I got da munchies, man...

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Prime, Jul 25, 2008.

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  1. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I love the thread title. Haha.

    4 Munchlax DP
    4 Larvitar ?
    2 Pupitar ?
    4 Tyranitar IFDS
    2 Claydol GE
    2 Baltoy GE
    TOTAL: 18 (10 basics, 4 stage 1's, 4 stage 2's)

    //Comments: Pretty basic setup. Munchlax is there to discard dark early on. Tyranitar pulls it out of discard with body. Claydol makes the deck run.

    4 Call Energy
    4 Special Dark
    10 Basic Dark
    TOTAL: 18

    //Comments: The energy needs work. I might reduce the sp. dark so that Tyranitar has more energy to bring back from the discard.

    4 Roseanne's Research
    4 Bebe's Search
    2 Luxury Ball
    3 Team Galactic's Wager
    3 Felicity's Drawing
    4 Rare Candy
    2 Warp Point
    2 Night Maintenance
    TOTAL: 24

    I usually don't like to post ideas on cards I don't have yet, but I wanted to get this idea out to the community. I've really been thinking about the most effective ways to discard dark energy for Tyranitar's body, and I think Munchlax could be an interesting way of doing it. Either way, the deck also runs Felcity's Drawing, just incase I need to discard energy and I don't have a munchlax out. And if I don't have anything I want to discard with Munchlax, hopefully I can start with him and Call Energy and just grab basics.
     
  2. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    50 views and no replies? You guys are harsh. I forgot the spoiler for the Tyranitar. My fault. Here it is.

    Tyranitar LV.61 – Darkness – HP140
    Stage 2 – Evolves from Pupitar Poke-Body: Dark Fighting Spirit
    Whenever one of your opponent’s Pokemon uses a Poke-Power, after the effect resolves, search your discard pile for 1 Basic Darkness Energy card and attach it to this Pokemon.
    [C][C] Grind: Does 20 damage x the number of Energy attached to Tyranitar.
    [D][D][D][D][D] Spinning Tail: Does 30 damage to each of your opponent’s Pokemon.
    Weakness: Fighting (+30)
    Resistance: Psychic (-20)
    Retreat: 4
     
  3. Dr. Mason

    Dr. Mason New Member

    If I was playing against Tyranitar, I'd avoid using powers too often. I also have a tendency to play Shuckle tech ;).

    Munchlax is an idea, but I think he needs more immediate acceleration in the form of Weavile.
     
  4. PokemansForGeeks

    PokemansForGeeks New Member

    Even with his body, getting 5 Darks on him to only do 30 damage around the board is kind of steep. 140 HP is great but not when it takes you 3-4 turns to set him up. I can't really think of any fixes but good luck with it.
     
  5. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    The Supes: Shuckle tech? XP Avoid using powers? Yeah, that is a good tactic, if you can afford to. I guess it works like Aerodactyl MD, with the opponent controlling when it activates.

    I could always try Tyranitar/Ampharos. You use powers, my tyranitars power up. You use supporters instead, and all your pokemon take damage. 2 stage 2's might be hard to work though. HAHA...Tyranitar/Ampharos anyone? Rock-lock? Haha.

    I don't like Weavile with it. You have a tendancy to sit there and waste turns just grabbing energy. I'd rather go for the quickest Tyranitar I can.

    PokemonsForGeeks: 5 dark to do 30 to everything is steep. It'd be so much easier to pay if Scramble Energy was still around.

    Thanks for the comments.
     
  6. Blaziken 1111

    Blaziken 1111 Active Member

    I would play moonlight stadium because agaisnt decks that can't spread and can't take out T-tar in one shot you just retreat and save the tank for a later turn. I would also play a 1-1 or 2-2 darkrai lv.x line. Doing 30 for each energy attached to T-tar and then 80 to active and 30 to all of the bench. If you can find the room it's really worth it. And then you can take out all of the special darks. A 1-0-1 ampharos tech might work.
     
  7. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Maybe Tyranitar/Bronzong? Pull off a single 30 to everything, then hide behind Bronzong while it adds up damage on everything else.
     
