I Double Theme Decks: Improving Through Double-Decking

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by MegaVelocibot, May 3, 2011.

  1. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Bulbapedia is actually where I got my lists. It just took them a while to do so.
     
  2. EricDent

    EricDent New Member

    Where on Bulbapedia?
    Looked under theme decks & they only go to X/Y.
     
  3. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

  4. EricDent

    EricDent New Member

    Thanks, I found them eventually.
    I bought one of each as well.

    Would assume the Fire side of the other deck is the best bet for that deck.
    Especially Rapidash (Run Over & Over again)...
     
  5. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Finally finished the doubled-Trainer Kit. Delays caused by my dissatisfaction with the Trainers included, as well as my attempts to work around the limited draw-power the deck brings to the table.

    Pokémon: 23
    4 Furfrou
    3 Sylveon
    4 Eevee
    3 Granbull
    4 Snubbull
    2 Gourgeist
    3 Pumpkaboo

    Trainers: 20
    4 Potion
    4 Poké Ball
    4 Pokémon Catcher
    4 Professor's Letter
    4 Switch

    Energy: 17
    11 Fairy Energy
    6 Psychic Energy

    Strategy: Furfrou has the most HP of any Basic Pokémon available to work with, doing more damage than most Basic Pokémon in this deck can manage with the added chance to stall with its first attack. Sylveon surprisingly finds itself overlapping in roles with Arbok. Both do similar amounts of damage, though Sylveon inflicts Confusion on the Defending Pokémon while Arbok disables its Ability, if any. Arbok inflicts the Poisoned condition with its second attack, while Sylveon simply does 10 more damage. Arbok fits in with a consistently Psychic-type deck, while Sylveon works better with higher Fairy density. Granbull does a fair amount of damage for the possible choices from these decks, in addition to having more HP than most of the other Pokémon. Gourgeist is used for its first attack, Eerie Voice, which has the potential to add 120 damage to your opponent's side of the field for one Energy card. Granted, this is spread amongst your opponent's Pokémon, but one can't be too choosy as to where it ends up given the contents of this deck.
     
  6. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    As a heads-up, this thread will be undergoing some maintenance over the next few weeks, bringing things around to being compliant with the new Standard format of BCR-on.
     
  7. EricDent

    EricDent New Member

    So I would guess you are working on the new starters from Furious Fists?
     
  8. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    A good guess. I'm still a bit more busy with bringing up-to-date BCR-on decks and strategies up to speed, but after that, the Furious Fists double-decks will be prepared.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  9. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Corkscrew Clobber (Double-Dark Hammer Deck)
    Pokémon: 18
    4 Pangoro
    4 Pancham
    4 Scraggy
    4 Scrafty
    2 Landorus

    Trainers: 24
    4 Korrina
    4 Energy Switch
    2 Evosoda
    2 Pokémon Center Lady
    4 Professor's Letter
    4 Professor Sycamore
    4 Roller Skates

    Energy: 18
    14 Darkness Energy
    4 Fighting Energy

    Strategy: This Darkness-focused take on the Dark Hammer theme deck focuses on Scrafty and Pancham's ability to evolve more quickly with Darkness Pokémon in play. Landorus can help prepare Scrafty's second attack more quickly, allowing you to have a quick “revenge” attacker in case one of your Pokémon is Knocked Out. Just mind the low Basic Pokémon count. Something to help switch Scrafty after it becomes Confused (such as Switch, Float Stone, Escape Rope, or the more expensive option, Darkrai-EX), prevent it from becoming Confused (Sparkling Robe), or something to try to rig the coin flips in your favor (Victini with Victory Star) could be helpful in this deck for further modifications.

    ________________

    Shouting Kicks (Double-Dark Hammer Deck)
    Pokémon: 20
    4 Machop
    4 Machoke
    2 Machamp
    4 Mienfoo
    4 Mienshao
    2 Landorus

    Trainers: 24
    4 Korrina
    4 Energy Switch
    2 Evosoda
    2 Pokémon Center Lady
    4 Professor's Letter
    4 Professor Sycamore
    4 Roller Skates

    Energy: 16
    4 Darkness Energy
    12 Fighting Energy

    Strategy: This has been the first time in a while where I wish there was more of a secondary type of Energy in a theme deck. Replacing the Darkness Energy with more Fighting Energy shouldn't be too hard. (If you can get access to them, you might even want to make them Strong Energy.) Mienshao's first attack, combined with two Machamp, doubles the base damage from 40 to 80. In fact, this deck is all about getting Machamp out to boost your other attacks' base damage. The strong Trainer selection available should help you to accomplish this task. If the Basic Pokémon count is too low for your liking, and you want to do some damage to your opponent's Benched Pokémon, consider adding Hitmonlee to your deck.

