Giratina lv X - Big Hand Disruption

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Shrouded in Darkness, Jun 8, 2010.

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  1. EDIT: BIG change in the list, scroll down for the real one.

    Hello all!

    I'm Shrouded in Darkness and this here is my first post, and since I'm new to this forum please correct me if I'm doing anything wrong. :D

    Ok, first of all I just want to say I'm pretty new to pokemon tcg, so there's a big chance there's nice cards I don't know about, that's why I'm turning to you experienced guys. So I just stumbled across the new format change that dictates Majestic Dawn and onwards, and thought I'd prepare for the change. Since Claydol is out, and since there seems to be NO equally good pkm for drawpower I reckon hand disruption will be pretty effective and therefore I thought I'd try to make a deck that focused on eating up the opponent's hand, and this is what I came up with.

    PKM: 21

    1 Giratina lv X
    3 Giratina PL

    1 Dusknoir lv X
    2 Dusknoir SF
    1 Dusknoir DP33 Promo
    2 Dusclops
    3 Duskull

    2 Drifblim SF
    2 Drifloon MD

    1 Uxie lv X
    2 Uxie

    1 Azelf

    TRN: 25

    3 Rare Candy
    3 Looker's Investigation
    4 Poké Drawer +
    3 Interviewer's Questions
    3 Bebe's Search
    2 Pokémon Communication
    1 Luxury Ball
    2 Switch
    2 Palmer's Contribution
    2 Pokémon Rescue

    ENG: 14

    11 Psychic Energy
    3 Cyclone Energy

    Now, Drifblim is (hopefully) the starter and with its Lift I bench 1 Giratina+Energy and 1 Duskull+Energy. I attach another energy to Giratina and the next turn I retreat (free of charge) and switch to Giratina. From here on the plan is to lvl it up and make my opp discard 1 card every time he attacks (lv X's Poke-Body), as well as shuffle 1 card back into the deck each turn with Dark Wing Flaps. Also I try to get the Promo Dusknoir out on the bench and start flippin' for his Poke-Power that lets me look at my opp's hand and shuffle back 1 pokemon from there. Now that's a potential of -3 cards per "turn" (as in the time from my attack to my next attack) and if he has a big hand then I just shrink it with a Looker's Investigation.

    The Shadow Command Dusknoir would double as drawpower as well as a 1 time heavy snipe, as he will get more and more dmg from Shadow Command and has the attack Damage Even that lets me put as many dmg counters on any of my opponent's pokemon as there is counters on Dusknoir. And as I lvl Dusknoir up when he gets active, that's a potential 130 dmg snipe, before he dies and becomes that nasty stadium card.

    From here on, as long as my opponent doesn't replace the Dusknoir lv X-stadium, I can spread dmg with Giratina lv X's Darkness Lost for a total of 50 dmg on ALL the opponent's pokémon per turn (10 dmg from stadium, 30 dmg from Giratina and another 10 from the stadium).

    If the Giratina lv X gets killed, I need to get the lv X card back immediately with Pokémon Rescue and lvl up a new Giratina to keep the card-discard at a max. Also if 2 Giratinas has died the ideal plan is to play a Palmer's Contribution, then switch to Drifblim and Lift one or both of the Giratinas onto the bench with one energy each.

    My big concern though is that the Dusknoirs is stage 2 and therefore incredibly slow to get out without the drawpower from Claydol. And becouse of that I don't know if the drawpower from Shadow Command will be much of use..

    So any comments, tips, critique and thoughts on this deck are HIGHLY appriciated!! :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  2. shadowxxxsamurai

    shadowxxxsamurai New Member

    to be honest i think giratina let loose is better. also i think you should run sableye and cyrus's initiative, and judge and disruption stuff like that. that way you can giratina ll so you both have 4 cards in hand then use sableye to search initiative and maybe flip 1-2 heads and pick and choose cards outta their hand! just like the combo in sableye/honchkrow/garchomp
     
