Hand Killer

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by vietgamer1021, Dec 2, 2007.

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  1. vietgamer1021

    vietgamer1021 New Member

    Pokemon: 11
    4x Absol SW
    3x Aipom MT
    3x Ambipom MT
    1x Sableye CG

    Trainers: 35
    3x Celio's Network
    3x Dual Ball
    2x Roseanne's Research
    4x Pokedex Handy910
    2x Castaway
    1x Scott
    3x Team Galactic Mars
    2x Professor Oak’s Visit OR Steven’s Advice
    1x Professor Rowan OR Copycat
    1x Team Galactic's Wager
    2x Crystal Beach
    3x Cessation Crystal
    1x Strength Charm
    4x Energy Removal 2
    1x Night Maintenance
    2x Warp Point

    Energy: 14
    4 Dark (special)
    2 Double Rainbow Energy
    2 Cyclone
    6 Dark (basic)


    Main strategy of this deck: to disrupt the opponent all over the place, locking them down. The main target of disruption is their hand with Absol and Ambipom, and in the case of Ambipom, if they do not/cannot discard, they take a whopping 80 damage (70 with DRE). With the lockdown of their hand, they will not be able to set up, but there are other cards that will help the lockdown happen for sure (shown below and above)


    Pokemon: 11

    4x Absol: disrupts the opponent’s hand with Baleful Wind, slowing their setup down, and forcing them to rely on what little they have left and top decking what they need. Also can do 10-50 damage, depending on the amount of special Dark energies attached to it, and if you played Absol from your hand that turn. Is the preferred starter

    3x Aipom: used to evolve into Ambipom. If starting with Aipom, attempt to search for Ambipom as fast as you can to start attacking their hand/Pokemon

    3x Ambipom: same as Absol, but can also do heavy damage their Pokemon if they do not want to discard 2 cards from their hand

    1x Sableye: counters Blissey with its great disable attack which disables (haha) one attack on the Defending Pokemon, too bad Blissey only has one attack :D


    Trainers: 35

    3x Celio’s Network: searches for any Pokemon in the deck

    3x Dual Ball: searches deck for up to 2 basic Pokemon and places them in hand. This is used to play Absol and use Raid for 40-50 when needed to

    4x Pokedex Handy910: looks at the top two cards of the deck, and you take one and put the other one on the bottom of your deck. Helps with setting up quickly

    2x Roseanne’s Research: searches for a combination of 2 Pokemon and/or basic energy, gets Aipom to begin setting up if you start with an Absol only

    2x Castaway: gets a Supporter, a Tool, and a basic energy of your choice

    1x Scott: also helps retrieve valuable Supporters and/or Stadiums

    3x Team Galactic Mars: self-explanatory, disrupting the hand but also allowing you to draw cards

    2x Professor Oak’s Visit or Steven’s Advice: alternate draw cards to Mars, both can potentially draw more than Mars, getting you what you need faster.

    1x Professor Rowan or Copycat: both help you refresh your hand, Copycat being good early in the game since they opponent MAY mulligan, giving you an opportunity to get a bigger hand, although when you start disrupting their hand, Copycat seems a bit useless. Professor Rowan helps you to refresh your hand also, being an all-around card compared to Copycat

    1x Team Galactic’s Wager: a hand disruption card, especially after your opponent searches their deck for something and puts in into their hand or if they have a big hand. Force them to shuffle and ruin their hand. With a potential 3 card hand for them, they will be screwed over once you start disrupting, but even if they win RPS and get 6 cards, their hand will be ruined and you still can start disrupting with Absol/Ambipom.

    2x Crystal Beach: disrupts decks that rely on DRE/Scramble/Boost/other to power their Pokemon faster. Although this may hurt your DREs on your Ambipom, the entire point of the deck is not to deal damage, although you COULD potentially 2HKO most Pokemon in the format (even the fat mother Blissey), even with the DRE reduction. Also depends on what decks are popular in your area if you want to run DRE.

