Is getting a bye bad????

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by Ez1, Feb 8, 2004.

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  1. Ez1

    Ez1 New Member

    After reading about the tie break problem I began wondering about bye's. If
    you get a first turn bye(say at the state tournament) is that a good thing
    or bad????

    Will the bye possibly hurt your ranking in a tie break situation??

    Would you have been better to have taken the chance and
    played the first round????

    Also how does it effect your ranking if you played 1 or 2 players(and won)
    who had byes??? Would this also lower your ranking????
     
  2. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    No, Byes are good. In fact, they help your resistance because, coming in later, you're avoiding having a first game against someone that will wind up losing every game. You start off by playing those that have already won some games.
     
  3. mysterioustrainer

    mysterioustrainer New Member

    Opponents that have had byes should still count as a win and therefore improve your own o.m.r. (opponent's match rating). There is a insignificant drawback to a bye though, getting a bye is taking your current o.m.r. and multiplying by 1. Meaning nothing happens to it, but Pokepop is right a first round bye is a good thing!
     
  4. Ez1

    Ez1 New Member

    thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if this lowered your ranking in a tie break
    situation.......
     
  5. mysterioustrainer

    mysterioustrainer New Member

    Another disadvantage to getting a bye is that you don't get the opportunity to improve your overall POP rating. I forgot to mention that!
     
  6. Gym Leader Blaine

    Gym Leader Blaine <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/member.php?u=15

    From my understanding bye are a good thing. For the reason that it is counted as a win in the system.
     
  7. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    There have been instances where "1337" players have tried to convince less-educated players that byes are bad and that they should not take them.
    Beware those that give one bit of "friendly" advice and then turn around and do the opposite themselves.
     
  8. Raikou

    Raikou New Member

    its not exactly that the 1337 players do that, I remember at the 2nd ECSTS that a group of leet players including me were discussing whether to play the first 3 rounds or to actually use our byes. The argument was that by using them it could later hurt your win percentage by not playing anyone round 2 and 3, and that percentage sometimes makes or breaks you for top 8. We all basically decided to use the byes just because it was easier and we figured there was less of a chance of losing one of the first matches and then definitely having crap percentage. Plus, +9 points aint bad either. So don't be making out the 1337 players to be all bad and trick less smart players into not using them.

    TRUST ME IF SOMEONE HAS A BYE, THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY. (and in return know about byes) =/
     
  9. Tego

    Tego New Member

    I didn't get any bye at all because my DCI rating was so low (only somewhere in the 1700s) and I remember I envied all the leet players with 3 byes and saw peole like Jason Klaczinsky and (I think it was) you used them. But after the first 3 rounds, which I all won, I at least managed to place above every leet player out there, 2nd seed. :p Well, I started losing after 4th round or something and dropped down way low in the end, but it was fun to be up there while it lasted. X\
     
  10. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member


    This is most definately the case when using Reporter. BYES ARE GOOD! It may seem odd but giving the strongest players byes as a reward for their strength does benefit the strongest players. It also removes much of the randomness in the first round pairings that can hurt your tie-break value later on.

    Now if the Ninty software just adds up the total opponents resistance without applying any uplift then BYES ARE BAD. AS a byed player actually has fewer opponents.

    Oh well time to see what TMS actually does.. I'll be back in a few hours with an example.
     
  11. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    pesky tms software crashing grrrr.

    anyway awarded byes are penalised by the TMS software :( The byed players had the lowest tie-breakers in the test tournament I tried. This isn't good. The byed player could be undefeated at worlds and yet still miss out on a t8 cut. OUCH

    I can't fathom out TMS's tie-breaker calculation. It does seem to take account of the number of actual games won by your opponents but the divisor it uses is a mystery to me. It seems to be a power law function of actual rounds played ????!@#???!@???
     
  12. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    DCI Reporter gives you a 0.333 opponent-win% for a bye player. TMS gives you 0.000. So, like NoPoke says, TMS isn't as kind for byes. So, as far as the tiebreaker is concerned, getting a bye is like playing a win-less opponent. Nevertheless, it's a 3-point win, and I'll ALWAYS take a garrenteed win!
     
  13. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Still, a big issue. There should not be such a downside to taking a bye!
     
  14. P_A

    P_A Active Member

    Not only that, but the TMS software awards byes to people that in my opinion should never be getting one. In our city championship, in the last round, a player with a 4 and 1 record got a bye, and the top player at the time had the exact same record (other than a slightly higher win percentage). We tried to re-pair the round 6 times to see if the software would pair the two up, but finally we had to do it manually. Very odd if you ask me. In the end the person that originally got the bye won the match. The software isn't quite as user friendly. At least the problems we had were fixable. Now if another round had been played after (a 7th round), and Eric had taken that bye, chances are he wouldn't have ended up in top spot, even with that extra 3 points because he would have been paired differently, and his percentage would have been much lower.
     
  15. Adv1sor

    Adv1sor New Member

    Getting a bye is good.

    This is a situational occurance that first assumes that you would have won the match in which you received a bye; and second assumes that the player you defeated didn't end up dropping out in the next round or losing to all of his or her opponents.
     
  16. Ez1

    Ez1 New Member

    It may be situational but everyone knows that in very large
    tournaments the difference between 12th place and 6th place
    will many times come down to a "situational"
    tiebreaker.

    A first round bye might be a safer beginning but could
    ultimately cost you a tournament victory.

    NoPoke.......did your test give any indication as to the
    ultimate standings of byes when there were multiple
    byes(like you might see at worlds)????
     
  17. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    I used a multiple bye test... it wasn't pretty.. Undefeated and you are still bottom of the tie-breakers.

    The early byes do give you points and should result in your subsequent rounds being against strong players. But with TMS the points from a bye don't mean prizes :(
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2004
  18. Ez1

    Ez1 New Member

    Thanks NoPoke......the news doesn't sound good.
    It sounds like there is a serious choice to be made:
    1. Take the early victory or
    2. Go for the Gold.......??????

    For most of us this probably isn't an issue. But
    among the best could be a potential big problem.
     
  19. Adv1sor

    Adv1sor New Member

    Since when is it a choice whether or not to take a bye? Aren't the byes assigned by the software?
     
  20. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    If you qualify then you enter the tournament with a number of awarded byes, rather than through the grinders for example.

    Unfortunately the TMS software favours the player who gets in through the grinders rather than the player that won a qualifier.
     
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