  3. Thank you shadowxxxsamurai! I didn't know about Cyrus's Initiative, or Sableye and Garchomp C. Ok, this pretty much meant a complete makeover for the deck. I found some article about the Sableye/Honchkrow/Garchomp deck and I found that it had pretty much the same utilities that I tried to incorporate into my deck. Only this deck did it som much more efficient. Sableye is a much better starter then Drifblim so I replaced those. Garchomp C is a better sniper then Dusknoir and infinitely faster so I switched those too. And then I added Energy Gains for Garchomp C, and some SP Radars and a bunch of other stuff. Now here's the new list:

    PKM: 19

    2-2 Giratina lv X (still not the Let Loose, I'll explane in a minute)
    4 Sableye
    2-2 Garchomp C lv X
    1-1 Mismagius PL (the Misdreavus is SF)
    1 Chatot G
    2 Crobat G
    2 Uxie

    TRN: 27

    3 Judge
    3 Cyrus's Initiative
    2 Cyrus's Conspiracy
    2 Pokémon Collector
    2 Bebe's Search
    1 Interviewer's Questions
    1 Palmer's Contribution
    3 Expert Belt
    2 Energy Gain
    2 SP Radar
    1 Luxury Ball
    3 Poké Turn
    2 Warp Point

    NRG: 14

    7 Psychic
    3 Special Darkness
    4 Double Colorless


    Ok so basically this is like the Sableye deck only I left the Giratina line there instead of Honchkrow. Now I give you that Salbeye is a faster discarder, and I will start the fight with an Impersonated Initiative before I switch to Giratina. I just think that Giratina is a more solid card discarder once its powered up. This is why:

    1. Sableye Impersonating an Initiative will on average discard 1 card, while Giratina always will discard 2 (given that my opponent attacks, if he doesn't well good for me :D).

    2. Giratina's attack does not discard Initiatives wich means I can keep the disruption that Sableye started up much longer. This also means I will have a much bigger chance of picking up the Initiatives and using them in the same turn at Giratinas attack.

    And on top of this Giratina does damage when he discards, 40 with Expert Belt. He also has a straight forward 60 attack (80 with belt) which means I don't have to switch to Garchomp every time I need to KO the defending pokemon, and can save the Garchomp snipes for benched pokemons. Also his 30 damage spread makes it much easier to snipe with Garchomp, plus it lets me put key pokemon into the Lost Zone (Magicarps!).

    I added Special Darkness Energies to enable Sableye to donk the first turn, and Expert Belts to help him donk the second turn (also the Giratina bennefits greately from Expert Belt). There's so many Interviewer's Questions becouse they can find the Special Darkness and Double Colorless Energies to futher help the Sableye donk as well as Garchomp. Oh and the Mismagius line is for dealing with Mewtwo lv X.

    I would love some input as to whether my trainers and energies are balanced or not, keep in mind there's still 2 slots left to fill.

    THANKS!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  4. Gwaihir75

    Gwaihir75 New Member

    Not bad.... Why don't you use poke turns? If you use crobat g IMHO you need 4 poke turns. I'm not skilled sablelock player but i would definitely consider it.
     
  5. Ah, the Poké Turns! Ok, Poké Turns get dips on the last 2 open spots. But I don't know what else to take out. I don't think I can fit 4 turns, but maybe 3. Should I take away the Luxury Ball? Thats the only drawpower I can't find with Cyrus Conspiracy or Impersonate.
     
  6. Magic Karp

    Magic Karp New Member

    No, I would keep the Luxury Ball.
     
  7. AyameHikaru

    AyameHikaru New Member

    I'd take out an Interviewer's for another 'Turn.
     
