Is Empoleon any good?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Magic_Umbreon, Feb 17, 2008.

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  1. Magic_Umbreon

    Magic_Umbreon Researching Tower Scientist, Retired

    Aqua Shower seems to be an attack of little use as pokémons' HPs are so much higher; and Empoleon can't dish out damage as fast or as effectively as Magmortar or Gallade. I haven't heard of Empoleon as a top-tier deck, but is it a good play?
     
  2. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    well i think that it might just have what it takes to win a few states.
    its not expected to see play, so it has moderate suprise factor. and it can snipe, while not as good as it used to be, it can still catch the unwary by suprise.
    so i think that its still good. but itll take effort to make a winning deck with it.

    speaking of empoleon though, i just posted a deck list for it in the deck help fourm like 10 minutes ago...
     
  3. ~Blazi-King~

    ~Blazi-King~ New Member

    For a Battle Road/City Championship I think Empoleon is Great! I used it during both of those types events and won 3 of them (2 BR's and 1 CC) Using a Empoleon Variant.

    What you have to remember when trying to use him is to focus on Consistency above all else. Otherwise Empoleon has trouble...
     
  4. helghast101

    helghast101 New Member

    The reason an empoleon deck is good????

    1. He is anti-magy.
    2. The deck is based around him.(no random tech's and such)
    3. The deck is built to destroy pokepowers.
    4. It's consistant
    5. When one empolean get ko'd, there should be another already waiting to take its place.
     
  5. ~Blazi-King~

    ~Blazi-King~ New Member

    1. Unless they run Holon FF, like most do.
    2. Thats true.
    3. Yupp
    4. ONLY if built correctly (Trainer Engine).
    5. From my playtesting and actual Tournement Exp. with Emp, 65% of the time your statement is true.
     
  6. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    i have never seen a magmortar deck play holon ff. but i could just be sheltered..
    it uses an energy attachment for the turn, and doesnt add damage to its first attack.

    empoleon is a consistant deck though, thats where it has the edge against other decks.
     
  7. bonslypwns

    bonslypwns New Member

    But many decks use other techs with Emp, to make it more consistent etc., not always just Emp.
     
  8. helghast101

    helghast101 New Member

    yup, they do run FF, most do anyway. and typhlosion...
     
  9. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    like mine im currently working on.
    how would straight empoleon work? i havent seen that. its always been with mantine and/or lucario, stuff like that.


    well i know that they play typhlosion. thats a given. i just havent seen any with holon ff.
     
  10. bonslypwns

    bonslypwns New Member

    Lucairo isn't to good... but yea, sometime cess. can hurt you aswell.
     
  11. Darkwalker

    Darkwalker New Member

    Holon FF in Magmortar is purely based on region. If there is a noticeable amount of Water based decks, Magphlosion could run as many as 3 Holon FF without really disrupting what the deck can do. Typically, Magphlosion doesn't need any Holon FF as there are no water decks to worry about.
     
  12. fchangus2

    fchangus2 New Member

    IMO, Empoleon has very good potential for the current game.

    It has a near auto-win against Magmortar - good Magmortar lists don't run holon ff and you can beat the bad lists easily.

    Against G&G, since you run holon wp, it can take away the sonic blade and force the G&G to turn over 4 prizes for the OHKO. If you can get a quick empoleon up with a water and a holon wp and start hitting their bench 40 a turn (while they set up with furret), it hurts and will force them to kill the first empoleon with psychic cut by turning over 4 prizes. G&G does not like damage spreads because it takes away the effectiveness of Bring Down.

    the key is to make the empoleon deck consistent and I think this is where Claydol comes in. Claydol makes empolen much more playable for States.
     