    ________________

    Aromatherapy (Double-Enchanted Echo Deck)
    Pokémon: 24
    2 Sylveon
    2 Leafeon
    4 Eevee
    3 Bellsprout
    3 Weepinbell
    2 Victreebel
    3 Shelmet
    3 Accelgor
    2 Tornadus

    Trainers: 20
    4 Battle Reporter
    4 Potion
    4 Energy Switch
    4 Professor's Letter
    4 Roller Skates

    Energy: 16
    13 Grass Energy
    3 Fairy Energy

    Strategy: This version of the Enchanted Echo double-deck focuses primarily on the Grass Pokémon found within. Victreebel is intended to remain a Bench-sitter for its Ability, but can justifiably be used as an attacker if you can attach Energy (or Energy Switch) quickly enough to it. Leafeon and Tornadus are intended to be the primary attackers, with Accelgor providing support. Note, however, that the overall stalling aspect of this self-healing deck may simply just allow your opponent to have even more time to set up their deck. For this reason, Sylveon remains a part of this deck, to try to disrupt your opponent's Energy attachments (if they attach any to the active). If you find this to not be helpful, you may remove both Sylveon, one Eevee, and the three Fairy Energy to add four Grass Energy, a fourth Shelmet and Accelgor. We keep three to improve the chances of getting a Leafeon out, but you can take one more Eevee out and add another Grass Energy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  10. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    I'm caught up on the backlog of theme decks to finish, so a few announcements are in order.

    The original post has been updated with working links, and revised BCR-on versions of older Double Theme Decks is in progress. This will likely cover theme decks that were released as part of BCR or later, but may extend to older theme decks if sufficient portions of it have been reprinted. I'm planning on going through these in order of most recent to least recent set.

    I'd also like to take a few moments to reflect upon this thread. About three and a half years ago, I started this thread in the spirit of helping out new players. Were it not for the "I Play Theme Decks" forum contests of the past, this thread would have likely never existed. From then to now, this thread has been viewed over thirty thousand times, making it one of the most viewed threads in this subforum. Even if I were to assume that many were people coming back to the thread to look at it once more, that would still mean quite a few people have hopefully found these decks to be a solid step to starting out the Trading Card Game with limited resources. So... if you're reading this, thanks. It's good to know that someone's finding this helpful.
     
  11. GamerRay

    GamerRay New Member

    This is such an understatement! I hadn't played this game since the 2nd or 3rd set, and a few months back my daughter and I started playing it together. She immediately noticed how inconsistent the decks were, but she still wanted to keep her decks as they were. This thread has been immensely helpful in letting us keep the same decks we've been playing, but tripling the amount of fun we have while doing so. So thank you for all the work you've put in to this thread, and I hope you don't stop helping people like me who aren't interested in competitive play and are horrendous at deck building!
     
  12. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Got the deck lists for Phantom Forces, so double-decks and their strategies should be done by a week from now. Sooner, hopefully! That, along with single-purchase and double-purchase versions of the Xerneas and Yveltal decks.
     
  13. EddieFreak

    EddieFreak New Member

    I wanted to thank you for all you have done over the years. A few years back my son went to league for the first time. I made him a deck prior to going and he was trounced (lost every game). I was surprised he wanted to go back. I found your thread and PM'd you asking for your help. You suggested trying Voltage Vortex + Furious Knights. So back we went with his new deck. He went undefeated that day (6-0).

    Fast forward to the present... My son won VA States (Juniors) this past season.

    If it wasn't for your help and this thread he would have been discouraged long ago and would have missed out on many adventures and new friends.

    So a big THANK YOU!
     
  14. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Quite welcome! I tell you, the wings of a butterfly are some powerful things. I still have the initial request message and follow-up replies in my Inbox. Surprises me to see that was sent all the way back in March of 2012. Doesn't feel that long ago... Still, major congratulations to your son! I'm just glad that I could make that contribution, to improve the lives of others. (Well, other than the lives of those that he defeated in order for him to win.) :tongue: That, and of course, we can't forget the help and encouragement you gave your son, which I remembered upon re-reading your messages.