    3x Cessation Crystal: stops all Pokemon Powers/Bodies on the entire field if attached to the Active. This card does not hurt you at all, but it will cripple your opponent if they do run abilities, and with the hand disruption, you may be lucky enough to get rid of their Windstorms. Can run 2 if feeling lucky or if Powers/Bodies not that popular in your area

    1x Strength Charm: since most Stage 1 Pokemon have 80-90 HP (like Lucario), this may force them to discard the two cards from their hand, or force a KO on them

    4x Energy Removal 2: slows their energy attachment down, which slows their setup down so you can slow it down more with hand disruption. Can also get rid of that one energy that stops Blissey from killing you

    1x Night Maintenance: brings back a combination of 3 Pokemon and/or basic energy to the deck. Use other Supporters and/or Trainers to bring back things from the deck in conjunction with Night Maintenance

    2x Warp Point: disrupts their setup by forcing by switching their Active with one of their Benched. Can be helpful for switching a major threat out, possible killing (or discarding) something with Ambipom


    Energy: 14

    4x Dark (special): powers up Absol and can boost its power to make Raid do a possible whopping 50 damage for one energy

    2x DRE: helps Ambipom able to attack turn 2, even though if they discard 2 cards to stop the damage, you still disrupt their hand. Even still with a DRE, you 2HKO Blissey :D

    2x Cyclone: forces opponent to switch if attached to your Active. Is helpful in disrupting starters and Absol can still use Baleful Wind with it.

    6x Dark (basic): no other energy to really use, and helps Absol use Raid


    Possible Techs:

    Mismagius: helps against fighting Pokemon match-up, since most fighting Pokemon are weak to psychic, and also with the resistance to colorless and its strong Psywave attack, this is a very good Blissey tech. Also its pre-evolution Misdreavus has Astonish, which shuffles a card from your opponent’s hand back into their deck

    Honchkrow: with its Dark Wing Flaps attack, it takes a card from your opponent’s hand and shuffles it back into their deck, a good hand disruptor, and also you can use its Poke-Body and attack with Murkrow, given that Honchkrow has enough energy to attack. Honchkrow LV X is debatable to use

    Lucario: a Stage 1 with 90 HP, this Pokemon is relatively easy to set up. With Aura Sphere, you start hurting their bench, which could potentially put them in OHKOing range with Ambipom, forcing them to lose a Pokemon or two cards from their hand. Also Blissey and Delcatty have weakness to Lucario, so it is worth a mention. However you will need fighting energy in your deck if you do not want to reduce its damage with DREs.

    Banette: This card when run in multiple copies, can do up to 80 damage if there is a Banette in your discard pile. Also it has resistance to colorless, which makes it a viable tech against Blissey. Its first attack is very questionable to use.

    Empoleon LV X: this tech, theoretically if it works, would reduce their hand size by an additional 2 cards slowing their setup down. But how are you going to get it out? That is the major issue here. You can experiment by removing Cessation Crystals, Energy Removal 2s, and other cards to make space for it, but IMO it will slow the deck down too much. Also you will need to remove more cards from your deck for water energy if you do not want to use DREs to attack


    *I have not play tested this deck yet since I do not have the cards to build it, but this is just all theoretical and I thought of this deck a while ago when Mysterious Treasures came out. Please comment on this deck and please provide match-ups, since I have not played with this deck. However I do give credit to theses two threads: http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62757 and http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62213, since I read these two topics before making my actual list.*
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2007
  2. Mew*

    Mew* Active Member

    The deck looks like a lot of fun! I see some issues with your trainer line. Here is one:
    I say you don't need this since you can refresh your hand with your Team Galactic's Wager when needed. How about a fourth Team Galacic's Mars? That fits in with your strategy better. I appreciate the in-depth strategy, that is how it should be done :clap:!
     
  3. vietgamer1021

    vietgamer1021 New Member

    haha thanx mew*

    i was thinking that 4 Mars may be a bit too much, since it only draws 2 cards, but i guess ill think about it now since i have new ideas ^^

    are there any other problems that you can point out?

    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    ha revised

    -3 Great Ball
    + 3 Dual Ball

    since then u can put absol in ur hand to raid for 40-50 if needed to
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  4. Mew*

    Mew* Active Member

    I just tested the deck against my own, and it seems to be a fairly even matchup. This deck's disruption is extreme! The Mars are very useful. Same goes for the Crystal Beach! The deck definitely works best with the Absol start. I may play this deck at my next tournament. Turn two Ambipom is excellent, except when they have cards that they can spare to discard. In my list I'll play Time-Space Distortion instead of Night Maintenance.

    How about teching a Sableye? That is a great card in this format! TSD or NM can bring it back. In fact, Sableye hurts this deck a lot! I also recommend a Strength Charm or two!
     
  5. vietgamer1021

    vietgamer1021 New Member

    so you think that the 4th mars over the copycat/rowan is worth it? if it is then ill change it

    ive noticed since not that many decks nowadays thrive on powers, the cesses could be replaced with strength charms

    but if so, wat would i take out for sableye?
     