  8. RJG00

    RJG00 New Member

    hey prime i know you like the muchlax and all but maybe a lunasol 2-2 would be a better thing instead of munchlax that is just my 2 cents worth and moonlight would be good to like Blaziken 1111 said good luck with the deck
     
  9. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    yeah, I thought about Lunatone/solrock, but that takes up bench space, and I feel dusknoir DP will be played more than ever next format.

    I thought about moonlight stadium, but with no way to search for stadiums next format, I am less interested in running "tech" stadiums.
     
  10. RJG00

    RJG00 New Member

    well then if you can find a way to play moonlight it would be nice just like u said in a earlier post play t-tar and zong that seems fun y not just play 1 more felicity also that might help. maybe not play lunasol just luna or what ever one discards. o0o yea i read your blog its very well done i agree with alot of your points
     
  11. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Oh! If I am using the MD Bronzong, I could also use the MT Bronzong to discard energy and draw cards. Wow! Good idea, me.

    Let's say I drop the Munchlax, and switch out the Pokemon lines like such:

    2 Bronzong MT
    2 Bronzong MD
    3 Bronzor MD (C: auto sleep)
    3 Tyranitar IFDS
    2 Pupitar MT (CC: 10 to each opponent's Pokemon. Sweet!)
    3 Larvitar IFDS (colorless attack - don't want to run fighting energy in here)
    2 Claydol GE
    2 Baltoy GE

    Claydol, because it's broken. Tyranitar is still the main attacker, but with some help from bronzong MD, 4 isn't needed. 3 bronzor because you don't want to start with it (could easily see 4 debatible).

    Neat.
     
  12. Papi/Manny

    Papi/Manny New Member

    I would play a rotom/lunatone engine in t-tar. Get as many energy in the discard with felciites and lunatone, using claydol to an even greater extent because of that, then power up t-tar as fast as possible. Also, 1-0-1 omastar seems inline for the deck.
     
  13. butlerforhire

    butlerforhire New Member

    I could see adding a tech Alakazam line in here (1-0-1 or something), because it gives you a chance to discard 2 Dark energy on THEIR turn and it actually stops their Powers while still letting Tyranitar grab the energy afterward. I'm pretty sure the order of operations would allow that, anyway. I know that it seems they would avoid even using their Powers at all with both Power Cancel and Tyranitar's Body to worry about, but then that's just good deterrence and disruption for you, so either way you'd be doing something beneficial to you. I think Spiritomb from Legends Awakened would be a great tech here as well. It can get you KOs from its Power on 130 HP stuff that has been hit 4 times from Tyranitar, and then you still get a chance to attack after that.

    Also, I think that Weavile IS a good option for this deck for a couple reasons. One, it is guaranteed to get two dark energy on Tyranitar no matter what, since it's an energyless attack and the cards are coming from your deck, not your hand, and it also does not rely on your opponent using Powers. Two, I think that a lot of decks are going to choose to hold off on excessively using stuff like Cosmic Power when they see Tyranitar, and since it takes 5 energy to even use its main attack and there are no DREs/Scrambles/Holon's Castforms around, that's five turns for them to set up and get comfortable with Supporters, Call energy, etc.. With Weavile as an option, you don't allow them that luxury. Also, if your opponent is choosing to keep Tyranitar's Body at bay, there is no "quick" Tyranitar (again, 5 turns, unless you wanted to run Rotom or something although it would be more complicated than Weavile), although with Weavile there always will be that quickness, at least relatively speaking. I think Felicity's is enough discard power anyway.


    Energy Link plus Moonlight Stadium is also pretty amazing, allowing you to swarm Tyranitar and move the energy back and forth from damaged to healthy. That combo is sick enough to warrant some serious consideration, and even a fundamental shift in the way you run the deck. Super Scoop Up could easily be added to the mix, for example, if you went that route. PokeBlower is another card (as long as you play 4) that would allow you to get something like Claydol or some other bench sitter with a 2 or 3 retreat out at which point you'd be able to spread for several turns in a row without even being hit. Warping would just let you bring up a Weavile/Munchlaw/whatever if they even had it in hand to use, preserving Tyranitar, and in the absence of double energies, something like Claydol will have to be retreated in two turns with two manual energy attachments, and that's a pretty big set back.

