Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Fire Truk or GG?

In regards to which deck is more difficult to play, it is Gardevoir Gallade. Most top players will agree that the mirror match is one of, if not the most complicated matchup in the history of the game. In regards to which is better, its Gardevoir :biggrin:
 
Yes, I know what it does, but in that point of the battle most likly your opponent will have evolved most or all of their pkmn. BTW once the Gardy lv. x is gone then what?
Night Maintenance, Telepass Celio get it back. Only Magmortar can play around Bring Down effectively. Against most other decks (like Gatr/Catty/Ton), 2 Night Maintenance easily gets 3 Bring Down ko's if necessary to win. As long as you don't damage the bench, and have some kind of pokemon below 90 HP (like Magneton or Catty, or basics), Bring Down will work. Not to mention Psychic Lock basically autowins Gatr at a certain point, but that's a different, matchup-specific aspect.
 
i guess so. bring down is REALLY easy to play around, especially with magmortar, so i don't really consider it a viable attack. gallade's first attack is also very seldom used, so i wouldn't really count that as a viable attack either. magmortar has 5 VERY viable attacks. both of magmortar's, the lv x's, upstream, and typhlosion's attack will all win you games in different ways. for example, there is usually a big decision every game whether you want to hit for big damage or do 40-20-20 first. you have to really check your opponents energy in play and hp remaining before you decide your attack. it can sometimes cost or win you the game. i think gallade decks can be complicated at times, but not any more than magmortar.

Bring Down? Easy to play around for Magmortar if they're careful.

Sonic Blade? a Non-factor by itself.

Sonic Blade, then Bring Down? Unless you level up "and" attach a fire the very next turn, then your opponent will get one turn closer to a victory.

It's a complicated matchup, where playing is critical, but that's a "key" to edging out Magz at the end.
 
honestly kettler magmortar wins the matchup 7/10 games and in untimed games i'd say 9/10. unless you plan to NEVER break the psychic lock, gallade/gardy can't deal with typhlosion powering up a magmortar or 2. after you ohko the first magmortar, it will be hard or impossible to ohko a 2nd one.
 
Doesn't G&G run strength charms and plus powers? It wouldn't be impossible to OHKO another Magmortar. Even if you KO the Corsola for a prize, you can still flip over 2 prizes and with a strength charm OHKO a non-lv.X Magmortar (without DRE). I run 2 plus power and 2 strength charm and it's not unusual for me to lay a strength charm and sometimes even a plus power.

Played correctly, I definitely feel G&G has the edge. Magmortar takes time to setup, and relies on extra draw to setup, while Gardevior clearly gives G&G better setup by actually grabbing the cards you need. Half the time, you will be copying the opponent's celio, so Gardevior is just like FRLG Pidgeot, and we all know how broken it was.

And G&G can do damage easier and quicker than Magmortar. Magmortar might have more options, but it all takes time and luck drawing into the scrambles, which you will need against G&G. Magmortar takes 7 energy to OHKO anything on G&G's side of the field. That's like 2 scrambles and another energy. Sure, if you give Magmortar the time, they will get it accomplished, but it takes turns to do this if you aren't abusing scrambles for every attack. Even with 2 Typhlosion, that takes 3 turns (2 fire starter + 1 attack = 3 * 2 = 6). If Magmortar ever goes tied in prizes or above in prizes, I feel G&G could just steam roll from there. Throw in that Delcatty ex is OHKO-able without flipping any prizes with Gallade, and you have one of the deck's attackers pretty useless in the matchup.

I wouldn't even say Magmortar's poke-body even comes in that much use against G&G. Magmortar only has 110HP. If it gets hit for 80, and heals 20 of it, another shot of 60 is still going to KO it. I could maybe see Magmortar builds running buffer pieces over strength charms (if they had strength charms, mine doesn't) just to give it the extra protection it needs.

