If broken time space came back

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Normal guy, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Normal guy

    Normal guy New Member

    Many people say that basics are getting the most support in our metagame
    So what if broken time space came back?
    Would you play EX decks or stage 2 guys?
    Is there anough stadiums out there to block it?
    Or would it ruin are meta forever?
    I want your thoughts
    What if broken time space came back?
     
  2. losjackal

    losjackal Technical Administrator

    I suspect it would make some decks like Keldeo/Blastoise and Darkrai/Hydreigon more consistent.

    It may also allow for the design and success of decks that wholly utilize evolutions, thus only offering 1 prize at a time.

    Yes, there are plenty of stadiums in the format now to have full-on Stadium wars.

    At this point, BTS might be a good thing for the game. I'm wondering if there are any Stage 2's that would just be broken if so.
     
  3. Vulpix Yolk

    Vulpix Yolk New Member

    Broken Time Space would really wreck this metagame. Garchomp Altaria would be absolutely broken, and the idea of T1 Blastoise is also kind of scary. As much as I love Broken Time Space as a card, I really don't feel it would be a healthy addition to the metagame. It would create more donks, and add an unneeded element of speed. If it is reprinted however, I can't wait to start playing it again :)
     
  4. Ignatious

    Ignatious New Member

    Garchomp/Altaria would still be bad. Though, it would become better. I'm also not sure if Keldeo/Blastoise would be broken with the card. It fights vs its own Tropical Beach, and add more space issues to an already tight list. Honestly I don't think Keldeo/Blastoise would run BTS if we had it.

    As of now, I think it'd be great for the format.
     
  5. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    First turn Gothitelle?

    If Broken Time-Space came back, decks would learn not to depend upon Tropical Beach. Think of what Empoleon decks could do as well.

    The problem isn't really that Evolutions are too slow, it is that overall the format is too fast. Thing about it, even hitting turn T2 is "too slow" for Evolutions! @_@

    If you really want improved balance, try improving the lower Stages in a line. Make all Evolving Basic Pokémon more useful with better "set-up" attacks and effects, and front loading the HP. So for example, if Emboar has 150, Pignite has like 120 or 130, and Tepig is clocking in at 100. If the Evolving Basic Pokémon weren't such easy FTKOs and also contributed to the deck instead of being a place holder... well how much better would Empoleon decks be if Piplup had Call For Family and a few more HP?

    Plus, making Stage 1 Pokémon useful at all would be a big help too.
     
  6. celeni

    celeni New Member

    roserade would become a staple to setting up. drop BTS and evolve to roserade search for 1 card you need. then evolve another or devolution spray and instantly evolve again. a consistent way to get 2 to 4 cards you need to set up in one turn.

    aggron could actually mill by itself. imagine 3 aggrons a turn everyturn from turn one on.

    empoleon/accellgor would set up turn one. donks from empoleon. start paralyze locking from turn 1. drop a fresh accellgor every turn necessary. only thing slowing it down would be the DCE needed every turn. could drop in a 2/2 roserade line to remedy this.

    plasma magnazone would actually be viable.

    plasma klingklang could setup from turn 1 and put out multiple plasma klingklang at a time.

    if BTS became staple enough people could tech a 1/1/1 dusknoir into a big basic deck to evolve using the opponents BTS.

    venusaur could actually be true consistency boosting card. it would open up teching.

    i can see many viable combos and many set up pokemon would take the crutches evolution decks have been forced to use this season from the candy rule and lack of overpowered stage 2s(1s).
     
  7. King Piplup

    King Piplup New Member

    I actually think an Ace Spec BTS, potentially as a Plasma Card (but not only applying to Plasmas) would do wonders for the game right now, but I'm not holding my breath.
     
  8. Vegeta ss4

    Vegeta ss4 Iron Chef Leader

    I think if BTS came back, the format would be EXACTLY the same. The EX's are just soo consistent and quick. Bringing in the Stage 2's even with BTS isn't 100% reliable like an Ultra Ball for a Mewtwo EX. The format is abused by great trainer cards in combination with big basics.
    Stage 2's will have their day, soon I'd imagine.