    L to the ol... tongue to the cheek... maybe this lengthy post will make up for the disappointment of seeing 50 views earlier with no corresponding replies.
     
  14. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    butlerforhire: The Alakazam idea is pretty brilliant. Stop their powers AND discard energy for Tyranitar's body to activate.

    I thought about Energy Link, but again, tech tools/stadiums with no way to search doesn't seem reliable. You'd have to run 3 Energy Link to be effective since if 1 of them is prized, it's a useless card.

    My problem with Weavile is the whole idea that I'm sitting there, doing nothing to the opponent for 2-3 turns, allowing them to setup without any problems. The best I could do would be to wager them, but not mounting an offense with the wager doesn't hurt the opponent that much.

    I have my doubts that the opponent can afford to not use their powers. Every competitive deck at the league I go to plays Claydol. Those decks need Claydol to setup and stay at the same pace as the other player that is playing Claydol. If I wager you down to 3 cards, you will use your Claydol next turn to refill your hand, even if it gives my tyranitars an extra energy.

    Good posts people!
     
  15. butlerforhire

    butlerforhire New Member

    Well, being unable to search out tools or stadiums with the loss of Castaway/Scott is unfortunate and it does make it harder to utilize them in combos but that's why I said that if you did choose to go that route, you'd have to reconfigure the deck a lot to maximize odds of drawing into them. The loss of Windstorm also makes it easier for these cards to stick when you do draw into them, which is a plus. I think it would be worth at least experimenting with, because even just two Tyranitars, each Energy Linked, with a Moonlight in play and 5 Dark, would last a long time, and if you manage three or four, I'd say you pretty much have the game in the bag no matter what your opponent pulls out. Super Scoop Up would just seal the deal even more, allowing you to keep fresh, fully powered Tyranitars coming at your opponent for a lot longer than you naturally would be able to. If you went this route, you could also focus on just getting 7 total Dark energy into play to pass off between the Tyranitars so that you could deal 140 to anything via its first attack and go for a series of OHKOs. Sometimes that is more valuable than spread, even if it is big spread.

    One of the unfortunate things about Munchlax is its two retreat. If you're against something that thrives on sniping like Empoleon (which I figure will still be big next format), they can just go for your bench, setting up later KOs on your Tyranitar (s), also forcing you to waste an energy on it to retreat eventually, and cards like Pokeblower will hurt it if it is on your bench late game against these sort of sniping decks (some of which I imagine will play 4 Pokeblower to punish all high-retreat bench sitters). Weavile has no retreat cost. Also, like I said, I would prefer knowing that even if my hand was energyless, I could still set up my Tyranitar guaranteed, as opposed to the Munchlax needing 3 energy(2 to discard and 1 to attach) for optimal results, as well as the reliance on your opponent's Powers. Not being stuck in the active position either is a plus. I know how important Claydol is but it doesn't have to be used every turn, and without the benefit of Tyranitar's Body, virtually everything else out there is faster than it is. I think in the end you'll still be using the same amount of turns to get Tyranitar powered up, if not less, although you have the advantages of Weavile's free retreat, energyless requirement, searching ability, deck thinning, and double attachment without Munchlax's drawbacks. Basically it just seems more reliable, more guaranteed. With Felicity's (which I would max, by the way), you still are able to do what Munchlax does provided you have the energy in hand, which you would have had to with Munchlax anyway. There's also Alakazam if you do add it for the discard. I'd also say that taking a couple turns charging up a Tyranitar that is going to wreak havoc once it gets active is not really the same as "doing nothing."
     
  16. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    You make some really good points butlerforhire. Thanks for posting in this thread.

    Yeah, I totally see the munchlax retreat problem. I think it was a cute idea though, maybe just not feasible.

