How long does it take the MTs to answer a rulings question?

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by ukpokemonpro, Oct 10, 2003.

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  1. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    I ask because it states on the ask the Master Trainers forum...

    But I asked for what I consider to be a pretty simple ruling to be made...

    This only applies to the US as the Marill printed in the UK/European English release has no misprint (yep they corrected it) and therefore we do not have access to the free retreat Marill .. to avoid an unfair advantage to US players in the future may I suggest that :

    1) Marill is played as per it's correct version.

    2) Marill with no retreat cost (the misprint) is banned from Tournament Play.


    This still seems a no brainer to me the card is only available in limited numbers inside the US and therefore should be banned from Tourney play... yet 6 days later still no ruling? Does this mean we should expect a delay of up to 2 weeks, a month, 2 months for a ruling to be made? I just wondered what the timescales were and is there a service standard we can rely on?

    And before you jump up and down on me yes I know the MTs are busy people ... but 6 days seems longer than ..several days that's more of a week ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2003
  2. )v(ajin_ipg21

    )v(ajin_ipg21 New Member

    IF they take too long coming here *which I believe the RULINGS MT is not in town nor in the country*

    You are welcome to TAKE it to them and email them.

    Quoth:
    Card Rulings: Rulings@pokemon-tcg.com
    *Again, we MUST abide BY YOUR TIMELINE, We all have lives *well to a degree ;) *
    Uh, this was answered EARLY on when Sandstrorm was released... still you ask? Take it to them...

    I disagree with your proposal. We have been accustomed to playing cards AS PRINTED. And this dichotomy of US and non-US? I guess, then again I wear much ROSIER eye-glasses than you do, I admit that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2003
  3. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    We envisioned the MTs coming on a regular basis to the forum to answer questions directly. That hasn't happened as yet. Probably due to their heavy workload getting everything set up for OP. We have been bringing the questions to them on a regular basis and getting the answers.

    As IP mentions, Jimmer is out of town right now so this weeks meeting was cancelled. We will bring it to him for an answer as soon as possible. I expect that answer to be "Play as Written", though. While it helps the card playability, I don't think anyone would propose that it "breaks" the card.
     
  4. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    No at the moment it doesn't break the card but it does encourage us to grey import so that the more playable mispints or the better correlation as in R&S is seen universally.. and no this is not another dichotomy; I think ambivalence maybe a better word here, of US and non-US?

    What it is, is what it says ... when would we expect an answer and I am puzzled at the MY TIMELINE put down used twice now... surely when people are worrying about league reporting and such like they too are guilty of dictating a timeline? Or are they just exploring the one laid down by PUI or in this case TC?

    Heaven forbid that a customer would dictate to a company! Tsk Tsk as we have seen in the UK it works so much better when they dictate to us...... >.<
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2003
  5. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Well, this isn't the first time a "play as written" has given one version of a card an advantage over another version of the same card (Base vs. Best Hitmonchan or Holo vs. Non-holo Dark Vileplume, anyone?). But "play as written" rulings that do that are reasonable, IMO, if it refers to HP, Weakness, Resistance, or Retreat Cost. If it refers to a Pokemon Power, attack, or other text, the ruling usually (though not always -- Expedition Darkness Energy vs. Genesis Darkness Energy, which was later fixed in a reprint, then changed in another one) favors the newer version. Again, this is reasonable. Why? Because a different HP, Weakness, Resistance, or Retreat Cost is a smaller difference. There is still a difference, don't get me wrong, but it is a smaller difference. Yes, it gives one version of a card an advantage over the other version. Yes, that makes things a little unequal. But it still makes sense.
     
  6. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    try it the other way around... with the International cards having advantageous misprints...
     
  7. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Hey, I want a 50 HP Vulpix. They're only available in UK packs. As a collector, should I be upset?
    Don't tell me it's not the same thing. As a player and collector, both have equal value to me.
     
  8. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    *Blushes* Didn't know that there was an example where the UK packs had an advantageous misprint.