  8. shadowxxxsamurai

    shadowxxxsamurai New Member

    its really starting to look good, im glad you incorporated the sabelock idea into it, you could dropa palmer for the spot, you really dont need two. :)
     
  9. The more I view the deck the more I appreciate it, the idea is fantastic, I think however that you may lack raw damage output. Spiritomb (LA) is a possible card to consider if you want to add to spread damage, although there is no certain way to return it to your hand. Im thinking Palmers can go for the PokeTurn. I would replace one of the Giratina with the Let Loose one I mean come on youre ignoring experienced players here - Personally Ive been playing 11 years. Giratinas spread attack will be almost completely nullified by Nidoqueen (RR) so Garchomp C is useful to snipe that I guess, but it wont nearly OHKO. I would maybe add an extra Chatot G at the expenseof an Interviewer's.
    Pokemon Collector is a trainer you should definitely consider as well.
    Peace, Pyrocitor xx
     
  10. C-U elite

    C-U elite New Member

    Try this Giratina Line

    1 Let loose
    1 Strafe
    1 Lv. X

    Let loose will be very good next format and with strafe you can get the X on the bench away from Harms way and attck with something eles. That way the cant kill your X as easy
     
  11. Thanks for all the input everyone! Most appriciated! <3
    @ Kiki Lava Apple Eruption: I already have Pokemon Collectors :D

    Ok, first of all, I'm updating the list with the following changes:
    -1 Palmer's +3 Poke Turn
    Also I had forgot that I need some means to retreat Giratina to Garchomp when the need arises, so
    +1 Warp Point -1 Palmer's But I need 1 or 2 more Warps so any ideas on what to take out? :S

    Now about the damage output. I'm well aware of this, that's one of the reasons I added the Expert Belts. The thing is though, do you think I need much more firepower considering this: After an early Sableye-->Initiative followed by the constant discard from Giratina my opponent's set up will be VERY delayed. And during this extra time I just bought I can do mediocre 40 dmg per turn (with belt) while also maintaining the disruption. Because the whole plan with Giratinas spread and discard attack is to stall my opponent, and deal some damage in the meantime. Then when he gets free from the disruption his pokemon will hopefully have enough damage on them to be easy targets for garchomp snipes and Giratinas Wrack Down. I don't really plan to kill them with the discard attack. One spread + Garchomp would do 110 dmg, which would put me a Crobat away to finish for example a Nidoqueen. (Another way would be to use Giratinas Wrack Down, if he has a belt it would do 80, and with Nidoqueens weakness the total would be 110, so again a Crobat away. But then I need some Cyclone Energy or Warp Points or something to lure the Nidoqueen out.) So thoughts on this? Am I not realistic or is there a hole in my logic here? :)

    Now onto the Let Loose issue. :p I must admit I don't really se why Giratina Let Loose would be so much better then simply using a Judge. Ok, its searchable with Pokemon Collector and Bebe's. But Judge can be found with Cyrus's Conspiracy and it can be Impersonated. So here Giratina got no advantage. The other advantage I can think of would be that Giratina isn't a supporter, so I could play Giratina AND use a supporter in the same turn, an Initiative for example, before Impersonating another Initiative or whatever. BUT, after I play Let Loose the odds of me having a supporter on my 4-card hand are not the best, the odds of that supporter being the right one for the occation is even slimmer. PLUS having a Let Loose Giratina instead of the discard-Giratina means the hand disruption after Sableye is half as effective. And this, I think, can easily lead to my opponent getting out of the disruption before I have spread enough damage around to be able to snipe. This would undermine the whole idea of the deck. Yes Let Loose is great, but if it was a Sableye that had that ability, I'm pretty sure that Sableye/Honchkrow/Garchomp decks would not replace some of their precious SF Sableye's but instead run Judges.

    Don't take me wrong, I'm not ignoring the advices of experienced players! I just want to understand. These are just my thoughts and if I'm still wrong then please correct me and explain why. :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  12. Gwaihir75

    Gwaihir75 New Member

    IMHO you can use judge and draw 4 cards in case you can play them so you have giratina Let loose in your hand then you can refresh your hand with Let Loose.

    I don't think you need 2 Interviewer's Question's. You don't need a lot of energies in your hand if you are going to play judges and/or let loose. I think 1 is enough - even prized (you can find energies with cyrus).
     