    As for playable cards in the format, Shiftry would be up there, yes it is a flip but on a lucky day you win, an unlucky day you still can make the cut.
     
  9. LARRY891

    LARRY891 New Member

    I have to agree with Vegeta here; the EX cards are just way too powerful in this current format to be stopped by Stage 2s. The only cards I can see coming close to matching them in usefulness are the following:
    *Garchomp
    *Shiftry NXD
    *Ninetales
    *Garbodor
    *Roserade

    That's not a lot, and they still don't add up to having all the raw power of something like Mewtwo-EX or a Keldeo-EX with a bunch of water energy on it. In a nutshell, to get one of these cards running on turn one, you'd need the following in your opening hand:
    *A BTS (or access to one, such as Skyla or Computer Search)
    *The basic form, the middle form (if a Stage 2), and the final form (or ways to get them out)
    *Energy to attack with that card (at least in Garchomp's and Ninetales' cases)

    Bear in mind, this doesn't even count the potential necessity for cards like N or Juniper to ensure you can get the extra cards you need. Aren't things starting to look a bit ridiculous here?
     
  10. left4gengar

    left4gengar New Member

    Aggggggggron could get rid of 49 cards t1how doees that make u feel that like sketty and butter on steroids with a guito mover
     
  11. LARRY891

    LARRY891 New Member

    For Aggron to mill the most number of possible cards on turn 1, you would need to be able to play all of the following:
    *A 4-4-4 Aggron line, or some Lairons replaced with Rare Candies. And you need to make sure NONE of them are Prized.
    *At least one BTS (and again, not Prized)
    *4 Super Scoop Ups (and you need all 4 to flip heads)
    *Dowsing Machine (to get a SSU back)

    That's a minimum of 18 different cards, not counting search or draw cards. How the hell are you going to play that many on the first turn?

    P.S. And that total's 27 cards, not 49.
     
  12. ajhawk

    ajhawk New Member

    I think a couple things would become more playable.

    - Gardevoir/Gallade

    - Gothitelle

    - Garbodor

    I also believe that RayEels would easily supplant Stoise as BDIF. Not having to expose yourself to Tynamo sitting there, would be ridiculous.
     
  13. cabd

    cabd New Member

    You forgot recycle, allows another four SSU uses.
     
  14. Vegeta ss4

    Vegeta ss4 Iron Chef Leader

    I think Gardevoir/Gallade is pretty playable already. Don't be surprised if you see it have some success in the next few events.
    4 psychic energy for 160 is beast.
    My list has had playtesting success against every deck, I just haven't played too many highly skilled players to really base it off of.
    The list isn't even good yet, just solid. Around 8-9 cards of tweaking before it is legit in my eyes.
    Poke line up for the deck is this
    4 Emolga
    4 Ralts
    3 Kirlia
    2 Gardevoir(energy accel)
    1 Gardevoir
    3 Gallade
    2 Mewtwo EX
    1 Sigilyph
    ...20

    I think Gothitelle/Shiftry has a chance, its basically nothing more than a deck of flips, but on a lucky day it won't lose.
     
  15. Otaku

    Otaku Active Member

    I cannot agree with this, but you reminded me of how poorly I phrased my last post. Roughly 90% of the format would remain the same, for the exact reason Vegeta ss4 cited. We might lose one or two current top performing decks, but most are unaffected or possibly strengthened by the return of Broken Time-Space. We also might get one or two new decks, and exact order of dominance could vary.

    What we don't get is a good, balanced format where the bulk of the card pool can see reasonable competitive play. Broken Time-Space contains "broken" in its name; consider that a warning label. :rolleyes:

    =========================================================

    Perfect turn 1 Aggron mill (and mind you, this is a list for T1 not a list I would run otherwise) sees four Aron hit the field. As Rare Candy was per-erratum the last time Broken Time-Space was legal, I do not know if they are now compatible or not, but assuming they are, you need at least one Lairon. So far, four uses of Toppling Wind.

    The Aggron Evolved through Lairon via Broken Time-Space is then hit and re-Evolved thanks to Devolution Spray four times. Downsing Machine and four copies of Recycle allow you to use Devolution Spray four more times, for nine more uses of toppling wind.