    Oddly, this is a rather thematically appropriate comment to come up. In addition to a Double Theme Deck for a single Battle Arena Deck box set and a double Battle Arena Deck box set, I will also be offering my first cross-product Theme Deck Mash-Up in a long time, not having happened since ... well, since that one. (Almost gave Ice Shock and Solar Strike a chance, but ultimately decided against it.) A Mash-Up will be available for Resilient Life and the Xerneas deck from the BAD, as well as Destruction Rush and the Yveltal deck from the BAD.
     
  15. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Been a busy few weeks! More decks to come, but for now, let's start off with one I've been tinkering around with.

    In a Mirror Darkly (Double Yveltal BA-Deck)
    Pokémon: 16
    4 Yveltal (XY 78)
    4 Zorua
    4 Zoroark
    2 Scraggy
    2 Scrafty

    Trainers: 30
    4 Professor Sycamore
    4 Shauna
    2 Trevor
    2 Pokémon Fan Club
    2 Lysandre
    2 Energy Retrieval
    2 Professor's Letter
    2 Switch
    4 Ultra Ball
    4 Muscle Band
    2 Magnetic Storm

    Energy: 14
    12 Darkness Energy (Foil)
    2 Darkness Energy

    Strategy: While hurt by the absence of Yveltal-EX, Shadow Circle and Double Colorless Energy, (XY) Yveltal is still capable of helping to power up other Yveltal and Zoroark in a hurry. Zoroark... well, I'll be honest. I wish it was the Legendary Treasures version. I'd even take the Black/White Foul Play version as a reprint. As it stands, one Darkness for 30 and preventing retreat won't win you battles, and Night Claw really wishes it had Double Colorless Energy to go with a Darkness Energy attached by Yveltal. At least Trick Coin reduces your odds of having to discard Energy.

    For a bit more oomph, consider more Scrafty and less Zoroark. Machine Gun Headbutt takes only one Energy attachment on top of an Oblivion Wing, but comes with its share of flips. Without Trick Coin, on average, you get 75 damage out of two Darkness Energy. With Trick Coin... things get complicated. Working on the assumption you reflip if you get less than two heads, your average damage comes out to around...
    * 93.5 (12.5% x 150, 37.5% x 100, and the remaining 50% being broken down into a 1:3:3:1 ratio of 0/50/100/150 damage) if you're willing to take a higher risk of doing 0 damage, or...
    * 84.375 damage with a 1/16 chance of doing 0 damage (reflip only on three tails, where doing 0 damage again would take 6 tails in a row).
    You still want to retreat out of this, to get out of Confusion damage counters, and a Darkrai-EX (even just one in the deck) can take you real far with accomplishing this, if you can get your hands on one.

    _________________________
    Added on 12/28/14:

    Floating Fairies (Double Xerneas BA-Deck)
    Pokémon: 13
    4 Xerneas
    4 Carbink
    3 Spritzee
    2 Aromatisse

    Trainers: 32
    4 Professor Sycamore
    4 Tierno
    2 Trevor
    2 Pokémon Fan Club
    2 Pokémon Center Lady
    2 Lysandre
    2 Energy Retrieval
    2 Evosoda
    2 Professor's Letter
    4 Ultra Ball
    4 Hard Charm
    2 Fairy Garden

    Energy: 15
    12 Fairy Energy (Foil)
    3 Fairy Energy

    Strategy: This functions as most decks with Xerneas and Aromatisse do. Xerneas's first attack accelerates the flow of basic Fairy Energy into play, while Aromatisse's Ability directs said Energy to the Pokémon that need it the most. Carbink functions as a secondary attacker, though it has significantly lower amounts of HP than Xerneas does. Sylveon can be considered for that position of secondary attacker if you feel the disruption of its first attack and extra 20 HP outweigh the lower damage potential of its second attack and need for Evolution to enter play, in comparison to those traits of Carbink.

    Were EXP Share (back) in the format, I would suggest it as an additional Pokémon Tool to consider adding to this deck. Until the Japanese set in which it is reprinted comes out, this is advice that will have to be waited on. Though there are certain ways to restore Energy from the discard pile in this deck (Energy Retrieval), they do not keep the Energy attached to Pokémon in play. The best you can manage with these cards is to use Hard Charm and Pokémon Center Lady to keep your higher HP Pokémon around and in the battle. [EDIT, February 1, 2015: once Primal Clash is tournament-legal, if you play by these rules, this will become a valid option and suggestion.]