Overall, G&G has the advantage on multiple grounds. It's faster to setup because everything comes from the same evolutionary line, and because it has the new-age pidgeot grabbing most of the stuff for it. All Magmortar can do is just draw, draw, and draw more and it has to setup multiple stage 2's and stage 1's. Magmortar might be able to recycle energy, and that gives it an advantage on the issue of powering pokemon but G&G abuses DRE very well and scrambles too in the right situations, where Magmortar can only really abuse Scramble because DRE would ruin it's damage spread capabilities and it's sniping capabilities. Damage-wise, I feel Magmortar has the edge but still loses when compared to G&G because of G&G's ability to deal damage and KO without actually dealing damage. Sonic Blade reducing to 50 and forcing to the bench is nothing to laugh at, and is really only countered when Magmortar has the Delcatty ex on the field. In any other case, it's having to burn a switch/warp point or retreat and lose turns of firestarting and energy attachment. Bring Down is a definitely messed up attack, costing only 2 energy and being able to KO any pokemon that is the weakest. This is pretty decent against Magmortar's Delcattys and since Magmortar relies heavily on Delcattys to get setup, a quick swarm of Bring Down could mean problems, especially since Kirlia has 10 more HP than Delcatty, making it immune to most of the downsides of Bring Down.

Rambo1000, you obviously adore Magmortar. That is apparent. Others obviously adore G&G. I like both decks, but I can see that G&G has the edge when you look at it logically. How this applies to the actual games is totally different since luck and player skill can play a big difference in when Rambo1000 beats all the G&G at a tournament and when Cyrus goes undefeated with his G&G deck.
 
Prime I ran GG at Cities and really enjoyed it. However I think that Mags + Catty + Typh has a slight edge though much will depend on the various builds. Not so much my deck but most of the mirrors I played used DRE heavily and Typh can discard that ... this is a serious problem for GG. Catty can overcome Absol if they run it and can sometimes outspeed Stantler/Furret/Chime or whatever setup pokemon they use. Mags can one shot Gallade & Garde just like Gallade can one shot him ... but Mags can do so more consistantly. I don't agree with Rambo that this is a 9/10 or even a 7/10 in Mag's favor but I would say something like 55-45 or 60-40 in favor of Mags.
 
It's definitly in Mags favor. Just trying to take the last few prizes with Bring down dosn't work cuz all of them are stinking 110 hp STAGE ONES!!!


Mag is also more consistant.
 
Most GG decks have poor lists without the proper cards/techs to consistently beat a magmortar that doesnt get donked.

Bring down is ineffective vs magmortar because magmortar spreads damage. Rarely will a gardevoir lvl x be able to bring down the opponent over himself. That is a crushing blow to GG because it so heavily relies on bring down at least for 1-2 prizes at the very end game, when magmortar decks are fully operational and able to attach 3+ energy a turn and turn ridiculous tricks with 110+hp pokemon that GG can barely hit.
 
Having played and seen both decks win, Gardevoir/Gallade is a significant underdog without specific techs vs Magmortar. Anyone else who thinks otherwise isn't playing vs a good player/list. Spreading damage also doesn't work all the time, but it's irrelevant unless GG plays techs. Magmortar just wins if it doesn't.

On "Hurricane": you're just a blind homer if you think it beats GG. It doesn't. At all. It also doesn't even autowin Magmortar. Favorite? Yes. There's some keys for Magmortar to have a chance though.
 
Doesn't G&G run strength charms and plus powers? It wouldn't be impossible to OHKO another Magmortar. Even if you KO the Corsola for a prize, you can still flip over 2 prizes and with a strength charm OHKO a non-lv.X Magmortar (without DRE). I run 2 plus power and 2 strength charm and it's not unusual for me to lay a strength charm and sometimes even a plus power.

