Is "GeChamp" a new metagame counter?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by i like burdn of a day, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. Somebody did extremely well with this deck at states. http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=95934 I tested it out, its actually pretty good. Although i think that there's another combo with Gengar that would work better, "GeChamp" is a pretty good Metagame counter. Discuss.
     
  2. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Machamp in general is a great metagame counter. It has a GREAT matchup against Galactic decks of all kinds.
     
  3. jrwaxman

    jrwaxman New Member

    It was my two sons and I that played GeChamp at Florida states. My son played Gengar through most of the cities and we fooled around with a lot of variants going into States. It was not until after the first weekend that we came up with the idea for the Champ line. They are two powerful stage 2 Pokes that have the ability to attack with just one energy which allows them to keep up with the speed of the G Pokes. Seemed to be the play since there was a lack of Unown G being played. I think Gengar or Machamp can be used in several different combinations with other Pokes but they sure do work well together. There are a couple of other key cards though that make them work against the Metagame though.
     
  4. RaiGuy

    RaiGuy New Member

    A friend and I are planning on running it for Regionals if it does fine. I played a Master's version and beat it with Gengar/Gliscor. I am in Wisconsin, just to let anyone know. Our metagame is a lot different compared to anywhere else. I don't think that it can meet the standards though. I disagree how some said that Machamp alone is good. It can only beat a few decks and most likely will go even. (ie. 3-3). Gengar alone doesn't have enough "umph" to be played seriously and competitively. I think that the two work a lot more smoother together.

    @jrwaxman
    If you wouldn't mind, could I see your Gengar/Machamp list, via PM. I would like to compare it to the one being used around here.
     
  5. darkartisan

    darkartisan New Member

    ^^ Machamp is a beast. I built it around the concept of going through half the deck T2, and i've gotten two T2 machamp about 80% of the time. I definately think that Machamp with something teched INTO it could have potential, I have been looking at possible techs, especially SP pokemon, stage 1 electrics such as Manectric, and others.

    Todays metagame is definately the toughest, Too many decks to keep up with.
     
  6. jjkkl

    jjkkl Front Page Article Editor

    I honestly considered a Gengar/Gliscor, especially since both have no retreat cost and Gliscor's Shoot Poison is really helpful for prolonging the damage done by Shadow Room and Poltergeist.

    I wouldn't consider GenChan (what we call it up here) a metagame counter, though. It loses against decks such as Blastcatty, Torterra, and Dusknoir. It's mainly SP Decks that it has a counter against, and frankly, if playing against a G Deck, if you're skilled enough, you can take it down with any well built deck.
     
  7. jrwaxman

    jrwaxman New Member

    This deck is all about targeting easy quick prize cards. The deck has a hard time taking out decks with big stage 2 Pokes without support basics with powers. But how many decks fit this mold these days? I knew that I would not see these in the top cuts in a G dominated format. There were no Torterra, Dusknoir or Amphy in our Top 16 as I remember and that is what I expected. John Silvestro has always told me two things that I keep in mind when building decks. #1 Speed Kills! #2 Prepare for what you expect to see in top cuts. You cannot prepare for what you might see in the early rounds of swiss.

    This deck has a unique combination of speed and disruptions especially with the release of Lookers. Gastly's Pitch Dark really slows G decks down and the threat of Potergeist requires all decks to ditch trainers and not save them for the oppertune time.

    Usually I stay away from two stage 2 Pokes in a deck unless one of them is for set up like Pidgeot or Nidoqueen but in this case neither one needs the other one and both only require 1 energy to attack.

    I like the deck because it has so many options and can be "teched" to fit your individual playstyle but you need to know your Metagame.
     
  8. Stigma

    Stigma New Member

    I really think it's an extremely powerful deck. It has:

    - Disruption
    - Sniping
    - Auto Destiny Bond
    - HUGE Direct Damage
    - Easily teched

    The fact that it has a good Dialga G matchup is enough to make it a smart play for regionals, as I'm sure we'll see a TON.
     
  9. Gowk

    Gowk New Member

    Keep in mind there is also the great, but now seemingly hidden, Gigas. (Its a counter, not a good one, but a counter)

    What i fail to understand is how Gengar is the key pokemon now. Its snipe is great, and geist is nice. But what does that counter? 6 snipe?

    It does its job. It counters Dialga, G decks in general and a wide arrange of decks, but what about other rogues? Or 'hidden' decks? Torterra? Dusknoir? AmphyTric? Rampardos? Any of the numerous, now unseen decks.