    Finally, as we are talking an ideal scenario regardless of realistic luck, four Super Scoop Up that all hit allow you to replay that same Aron-Lairon-Aggron four more times.

    So far, that gives 17 uses, which would discard a total of 42 cards. The number 49 isn't divisible by three... and three cards is how many a single toppling wind discards. Note the luck requires for this is much worse than I've already implied; besides getting eight "heads" consecutively (four Recycle, four Super Scoop Up), nothing used being in your Prizes, and getting everything and in the correct order, the deck will require extra draw power; I used 28 cards:

    4 Aron
    4 Lairon/Rare Candy
    4 Aggron
    4 Devolution Spray
    4 Recycle
    4 Super Scoop Up
    1 Broken Time-Space
    1 Dowsing Rod
    2 cards to discard for Dowsing Rod

    Using the card pool as of the release of BW: Plasma Storm, the biggest potential draw Supporter I believe would be Colress. If my opponent starts out with a full Bench and I start out with one Aron active and three Benched, from my opening hand of seven cards plus opening draw that would leave four cards in my hand. Then assume I am able to play three more cards that are part of the combo and are used towards the beginning (let us just say Broken Time-Space, a Lairon, and an Aggron), leaving me with just Colress to play.

    Using Colress, I would shuffle my hand of no cards into my deck and draw eight new cards (opponent has a Bench of five, I have a Bench of three). For the 28 cards I need, at this point the most I could have drawn would be 7 (opening hand) + 1 (opening draw) - 1 (Supporter) + 8 = 15. This would then require Bicycle, as anything else wouldn't be enough of a net gain for a single turn. Assuming we can order things so that the hand is played down to just Bicycle each time, another 16 cards can be drawn.

    Unfortunately, that isn't enough. Why? We just added Bicycle to the combo, plus earlier we allowed Recycle to be played to top deck Devolution Spray... but then one must re-draw it. In other words, total cards drawn when all is said and done must be our previous 28, plus nine (one Colress, four Bicycle, and four extra Devolution Spray being redrawn). That brings the total to 37, and so card I can only manage 32 (seven card opening hand plus one card opening draw plus Colress for eight plus 16 cards drawn from four uses of Bicycle).

    Leaving out Recycle saves us not only having to draw it (four cards) but having to re-draw what was top-decked via Recycle (another four cards), for a total of eight cards less, which would allow Bicycle to work. This would be four less uses of Toppling Wind for 13 total uses and 39 cards discarded. It is so improbable, one might as well go for a Turbo Lairon deck instead, using Ether/Pokédex to power it up first turn then hoping for as many "heads" in a row as possible. :lol:
     
  16. Rogue Archetype

    Rogue Archetype Moderator <br> Contest Host

    I remember being outright OPPOSED to BTS before it was released; it really didn't "break" anything.
    We were in an SP-dominated format (all basics) while MACHAMP (auto KO basics) was still out there.

    Strategy is strategy and they'll always be a way to tech/prepare for something else.

    Personally, I'd LOVE to see BTS return to the game. Just fix it like they did with Rare Candy; "This card cannot be played during the first turn of the game" or something like that.

    While we're at it, bring back Time-Space-Distortion! I invested over $200 to have two playsets of those! :nonono:
     
  17. YoungNes

    YoungNes New Member

    stoutland no supporter for u and then nxt set i play ghetsis no trainers.
     
  18. chrataxe

    chrataxe New Member

    Does BTS supersede the T1 evolving rule?

    My understanding of the new T1 rules is that YOU CANNOT EVOLVE ON YOUR FIRST TURN, not, you can IF...

    Me thinks it doesn't, so it doesn't change much. We have higher HP, higher damage basics that don't need time to develop or extra cards clogging up your deck.
     
  19. Vegeta ss4

    Vegeta ss4 Iron Chef Leader

    I'm sure BTS gets around the rule. I mean attacking or affects allow for evolutions so why not BTS? I'm not too confident in saying this though.
     
  20. tutti

    tutti New Member

    With its current text, it wouldn't let you evolve T1. Only the rule about evolving a pokémon you just played or evolved is removed; no evolution T1 stays.
     

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