    The Trainers provided are definitely solid. Four Professor Sycamore and Tierno can help you power through the deck, and most of the other things available are usable as soon as they enter your hand, allowing you to prepare for the next Professor Sycamore. The Pokémon Fan Club help with the lowered Basic Pokémon count, but you may feel like you need to acquire and add more. More Evosoda can be added if you feel that you need it to get Aromatisse into play sooner, but will be dead weight once there are no more Evolution cards left in the deck. More Fairy Garden are available for you to work with, helping you win Stadium wars with your opponent if you choose to add them as well as helping to maintain a zero Retreat Cost for your Pokémon.

    _________________________

    Destructive Interference (Battle Arena Hybrid)
    Pokémon: 18
    2 Xerneas
    2 Xerneas (Promo)
    2 Spritzee
    1 Aromatisse
    3 Jigglypuff
    2 Wigglytuff
    2 Carbink
    2 Yveltal
    2 Yveltal (Promo)

    Trainers: 28
    4 Professor Sycamore
    2 Pokémon Fan Club
    2 Shauna
    2 Tierno
    2 Lysandre
    2 Energy Retrieval
    2 Evosoda
    2 Professor's Letter
    4 Ultra Ball
    2 Hard Charm
    2 Muscle Band
    2 Fairy Garden

    Energy: 14
    6 Fairy Energy (Foil)
    3 Fairy Energy
    5 Darkness Energy (Foil)

    Strategy: Oof. Without the traditional double-deck, the thin Evolution lines hurt this set-up. What it lacks in Pokémon that work together well, it makes up for with an array of useful Trainers. While I hate to say "take the Trainers from this and add them to more useful Pokémon", that's really the best advice I'd offer. If, however, you are restricted to the Pokémon from this deck, I would say that the Pokémon that most benefit from the Legendary presences are Aromatisse (for its Ability), Wigglytuff (for added Energy acceleration), and Carbink as an additional attacker. The focus shifts primarily to Fairy-types, and could even run the 2-2 Sylveon line without Yveltal (with a replacement of Darkness Energy with Fairy Energy).
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
  16. joemie

    joemie New Member

    Great guide! thanks.
     
  17. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    EDIT: Burning Winds and Bolt Twister are finally here. Took me long enough. These theme decks, unfortunately, are inferior in comparison to most of the others I have worked with, and trying to make any suggestions on the cards contained within has been difficult, at best.

    Gust of Wildfire (Double-Burning Winds)
    Pokémon: 21
    4 Talonflame
    4 Fletchinder
    4 Fletchling
    2 Pyroar
    3 Litleo
    4 Chansey

    Trainers: 24
    2 Evosoda
    2 Potion
    2 Pokémon Center Lady
    2 Pokémon Fan Club
    4 Professor's Letter
    2 Professor Sycamore
    2 Roller Skates
    2 Shauna
    2 Tierno
    2 Trick Coin
    2 Ultra Ball

    Energy: 15
    15 Fire Energy

    Strategy: If you must attack with Talonflame, make liberal use of Trick Coin and its first attack, ignoring its second attack in all situations that will not win you a game (or in once where you don't mind losing the minimum of six cards it took to set up Talonflame: the Pokémon and its Energy). Pyroar can be used with Talonflame to pull active any Pokémon that might not be able to attack or retreat after Talonflame uses its second attack, but if Talonflame does Knock Out a Pokémon, your opponent may send out a new Active Pokémon capable of revenge-KOing your Talonflame, weakened by the effect of its second attack. Chansey provides a wall to hide behind while preparing your other Pokémon for attacking.

    Room for Improvement: Blacksmith provides much-needed Energy acceleration for this deck. A higher count of Ultra Ball to discard the Fire Energy would work well with Blacksmith, as the combo typically has done in the past.

    _________________________

    Race the Sun (Double-Bolt Twister)
    Pokémon: 22
    4 Galvantula
    4 Joltik
    2 Heliolisk
    4 Helioptile
    4 Fearow
    4 Spearow

    Trainers: 24
    2 Evosoda
    2 Potion
    2 Pokémon Center Lady
    2 Pokémon Fan Club
    4 Professor's Letter
    2 Professor Sycamore
    2 Roller Skates
    2 Shauna
    2 Tierno
    2 Trick Coin
    2 Ultra Ball

    Energy: 14
    14 Lightning Energy

    Strategy: I can't offer a good Water-focused build of this deck because Kingler and Jellicent offer such poor attempts of secondary attackers for Feraligatr that I can't, in good conscience, come up with a deck list that uses either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
  18. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Primal Clash double-decks up and ready to go!