  13. shadowxxxsamurai

    shadowxxxsamurai New Member

    i think you want giratina as an attacker and a hand disruptor. so that means no let loose. i understand the 40 damage and a hand drop is really great and hard to keep coming back form other than an uxie or a claydol. you might want to consider something to do against them, maybe pokemon reversal or something to lure them out. granted and claydol shouldnt last more than one turn with your garchomp c lv x. this deck has come a very long way form when i first looked at it and right now it has so much potential. now the thing about getting judge with cyrus, at one point you will want to keep getting cyrus and not judge him away. also, i feel that by turn 2-3 they will have no hand, i know it feels like cramming but you may want to try to fit in either mesprit or a power spray. everyone is telling what you need to add but not really what you need to take out so i think you should take out a belt and a palmers and interviewers questions for either 3 mesprit or 3 power spray and 1 warp point. i will put this on my redshark and do some testing and i will let you know what i think needs to go in and what needs to go out at this point. and if there are any consistency problems in it but at this point it seems fairly consistent.

    so i think you need moonlight stadium. i just tested it once on redshark it had no problem other than that imo. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  14. Thank you soo much shadowxxxsamurai! Really appriciate it!!

    I made this deck mainly to fit into the new formt MD-on, just because Claydol would be out. So that only leaves us Uxie. I've gazed and drooled upon Power Spray because that would cover the Uxie-come back. But unless I have both my Chatot G and a Crobat G sitting on the bench I won't be able to use it. But maybe crobat will be out more often then not? I haven't played with crobat before to be honest. So considering this do you think it's worth having Sprays? Coz' I'd love to have them, I just thought I wouldn't be able to use them efficiently.

    I also wanted to have Moonlight Stadium, but that gets rotated out :mad: And with just 1 warp point the Geratina is like a block of concrete.. It would be so nice to just retreat for free but.. Do you think 3 warp points are enough to be able to move around? I'll take away 1 Interviewer for another warp, but is it worth it to let the last Interviewer remain, as Sableye can Impersonate it to try to find a Darkness Energy and enable a donk if the opportunity arises?

    Now the last Palmer's. I'm just worried that if one of my fully powered up Giratinas dies (4 energies in the discard) and I've used Garchomp twice (4 energies or 2 Double Colorless in discard) I will be starving from Energies. Don't you think I need at least 1 Palmer's or 1 Fisherman or something?

    Also I think I'll change 1 Darkness for 1 Double Colorless.
     
  15. Denjin Hadou

    Denjin Hadou New Member

    Note that Sableye's Overconfident hits for 40 as long as his HP > their HP. With an Expert Belt, it goes up to 60, and with Darkness Energy it goes to 70. So, Sableye is far from mediocre so long as you remember to drop those G-Bats.

    The only sure way to get that Nidoqueen out would be to use Luxray GL-X. You can also try with Pokémon Reversal, luck pending.

    This is how you combo Sableye with Giratina.

    1. Start Sableye
    2. Drop Giratina
    3. Use Let Loose
    4. Attack with Impersonate, using Cyrus's Initiative.
    5. Opponent's hand gets shortened to anywhere from 4-2.

    This obviously, is best at the start of the game or when you're certain your opponent won't draw into anything good (if you used Chatot G's Disrupting Spy) and won't be able to damage you.
     
  16. Yes, I'm aware of this, and this is why I added Darkness Energies, Interviewers (to find the darkness energies), and Expert Belt. If possible I will donk with Sableye. But I won't have Sableye as my main attacker, as my opponent after a while will get pkm out with more hp then Sableye. What I meant was mediocre was the damage from Giratina's Dark Wing Flaps, which I will use to discard and maintain the hand disruption.

    I understand, I just don't think it's worth giving up one discard-Giratina for this combo when I could play Judge instead of Let Loose Giratina then Impersonate an Initiative for the same result. Sure the odds of having some supporter to find the Let Loose Giratina is slightly higher then getting a Judge, but again not worth changing Giratinas. Otherwise the plan is to do exactly as you said, and as early as possible, but with a Judge instead of Let Loose.
     
  17. shadowxxxsamurai

    shadowxxxsamurai New Member

    well also they can stop poke powers but they cant stop supporters. so in this sense he's better off without it because he wants to constantly discard that a one time drop. so everytime he will attack and if they attack they have to drop another card for giratina lvX i hate the fact that moonlight stadium is going out. so you can only really run warps and switches. but if he warps it helps with disruption in a way
     
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