree so strongly on this one, so I just posted my vote + my reasoning around the decks. I had a very important exam today to worry about also, so I couldn't go much more in detail. So please excuse me there!

Too bad though, but as you see I DID vote for your deck. But in order to make my score change the outcome they would've had to have been at least 4 points apart, since Patriarch gave Slimeygrimey 3 more and Bulbasnore 1 more. My score would have been something like 12/20 and 15/20.
 
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Daddiursa said:
I didn't believe the judges panel would disagree so strongly on this one, so I just posted my vote + my reasoning around the decks. I had a very imortant exam today to worry about also, so I couldn't go much more in detail. So please excuse me there!

Too bad though, but as you see I DID vote for your deck. But in order to make my score change the outcome they would've had to have been at least 4 points apart, since Patriarch gave Slimeygrimey 3 more and Bulbasnore 1 more. My score would have been something like 12/20 and 15/20.

As for you having an exam, I would have skipped the judging too, probably.

And you did vote for my deck, but as you can see, since 'Snore and Patriarch combined voted 4 votes in Grimey's favor and you would have voted 3 apart, AncientAbsol (who voted for me, as the poll at the top of the thread is 2-2)'s vote, which would have had to have been at least 1 in my favor, would have tied and potentially won me the match. So your score would have changed the outcome, had you provided one and AncientAbsol provided one for his seemingly absent vote.

That's why I seemed to go off at this decision: The match would have been a tie, potentially a win for me, if scores had been provided (and if your explanation of how you would have voted had held up).
 
Yeah, I think Daddiursa explained the situation well. We on the judging staff voted, and because

A: me/snore offered score criteria, the ultimate standard in the contest

B: we really need to finish this

I decided to make the executive decision to hand you the loss. Sorry if there are any hurt opportunities, but you both did outstanding. I (and maybe we, 'cause I remember snore mentioning something about having a few extra packs) have some very special goodies that will go out to the final four! However, the real prize is that invite to the Tournament of Champions, because rest assured, the prize...will be VERY nice. I've no idea just how it will work, but you all will be pleased. =)

But I hope you understand the situation we're all in. With exams, work, problems, etc, I don't want to jump through the hoops of the "fifth wheel" judge. Rather, we'll solve that by shifting the panel around, most likely expanding it, and by making an odd number of judges, so that a group decision will always be concrete. The Grinder (done completely by me) and the ToC (by the aforementioned panel of all-stars :p) will be of the highest quality, since I am giving out a Tra-...oops, I must have typed that wrong :thumb:
 
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Patriarch said:
Yeah, I think Daddiursa explained the situation well. We on the judging staff voted, and because

A: me/snore offered score criteria, the ultimate standard in the contest

B: we really need to finish this

I decided to make the executive decision to have you the loss. Sorry if there are any hurt opportunities, but you both did outstanding. I (and maybe we, 'cause I remember snore mentioning something about having a few extra packs) have some very special goodies that will go out to the final four! However, the real prize is that invite to the Tournament of Champions, because rest assured, the prize...will be VERY nice. I've no idea just how it will work, but you all will be pleased. =)

Ehh, no problem. I totally understand why Daddiursa was late, although it was a dissappointing turn of events. Real life greater than sign judging a bunch of teenagers' Pokemon decks. ;p

=O *gasp* A prize?!!!//?! For ME!!>?
 
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