When are you going to find time to be able to manually power up a Gallade? If you aren't attacking me when i have Fire Truk by T3, and I'm setup, I retreat/Warp Point (if you have Mawile) and start spreading. If you are able to manually power up a Gallade, then your pokemon are seriously damaged, and I will be quite happy to put them down with a few Flame Blusters and Fireballs. My damage doesn't die out late game, yours does.

Played correctly, I definitely feel G&G has the edge. Magmortar takes time to setup, and relies on extra draw to setup, while Gardevior clearly gives G&G better setup by actually grabbing the cards you need. Half the time, you will be copying the opponent's celio, so Gardevior is just like FRLG Pidgeot, and we all know how broken it was.

It doesn't need to take time, most Fire Truk players will simply opt to TAKE their time. What do we have to fear from G&G? If they let us setup, we will start spreading, and take the lead if you get careless. If you go aggro early, we will respond with a scramble and spread some damage. Take that Mag down? Another mag, Lv up, Scramble, Wager (if played, which mst ive seen do), burn, kill Garde, and laugh. Next turn Gallade falls, and then the fun begins, because I can still power up another Mag on the bench, while you cannot get out another Gallade with ur Garde dead.

And G&G can do damage easier and quicker than Magmortar. Magmortar might have more options, but it all takes time and luck drawing into the scrambles, which you will need against G&G. Magmortar takes 7 energy to OHKO anything on G&G's side of the field. That's like 2 scrambles and another energy. Sure, if you give Magmortar the time, they will get it accomplished, but it takes turns to do this if you aren't abusing scrambles for every attack. Even with 2 Typhlosion, that takes 3 turns (2 fire starter + 1 attack = 3 * 2 = 6). If Magmortar ever goes tied in prizes or above in prizes, I feel G&G could just steam roll from there. Throw in that Delcatty ex is OHKO-able without flipping any prizes with Gallade, and you have one of the deck's attackers pretty useless in the matchup.

We have a 50/50 chance of starting with a scramble. After two energy draws, odds are we will have one. We also have draw cards, and use alot of search to thin our decks out. G&G takes around 3 turns to setup before it can attack (don't waste my time saying "Candy, Gallade, DRE Sonic then Psychic Cut", that means that Gallade dies you are done), that means:
-7 card in our starting hand
-Draw 1
-Corsola for 3
-Draw 1
-Delcatty 3
Thats 15 cards we have gone through in 2 turns, without further draw and searching, and since scrambles are 1/15 cards in the deck, it means on average we will get it. By the third turn, with another minimum of 5 cards gone, again without draw and search, that means we will have almost assured getting it. If we don't, bad luck happens, and this deck is quite capable f working around it.

I wouldn't even say Magmortar's poke-body even comes in that much use against G&G. Magmortar only has 110HP. If it gets hit for 80, and heals 20 of it, another shot of 60 is still going to KO it. I could maybe see Magmortar builds running buffer pieces over strength charms (if they had strength charms, mine doesn't) just to give it the extra protection it needs.

Hit for 80? Lol? Ur gonna Flip one Prize against us before you can take us out? You hit us for 60, we probably wnt even bother to heal, unless you have no prizes left face down. If thats the case, Lv up, heal for 20, fry. Now we have 90 left, and you can't touch us. The healing only comes into play when you Sonic Blade us, and it isn't even used alot.

Overall, G&G has the advantage on multiple grounds. It's faster to setup because everything comes from the same evolutionary line, and because it has the new-age pidgeot grabbing most of the stuff for it.

Grabbing wat? We dont use basic grabbers due to Corsola (except maybe roseanne), so you get to use our... draw and celio. Great, considering if we play celio we are pretty much on our way to setting up, whereas you are just starting, and draw is only used after all essential supporters are used. You seem to have forgoten that WE control what you use. If we feel you are undeserving of a Copycat, we shall withhold it. We are in control of what you use, new age Pidgeot my ***.

All Magmortar can do is just draw, draw, and draw more and it has to setup multiple stage 2's and stage 1's.