  13. Blaziken 1111

    Blaziken 1111 Active Member

    I have found there are 2 types of empoleon decks that work. Spead spread and speed empoleon. Speed spread is you spread damage all over and then you sweep up and speed empoleon is you set up empoleon ASAP and you snipe and gain prizes quickly. Both of them are good but they are very different. I tried speed empoleon and I'm going to try speed spread. I didn't really like speedpoleon and I would think speed spread would be my type of deck. Also speed spread is the type of deck ambush was and also empokario although empokario can be made to be a speed poleon deck. Speed spread has been made into a lot of other types of decks like absolutions. I have noticed that every list I have seen on the Gym since cities ended has been speedpoleon.
     
  14. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    what kind of differences are there between the two decks?
    like pokemon wise i dont thind there would really be any.
    but what about trainer-wise?
    i can think of how speed empoleon would maybe use more dusk/master/quick balls, and stuff like that.
    or do they just use a different strategy?
     
  15. fchangus2

    fchangus2 New Member

    spread is a much better way to play emploen in the format. empoleon suffers from the fact that it does not have huge damage output later in the game so you want to be able to abuse your scrambles. Spread early in the game and let your opponent take the first prizes and come back with scrambles. By then, 70 damage would be enough to OHKO late in the game.

    deck builds would definitely be different between the two versions.
     
  16. Blaziken 1111

    Blaziken 1111 Active Member

    Well it's mostly the stratagy and little changes but those little changes make a bid difference. In speedpoleon empoleon is the main attacker. In speedspread primplup is the main attacker so the lines would be 4-2/3-4 empoleon with 4 rare candy or speedpoleon and for speedspread 4-4-3 or 4-4-3-1 because empoleon is just a sweep up card because most of the game your going to be using brine and then when your behind in prizes you scramble an empoleon and take prizes. The energy should be pretty much the same exept maybe a DRE or 2 could be teched into a speedpoleon for speed. The trainer line would be different. Speedpoleons trainer line would be built for speed like you said most of it would be trainers. Speed spreads line would be more consistent and built like a set up deck. Also speedpoleon can use mantine and techs like palkia, ampheraros and other cards. Speed spread wouldn't use a lot of techs becuase you would want primplup out attacking T2.
     
  17. vanderbilt_grad

    vanderbilt_grad New Member

    The thing is that Empoleon actually gives Pachirisu something to do after T1. Pachi does 40 ... or 70 if you actually play Cess and then discards it. I suspect that a fair number of decks, especially Magmortar decks, will be running Pachi as a starter. Further in regards to the Magmortar matchup, Typhlosion discards water energy when he attacks. It's really annoying against Empoleon, though far less so vs. Prinplup.
     
  18. ~Blazi-King~

    ~Blazi-King~ New Member

    Hmmm funny, cuz all the good players around here including me have been running Holon FF since we started playing magmortar.

    Remember, having the energy to be able to do the first attack is not needed most of the time. Spread, spread, spread...Just like Empo..Only difference is your protecting yourself from any unforseen TecHs (like Mew *, etc), or even full blown water decks. Holon FF also insures that you have the greatest % of beating a water deck comboed with Pachirisu.
     
  19. helghast101

    helghast101 New Member

    yupped

    this is the straight empolean deck from worlds:

    Pokes: 14
    4 Piplup
    3 Prinplup
    4 Empoleon
    2 Corsola
    1 Holon's Electrode

    Trainers: 30
    4 Cursed Stone
    4 Cessation Crystal
    4 Holon Transceiver
    4 Celio's Network
    3 Rare Candy
    2 Holon Mentor
    2 Holon Scientist
    2 Holon Adventurer
    2 Castaway
    1 Holon Farmer
    1 Copycat
    1 Steven's Advice

    Energy: 16
    3 Scramble
    1 Double Rainbow
    12 Water
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2008
  20. Skull Bash

    Skull Bash New Member

    Empoleon to me loses steam just because from Pachurisu alone it takes 70 damage and gets Cessation taken away from it. I still think it can beat Magmortar though so it should at least be viable. I tried a Furret Empoleon not too long ago and it worked decently.
     

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