    Helium and Hurt'Em (Double-Ocean's Core)
    Pokémon: 21
    4 Kyogre
    2 Walrein
    2 Sealeo
    3 Spheal
    2 Whiscash
    3 Barboach
    2 Milotic
    3 Feebas

    Trainers: 24
    4 Acro Bike
    2 Evosoda
    2 Fresh Water Set
    4 Professor's Letter
    2 Professor Birch's Observations
    2 Rough Seas
    2 Switch
    2 Teammates
    4 Tierno

    Energy: 15
    15 Water Energy

    Strategy: (coming soon)

    Room for Improvement: (coming soon)

    (Also, yes, that was an awful alpha-related pun: the nucleus of a helium atom is also known in radioactive decay as an "alpha particle".)

    _________________________

    Rocks Fall... (Double-Earth's Pulse)
    Pokémon: 21
    2 Rhyperior
    4 Rhydon
    4 Rhyhorn
    2 Medicham
    3 Meditite
    3 Linoone
    3 Zigzagoon

    Trainers: 24
    2 Acro Bike
    2 Evosoda
    2 Fresh Water Set
    2 Pokemon Center Lady
    2 Pokemon Fan Club
    4 Professor's Letter
    2 Professor Birch's Observations
    2 Scorched Earth
    2 Teammates
    4 Tierno

    Energy: 15
    15 Fighting Energy

    Strategy: Yes, that's right. I took Groudon out of this double-deck. Neither attack on the card seems helpful, and the only use I could think for it to serve was for something to hide behind. The Retreat Cost is unmanageable, especially with no Switch-like cards in the deck. So, the main attackers of this deck are all centered around Evolutions this time around.

    Rhyperior's inclusion in this deck is to primarily spread damage with its very flippy first attack while healing the high-HP Pokémon. Linoone can use either of its attacks with two Energy to further target Benched Pokémon or to chance doing more damage to the Active Pokémon. Medicham's ability to attack twice allows for options to focus on "walling" (healing twice with Calm Mind), attacking the Defending Pokémon with Yoga Kick twice, or a middle ground of each attack once.

    Room for Improvement: Inclusions to improve the luck aspects of Rhyperior and Linoone include the Victini with an Ability (NVI 14 or 98, Promo BW32, LTR 23) or Trick Coin. Fighting-type attackers may benefit from some type-focused cards from Furious Fists, such as Fighting Stadium, Korrina, or Strong Energy.

    (The name of this deck is a reference to a cliche of tabletop gaming, in which an uncreative storyteller [or "game master"] simply tells his players, who are not following the "railroad" narrative set out before them and had chosen to explore a cave, that "rocks fall, everyone dies" as a way to force his will over those of his supposed friends.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
  19. Dracul Kuro Hemming

    Dracul Kuro Hemming New Member

    I love the idea of this. I may actually want to try doing something like this with the new Primal Clash decks that come out. Nothing to fancy, obviously. Though it could help me not feel bad when we have new League Members who are just joining the game learning the rules and everything. (A couple leagues ago, I played a kid who was just learning the basics that joined and I played Bats since it was either that or Donphan).
     
  20. MegaVelocibot

    MegaVelocibot <a href="http://pokegym.net/gallery/browseimages.p

    Double-Decks delayed but not forgotten, first off is the XY Trainer Kit: Latias & Latios. Amusingly, almost all of the useful cards come from the Latias side of this double-deck.

    Pokémon: 32
    4 Latias
    4 Latios
    4 Tangrowth
    4 Tangela
    4 Grovyle
    4 Treecko
    4 Delcatty
    4 Skitty

    Trainers: 8
    4 Potion
    4 Acro Bike

    Energy: 20
    10 Psychic
    10 Grass

    Strategy: As a warning, this deck suffers from a severe lack of Trainers and overpopulation of Pokémon, but it's doing the best we can with what we have. Latias is recommended over Latios; their first attacks average out to 20 damage per turn, but without Double Colorless Energy, there is no advantage of using two turns to power up Latios when one will do for Latias. You may even want to replace Latios with more Energy cards, until you are able to get your hands on some Supporter cards that help you draw more cards per turn.

    Delcatty's Play Rough attack is one of the more Energy-efficient attackers, coming in at an average of 45 damage per turn for only two Energy. Tangrowth can be something bigger that you try to build up to, but its attacks are costly without Double Colorless Energy or any Energy acceleration (attacks or other effects that add Energy to your Pokémon in play). Grovyle's Agility can be used to help to stall for time, if you can get the Energy needed onto it to use its attack, Pound working to chip away at things in the meantime.

    Feel free to put Solrock in for its first attack if you acquire any relevant Special Energy cards to search out with its first attack.
     

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