    I am TOTALLY throwing in Alakazam with Tyranitar. The combo is SOO good. Probably a 1-0-1 line, but maybe a 1-1-1 line just to be safe...OOPS! There is no Kadabra! DANG. Okay, definitely a 1-0-1 line, maybe more.

    I'm still not sold on Weavile. I'd almost be more willing to drop a Togekiss to get the energy on Tyranitar quicker than sitting behind a Weavile for a few turns.

    You are totally right. 5 good shots from Tyranitar/s and the game is over. Energy Link would be sweet, but probably would have to run 4 of it, just for consistency and stuff. Maybe there are other ideas though. I will keep looking.

    Sniping will hurt any slow deck. That is why I feel Tyranitar needs to be powered quickly and not sit on the bench for a few turns while Weavile does it's thing. Let's see how fast I could power a Tyranitar.

    T1: Sneasel active, Larvitar benched. Attach dark to larvitar, pass.
    T2: Evolve to Weavile, attach dark to Larvitar/Pupitar/Tyranitar, use attach to attach 2 more.
    T3: Attach 5th one, free retreat, use Tyranitar's second attack for 30 to everything, or do 100 damage with it's first attack.

    That's pretty darn quick, if it happens that way. Not a bad idea. I will DEFINITELY build it and see. I'm getting my IFDS cards today and probably have all the cards for this deck.

    edit: MD Rotom is not a bad idea. But you'd have to find a way to discard 2 basic dark turn 1. Definitely a decent tech, with Alakazam discarding 2, Rotom could come up after a lost Tyranitar (gonna happen sometime) and start shutting down powers with Alakazam and using the discarded energy to power benched Tyranitars.

    Energy patch is not a bad idea either. Flip a coin, if heads, attach energy from discard pile to Pokemon. Might be too flippy though.

    Super Scoop Up isn't a bad idea, and I guess with the energy in hand, I could use it to discard with Alakazam to shut down powers.

    This deck is cute.
     
  17. Pajamas

    Pajamas <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    I think you have to at least try the 1-1 Darkrai line. If you can get him into play, then your first attack is suddenly doing 30x, and your second attack is 80 + 30 spread, which is beyond crazy. Even without Darkrai, you should be able to OHKO almost every turn once Tyranitar is charged... spread 30, and then attack for 100. The big benefit of Darkrai is that you can speed up this process by racking up KOs while still spreading, rather than relying on Grind.

    Adding Darkrai may increase your need for Moonlight Stadium somewhat, but even without it, it's not all that difficult to warp Tyranitar out, level up Darkrai, and then retreat for 1... you're probably going to want that energy in the discard anyway.
     
  18. butlerforhire

    butlerforhire New Member

    Actually I would not generally SSU a fully energized Tyranitar, but rather I would include the SSU in the Energy Link/Moonlight build and do the old "swap energy-to-fresh, then SSU-the-old" thing and just use the fresh, newly energized (via Energy Link) Tyranitar right off the bat. Then of course you'd get the SSUed one back into play as soon as possible, complete with Energy Link, so you could repeat the process again if you needed to.

    lol + z... Weavile will wait patiently in the corner, deferring to Munchlax, until you do come around and get sold to it. I'd also say that 10 basic energy is also way too low to really abuse with Togekiss. Of course, you could try yet another version of this with more basic energy and an emphasis on powering up Tyranitar all in one turn via Togekiss, and maybe consider the Darkrai tech suggestion to make those basic energy equal to the Special Dark variety so you could be 2HKOing their active while spreading like Pajamas mentioned. Basically I think you've got the Tyranitar testing market pretty much cornered. You should close off a portion of your league just for Tyranitar testing, and call it the T-Zone.

    I think variants of this deck are going to be big next season. It's crazy how different incarnations of Tyranitar have been so consistently good in modified... you'd think they'd switch things up and give us a good Persian or something. Meowth ought to get something for carrying the TV show for so long.
     
  19. dark andy

    dark andy New Member

    Use togekiss,and no munchax,and use sableye{IFDS}.
     
  20. Pikachews

    Pikachews New Member

    This is a very nice deck! I like how it is put togther :D
     
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