  6. Mew*

    Mew* Active Member

    Well, the Quick Balls don't do much in a deck that doesn't run only one line. I recommend removing them. I'd remove 2x Oaks Visit OR Steven’s Advice. That leaves 5 open spots. Pokedex HANDY910is is an amazing card that is way underrated. I'd play four of them and that leaves a spot for Sableye Crystal Guardians. I see that you removed the Great Balls for Dual Balls. A good choice if you plan to use Raid. But I'd rather use Baleful Wind over that.
     
  7. vietgamer1021

    vietgamer1021 New Member

    hmmm im trying the sableye tech out

    although i think the rowan/copycat could be useful

    has anyone tried that out yet? since if u mulligan a lot then u can redo the opponents hand...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  8. yellowlob

    yellowlob New Member

    i think adding pluspower would be great to this deck.

    it can force an opponent either to lose a pokemon or discard cards more often =]
     
  9. vietgamer1021

    vietgamer1021 New Member

    wel wat could i possibly take out for plus powers then?
     
  10. yellowlob

    yellowlob New Member

    IMO, you dont need 4 celios.... all you have is absol and ambipom. cut that to 2 or 3 and then also IMO, you dont need 2 night maintenance....prolly just 1. then you can cut something else to if you want...


    but this is all just in my opinion
     
  11. Flareon

    Flareon New Member

    I feel like 4 Cess is a must. Opponents chances of TDing out of a bad situation are too high without 4, IMO. Maybe drop 2 dex since it is only a deck thinner anyway?
     
  12. vietgamer1021

    vietgamer1021 New Member

    i noticed that there arent that many decks that run cess, atleast in my area, only duskqueen catty runs it, but ill get set to attack their hand faster

    if anything at most id only put in 3 cesses
     
  13. TODDakaESTEBAN

    TODDakaESTEBAN New Member

    i just want to let everyone in on secret that wager's hurt you most of the time so using it as your'e only form of hand refreshment or extra draw kills, it comboes with the pokedex's but people forget that your opponent gets all new cards, sometimes you don't want your opponent to get new cards even if they end upp with less than before, ambi does rely on the the opponent havinvg a small hand but as far as the opponent is concerned it's quality not quantity,

    you also don't want to have to skip your supporter because all you have is wager and the opponent only has 1 or 2 cards

    2 is the right count but i would up the mars since you have pokedex to make up for inconsistant draw and the effect never hurts you

    i would add a roseanne's and replace the 2 dual balls with great balls, they are more consistant and roseanne's let's you use raid

    if you play buffers you're opponent windstorms leaving you a chance to lock beach in,

    since this deck's only chance is to disrupt your opponent to a stop, you should use battle frontier, catty gives you bad matchups, nidoqueen is another of those really easy to use cards that you will expect to see in early rounds, so is flygon d, so is nidoqueen d with flygon d
     
  14. Mew*

    Mew* Active Member

    I think the stadium choice is dependent on your local metagame. Where I live, Battle Frontier will do just about nothing. But, Crystal Beach could be very useful because of the Gallade decks running Scrambles and DRE, as well as the Blisseys running Boost. So far, I have never seen any Honchkrow, Nidoqueen, or Delcatty! Pretty weird?
     
  15. vietgamer1021

    vietgamer1021 New Member

    hmm

    id take out a celios, since i dun need 4 in there, but ill prolly put in a strength charm or a cess

    however, what do you guys think about removing the wager? i mean one coudlnt hurt bad, but in the event that they search for something (via castaway for example) then i could ruin it for them

    i need opinions and actual testing, since i dont have the cards to build this deck -.-
     
  16. InfernalLoko

    InfernalLoko New Member

    =o

    your deck is really good... you can dont change nothing :thumb:
     
  17. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    I think 2 cessation is too low.
    I also think pokedex is rather useless. 4 of them? That's 4 slots that could be quickballs or something. Maybe add some BFs/Buffers/CBs. An Umbreon* is a must in this deck.
     
  18. deckmaster

    deckmaster Active Member

    I played this deck at my league and only lost 2 games after like 14 games!
     
  19. vietgamer1021

    vietgamer1021 New Member

    if i were to put in umbreon*, then SSUs (super scoop ups) would be needed, and at the minimum 3...theres also the problem of getting one too XD

    as for the pokedex advice, i havent tried it yet, but my friends have, and its a alright "draw/search" card that doesnt take up a suporter space, but until i try it, i think that its good

    however...i am thinking about:

    -1 Celios
    -1 DRE

    +1 cess/crystal beach/battle frontier/buffer piece/castaway/strength charm/other
    +1 cess/crystal beach/battle frontier/buffer piece/castaway/strength charm/other

    sooooo...yeah ill need help picking filler cards XD

    any suggestions (pertaining to this and others)? it woudl be greatly appreciated if ic an get this up before my next cities in january :D
     
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