    All in all, it works. Congrats to the winners, and users, of this deck.

    Gowk

    Ps: That is the last time i hurry through a thread and post
     
  10. darkartisan

    darkartisan New Member

    Using Miasma, you can Snipe claydol for knockout, and soften things up quickly.
     
  11. Krusiv

    Krusiv New Member

    I like Gengar just because of how psychological it can be. If your opponent sees that you have a Gengar out they are usually less likely to use Uxie/Cosmic Power because they have a chance to draw a bunch of Trainers and Supporters that they won't be able to get rid of in time. Machamp is pretty powerful, obviously, so overall I think that it is a very interesting idea to say the least.
     
  12. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    I don't understand how you can fit ANYTHING into this deck. I tried building it last night and came up with this:
    3 Gengar
    2 Haunter
    3 Gastly
    1 Machamp X
    2 Machamp
    1 Machoke
    2 Machop
    1 Claydol
    1 Baltoy
    1 Uxie
    1 Azelf
    1 Cresselia
    1 Cress X

    4 Bebe's
    4 Roseanne's
    4 Rare Candy
    1 Warp Point
    1 Luxury Ball
    3 Cynthia's
    4 Looker's Investigation
    2 BTS
    1 Night Maintenance
    1 TSD
    4 Poke Blower +

    4 Multi Energy
    4 Fighting
    4 Psychic

    And that is 61 cards... but how do you tech in anything? Plus, I think it's a little short on Fighting energy...
     
  13. Stigma

    Stigma New Member

    I run 6 Psychic, 4 call, 1 fighting.
    You just had 3 spaces open up.
    You can go 1-0-1-1 machamp, or 2-1-2. Not 2-1-2-1. +1 Space
    You really don't need all four lookers. 3 is fine. +1 space
    2 Cynthia's is fine in the long run. +1 Space
    TSD...No. +1 Space

    Hurray, you just found 6 spaces.
     
  14. Tagrineth

    Tagrineth New Member

    Why Cresselia? Don't see the point in that...
     
  15. jrwaxman

    jrwaxman New Member

    Yoyo- your list is close to what I won with....just a few key cards off. I did not run the Champ level up or an Azelf. Speed stadium, 4 Lookers and 3 Cynthias were key to keeping hand size up. I only ran 11 energy and no calls. I agree with Cresselia comments. It was fantastic when I got it up and it won me 2-3 games but only got it into play a few times. But is that what you should expect out of a "tech" anyway?? My son did not play it...went 11-0....and did not seem to miss it.
     
  16. DragonairMaster8

    DragonairMaster8 New Member

    The hardest matchup i see is Kingdra. Whats the strategy VS it?
     
  17. jrwaxman

    jrwaxman New Member

    ^^^^ Kill the claydol fast, snipe the Uxie and flip a couple of heads on the Feinting Spell. I played Kingdra all through cities and Grafton played Gengar all the way through. I have no idea how many games we playtested and I would say it is a 50/50 match depending on how many Unown G the Kingdra plays. A 50/50 matchup is all I ask for anyway. Having an autoloss in this format is to be expected to maybe and then it all comes down to matchups at the tournament level. As long as your autoloss is not to one of the four decks you expect to see in tops then you are okay.
     
  18. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    This deck really gets hurt by any deck running 2+ Unown G. No one in FL prepared for gechamp, and instead focused on mirror type situations and only ran 1 unown G, hence the deck doing so well.

    I don't see the deck performing as well vs any deck with 2-3 Unown G, however, as Gengar and Machamp are very bad attackers vs a pokemon with an Unown. The autoloss to toolbox is probably hurtful too (weavile/skuntank/honch/toxi all PUNISH gengar and machamp- assuming they run an unown or two), as well as an autoloss to Obama and a few other older decks that are still played.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2009
  19. jrwaxman

    jrwaxman New Member

    ^^^^ Totally agree Ryan. Part of why we decided to run the concept was because we noticed the lack of G's being played.....including ourselves. We used to run at least 2 in every deck and were down to none at the first States in GA. If decks can find 2 spots for G that will make it harder but will slow them down some against other matchups. Will they tech them in for GeChamp? With more Gengar and Machamp being played throughout the format I would expect to see more played. There is a nice balance though with the two Pokes attacks though and the right trainers that they can still be dealt with........but it will be harder. Warps and Blowers really help.
     
  20. ryanvergel

    ryanvergel New Member

    Yeah, after Machamp has done SO well, people will/should start playing 2 unown G in their decks.

    GeChamp was a great week 2 states deck, as no one was really prepared.
     

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