EXCUSE ME?! Aren't YOU the one with all the Gallades and the Gardeviors? We need to setup ONE stage two, a single Typhlosion is all that is nessesary for the deck to get on the way. And multiple stage ones? Are you kidding me? Corsola, Celio, bam. You, however, need to wait for our celio's for you to setup.

Magmortar might be able to recycle energy, and that gives it an advantage on the issue of powering pokemon but G&G abuses DRE very well and scrambles too in the right situations, where Magmortar can only really abuse Scramble because DRE would ruin it's damage spread capabilities and it's sniping capabilities.

Start abusing DRE and Typhlosion will make short work of your energy supply. You might be able to take him out after a few hits, but considering you energy supply is limited, unlike ours, you will run out first. And don't even count on Scramble working until its too late for you. Mag almst never draws first blood, so if your Scrambles are working, its already too late for you.

Damage-wise, I feel Magmortar has the edge but still loses when compared to G&G because of G&G's ability to deal damage and KO without actually dealing damage.

Your Bring Down will almost never work for you. You might get ONE prize with it 1/5 games, but since we spread damage alot more effectively than you do, you will often find you cannot use the attack without committing suicide. And you can deal Superious damage once, maybe twice, you will still have 3-4 prizes left, and considering you don't even come close to dealing the amount of damage we can throughout the game, you are fighting a losing battle.

Sonic Blade reducing to 50 and forcing to the bench is nothing to laugh at, and is really only countered when Magmortar has the Delcatty ex on the field. In any other case, it's having to burn a switch/warp point or retreat and lose turns of firestarting and energy attachment.

Or its countered when... we have another Magmortar on the bench who has been powered up by a Typhlosion who we can send out to rain death upon you? Or when we can spare one energy to retreat a Delcatty? Seriously, dropping a Magmortar down to 50 always makes me laugh, and will continue to do so as long as people think they are honestly going to get anywhere by doing that.

Bring Down is a definitely messed up attack, costing only 2 energy and being able to KO any pokemon that is the weakest. This is pretty decent against Magmortar's Delcattys and since Magmortar relies heavily on Delcattys to get setup, a quick swarm of Bring Down could mean problems, especially since Kirlia has 10 more HP than Delcatty, making it immune to most of the downsides of Bring Down.

Considering we are spreading damage, yeah, Bring Down could cause problems. For you. If you stop paying attention and use it.

Rambo1000, you obviously adore Magmortar. That is apparent. Others obviously adore G&G. I like both decks, but I can see that G&G has the edge when you look at it logically. How this applies to the actual games is totally different since luck and player skill can play a big difference in when Rambo1000 beats all the G&G at a tournament and when Cyrus goes undefeated with his G&G deck.

Looked at it logically, saw logic, looked at your post, laughed, corrected, posted. Fire Truk has the edge, as has been proven time and again. Seriously, G&G isn't even a real issue if the Fire Truk player keeps his head and plays smart.
 
Doesn't G&G run strength charms and plus powers? It wouldn't be impossible to OHKO another Magmortar. Even if you KO the Corsola for a prize, you can still flip over 2 prizes and with a strength charm OHKO a non-lv.X Magmortar (without DRE). I run 2 plus power and 2 strength charm and it's not unusual for me to lay a strength charm and sometimes even a plus power.

Played correctly, I definitely feel G&G has the edge. Magmortar takes time to setup, and relies on extra draw to setup, while Gardevior clearly gives G&G better setup by actually grabbing the cards you need. Half the time, you will be copying the opponent's celio, so Gardevior is just like FRLG Pidgeot, and we all know how broken it was.