    Maybe I can swap some for the free retreat Marills. (I'm hoping to use the free retreat Marills as prizes at the 5th SE Challenge in December: Only problem is that I haven't got any :( )

    Actually its not the existance of the misprint that bothers me. I'm all for misprints and collectability of cards being enhanced. While at Gencon both DMTM and MTM signed a couple of winner buzz cards as a parent over here had expressed the wish for such. I don't know who the parent is as they have chosen to remain anonymous but they are something different for the prize pool. Different is often good.

    However where different conveys an inequitable advantage then I'm not in favour of different. As an example I haven't seen anyone actually play with the 60HP Hitmonchan. For tournament play I don't want any player to have an unfair advantage. Its tricky to get this right but the free retreat Marill is an example which does trigger my 'unfair advantage' detector.

    Please not that we dont want to be different to the USA. We find that it is forced upon us to make the best of the lemons that we are thrown.
     
  9. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    Hey shouldn't they be LIMES?
     
  10. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    By the way, for clarity, both Vulpix versions play the same (50 HP vs HP 50). I was giving a collecting example.
     
  11. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    ah.. I was in TO HJ mode
     
  12. Michel

    Michel New Member

    Hitmonchan is a good example ... did you get it in the UK ??? :D

    Grey import for Marill ? Since when is that a problem ? :p
     
  13. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    Yeah thanks Hitmons already in distribution do you have any more?

    And as for marill well this time the UK distributors were quicker than grey importing I bought legally!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2003
  14. Water Pokemon Master

    Water Pokemon Master <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Your'e talking as a collector. UKPKMNPRO is talking about gameplay. It is unfair that we US players have the free retreat Marill when other countries don't. They should make it so that all Marills, retreat or no retreat, count as the retreating one in a ruling.
     
  15. soslowpoke

    soslowpoke New Member

    Well if you can take it to your own repsonsibilities to decide that your modified will include Best of Promos, why not make a ruling with Marill while you're on a roll?

    I don't see the big fuss. With Hitmonchan it was a play-as-written ruling. So naturally everyone used their old Base Set ones.

    I guess I'm saying that that ruling was as unfair to the newer players who've never seen a base set booster in their life as it is to the UK not getting their error Marills in the mix of their boosters
     
  16. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    remember according to PUI there are NO LEAGUES or OP OUTSIDE THE USA.

    We don't want to be different. Different is forced upon us.

    Also I have yet to see a player play with the 60HP buzz in a tournament. But the free retreat Marill would get played.


    Q) You are organising a competition. Do you strive to ensure that play is fair. Or leave an obvious advantage to a select few in place?
     
  17. Marcello-Milord

    Marcello-Milord New Member

    Wizards made many errors with weaknesses, resistances...They always made an errata (except for Chan's HP, which is obiouvsly NOT an error), like it waa for Blaine's Charizard's Fighting/Fire symbol.
    Now, or the Marill are not an error (but so the english european release should have them, which is not), or they are effectively an error on the first print runs, and then PUI should make an errata on those cards.
    That's it.
     
  18. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Exactly Marcello. As far as I can tell the Maril WAS corrected for the international print runs...

    speaks volumes that PUI corrected it. PUI obviously considered that it needed correcting so why not make the ruling consistant with the correction?
     
  19. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    WotC admitted that was an error.
    When asked about it in the chat, the response was "They didn't fix that before releasing them? I thought they did!", or something close to that.

    One difference with the no retreat Marril and the retreat Marril is that both were being printed in the initial print run.
    So, it's not so much that they "fixed" it as they just stopped printing the wrong one.
    We always were complaining to WotC that they never fixed errors in later print runs. Now we complain to PUI that they do. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Marcello-Milord

    Marcello-Milord New Member

    'Pop we're not complaining about the error fix, it's a good thing :)
    We're complaining about an errata that they should do.

    The promo Marill (always this blue guy) without Water energy symbol in the attack made that attack a non-sense. And in the other languages the error was fixed, but they always told that a Water symbol missed.

    Now, it's obvious that players uses Base set Hitmonchan instead of the Best one... but have we to ear PUI's voice about playing that in Unlimited?

    So it's for the marill's missing retreat.
    They shoud write on their website that in some cards the retreat cost is missing. Play the cards as it was originally intended, i.e. with its retreat cost.
    It's not so difficult, they wan to make their website a MUST for each and every player, only on the website there are official says about everything. Is it so difficult to have an errata for their cards, as Wizards did?
     
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