And G&G can do damage easier and quicker than Magmortar. Magmortar might have more options, but it all takes time and luck drawing into the scrambles, which you will need against G&G. Magmortar takes 7 energy to OHKO anything on G&G's side of the field. That's like 2 scrambles and another energy. Sure, if you give Magmortar the time, they will get it accomplished, but it takes turns to do this if you aren't abusing scrambles for every attack. Even with 2 Typhlosion, that takes 3 turns (2 fire starter + 1 attack = 3 * 2 = 6). If Magmortar ever goes tied in prizes or above in prizes, I feel G&G could just steam roll from there. Throw in that Delcatty ex is OHKO-able without flipping any prizes with Gallade, and you have one of the deck's attackers pretty useless in the matchup.

I wouldn't even say Magmortar's poke-body even comes in that much use against G&G. Magmortar only has 110HP. If it gets hit for 80, and heals 20 of it, another shot of 60 is still going to KO it. I could maybe see Magmortar builds running buffer pieces over strength charms (if they had strength charms, mine doesn't) just to give it the extra protection it needs.

Overall, G&G has the advantage on multiple grounds. It's faster to setup because everything comes from the same evolutionary line, and because it has the new-age pidgeot grabbing most of the stuff for it. All Magmortar can do is just draw, draw, and draw more and it has to setup multiple stage 2's and stage 1's. Magmortar might be able to recycle energy, and that gives it an advantage on the issue of powering pokemon but G&G abuses DRE very well and scrambles too in the right situations, where Magmortar can only really abuse Scramble because DRE would ruin it's damage spread capabilities and it's sniping capabilities. Damage-wise, I feel Magmortar has the edge but still loses when compared to G&G because of G&G's ability to deal damage and KO without actually dealing damage. Sonic Blade reducing to 50 and forcing to the bench is nothing to laugh at, and is really only countered when Magmortar has the Delcatty ex on the field. In any other case, it's having to burn a switch/warp point or retreat and lose turns of firestarting and energy attachment. Bring Down is a definitely messed up attack, costing only 2 energy and being able to KO any pokemon that is the weakest. This is pretty decent against Magmortar's Delcattys and since Magmortar relies heavily on Delcattys to get setup, a quick swarm of Bring Down could mean problems, especially since Kirlia has 10 more HP than Delcatty, making it immune to most of the downsides of Bring Down.

Rambo1000, you obviously adore Magmortar. That is apparent. Others obviously adore G&G. I like both decks, but I can see that G&G has the edge when you look at it logically. How this applies to the actual games is totally different since luck and player skill can play a big difference in when Rambo1000 beats all the G&G at a tournament and when Cyrus goes undefeated with his G&G deck.

tl;dr but i'll just say that if you ever tested against any real magmortar lists, you'd realize g&g has the disadvantage and pretty much autoloses in untimed games.
 
Having played and seen both decks win, Gardevoir/Gallade is a significant underdog without specific techs vs Magmortar. Anyone else who thinks otherwise isn't playing vs a good player/list. Spreading damage also doesn't work all the time, but it's irrelevant unless GG plays techs. Magmortar just wins if it doesn't.

On "Hurricane": you're just a blind homer if you think it beats GG. It doesn't. At all. It also doesn't even autowin Magmortar. Favorite? Yes. There's some keys for Magmortar to have a chance though.


QFT - Chad knows the truth
 
if it is an untimed match. fire TRUK has the win. i have proved it with my friends and family. in fact the only times i lose against g&g is when its a touurney and they call time or im palying a really good player with a good list
 
a DECENT G&G beats a DECENT fire truck. what is decent? GG that runs absol and 3 gardy and 2 gallade mostly. if the gg player doesnt get a crappy start, they can beat fire truck. fire truck will get out their basics w/ corsola but absol will discard their supporters and if they never get past basics, GG wins. if GG doesnt run absol then magmortar would have the edge but bottom line is that if someone knows how to play the DECENT GG deck...they will most likely win by out-playing the fire truck player. It wouldn't be easy, but GG could win. Magmortar places a very strong second though.
 
T-2 Magmortar is 60-40 against hurricane
Fire Truk is at 30-70 against Hurricane. This is a VERY winnable matchup....
 
Back
Top