Is it good enough for the US? A post on rest of the world issues with a twisted view

Discussion in 'TCG News & Gossip Discussion' started by ukpokemonpro, Oct 4, 2003.

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  1. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    Okay IPGeek gave me a different angle to approach the whole USA okay and the rest of the world can go hang issue.

    He asked; and yes it is out of context..

    Well how about asking .. whatever is GOOD enough for the for the rest of the world is NOT for the USA?

    Just stop and ponder for a moment...

    You are in the US and you see the following happening, and you know that it was the same under WotC for such a long time..

    1) Ruby and Sapphire Challenges

    2) Pre-release Tournaments

    3) League play on season 2 already

    4) Floor rules and reporting software seen and commented on by TOs and others from the worldwide community but excluding the US. A final version released that is not clear and seems to take no account of US OP... and that you did not get a chance to comment on

    5) Requests for support for leagues and tourneys run at your own expense with your time and effort expended ignored. Whilst you see the rest of the world awash with PUI support.

    6) The rest of the world chatting with PUI over rulings and BS for 3 hours a week whilst the US is told nothing at first, then PUI posts that OP will be later for you, ... some weeks away... maybe due to the caviat NEVER..

    7) where the caviat is

    Not all events listed are available in the US. Additional programmes may become available regionally, or be rolled out in the future. For additional information, or information specific to events in your area, please visit us at http://op.pokemon- tcg.com/US.html

    By the way were such a site to exist it would be updated once and then ignored.

    8) How about your professors and TOs logging onto a site where there is no option to enter a US zip code, where you cannot enter non UK other as an option on the drop down and you have to select a UK county instead of being able to select NON UK other.. if you don't do this by the way you cannot apply to be a Professor or TO.

    9) And on top of this the rest of the world can register at a Nintendo site that gives special access to unseen parts of the Pokemon TCG website and you CAN NOT register as it says

    Nintendo's Privacy Policy is intended to meet the privacy laws and requirements of the United Kingdom and the rest of the world except the US. These regulations may not comply with the laws and requirements of the US. Therefore, Nintendo.com registration is available to residents of the United Kingdom and the rest of the world; USA EXCLUDED.

    Even Pop agrees that:

    So now you sit in the US where OP support and league support ended in May and you have had nothing at all since then, no NP promos because you cannot subscribe to that if you live in the US, No Foil Kyogre and Groudon and no pre-release tourneys and no Ruby and Sapphire Challenge and no POKEMON ROCKS THE WORLD except the US tour.

    Now is that good enough for you?
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2003
  2. The Anaconda

    The Anaconda New Member

    It's a simple matter of money. Where the money is is where the product will go. Over the years the USA has proved to be a strong and continuous source of money for the Pokemon franchise. Other countries haven't been so successful of a source. IF, say for example, Germany had been the biggest source of money for the Pokemon TCG, they would have the most support. League support, tournaments, and so on costs money. It isn't very practical to continuously spend money on things if you're not going to get a return.

    Now, I will admit that some things should be handled a little differently, but all in all the system is set up right now for the United States. However, as anyone has seen that has logged into their Professor account on pokemon-tcg.com and found they live in Afghanistan, the database format has changed since the grandfathering. And Nintendo has said they want to expand this outside the U.S., but again that will take some time because of money concerns. So all I can say is wait and see what happens.
     
  3. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Hmmm...doubt if its that simple Anaconda.

    Any market that is neglected declines...

    Its one of the reasons that I suspect TPC were unhappy with WotC's offer at the last round of license renewals.

    The European market was at least as big as the whole of continental USA, but that was three years ago. Add in the rest of the world and the USA market is DWARFED by comparison! Three years of neglect and you end up with the current situation. I am reasonably convinced that this neglect was company policy.. Pokémon was damageing the Wotc/Hasbro core brand of Mtg and something had to be done about it. There are even examples such as the 15+ issue where it was deliberate policy to exclude players and get them to shift allegiance. This is quite different to a passive policy of delay and patchy support with no advertising.

    Several months back all the noise comming out of PUI was of an all inclusive vision for pokémon around the world. Since then the message has been subtlely changed. Plans have been delayed. Promises have become maybes. "Hopefully" is what we are now being fed by PUI.

    Try living on a diet of wishes and hopefullies

    There were very particular dificulties at WotC UK wrt pokemon. I'm not privy to the details so don't bother asking. This has resulted in the UK, an english speaking market, being much worse off that might be expected. Life has thrown us poke-lemons. But we are still here and running larger tournaments than much of the USA even with its high levels of support. Imagine what would happen to the scale of the European tournament scene with the same level of support that the USA has received. Now that really would be a bright future for the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2003
  4. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    The Anaconda, show us the figures then? Show us a US market for Pokemon so much bigger than the rest of the world that you can ignore it? I suspect you may be posting your view rather than the reality?

    How about we base support on numbers attending a tourney?

    In which case the UK should recieve more support than most US states... stats and figures can be made to say anything...

    Losing all the profit from Pokemon in its heyday was WotC UKs mistake.. how they did it we don't know?

    But when you look at Hasbro/WotCs multi-million dollar fines for fixing the market you can see why Pokemon may have declined as part of a real strategy by some at Hasbro/WotC to defend their core brand.

    What we did not expect was for PUI and Nintendo to actually be even worse than WotC!

    Again I ask how would you feel if the US watched the rest of the World have a pokemon party and you're excluded?

    How about pretending you're from France and you want to sign up for the Pokemon e-TCG mailing list.... OH DEAR no can do either because that is based on a My Nintendo Account too...... Shakes Head and wonders....
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2003
  5. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Just one correction:

    • 4) Floor rules and reporting software seen and commented on by TOs and TCE (Europes non-existant compendium of rulings). A final version released that is not clear and seems to take no account of US OP... and that you did not get a chance to comment on

    What makes us think TCE got an early review of floor rules and software? Are we just speculating because some other UK website adminsitrator dropped some broad hint about "top players" being in the know and assumed TCE was included?

    The only thing I'm aware of this theoretical TCE doing is having rulings chats. And considering they've been the keepers of rulings for 2 or 3 years, I don't know if I'd get bent out of shape by that.

    Other than that, carry on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2003
  6. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Glad to see you joining in POP. I'm sure Ben will modify his point 4 in the light of this new information. Pokemon Europe Inc doesn't want to be accused of spreading dis-information.

    Anacondas reply was slightly off topic and as usual I was sucked into a reply ... I guess the point of the thread and the whole them-and-us issue is..

    Dear USA...
    How would you like these apples?

    Would you manage to keep your responses to threads where subtle digs at the USA occur totally civil without addressing those digs? Wouldn't you want to correct inaccurate statements by those Europeans with it all, about your neglected position? Just how long could you remain silent, patient, and continue working for the games survival. Even managing to increase the local player base against the odds? A week? A Month? a few months of patience perhaps? how about 6 months or a year or longer? Where you are so used to the local market being overpriced that packs at $4.86 compared to the European price of $4 doesn't seem such a bad deal? where product is delayed and accessories like the e-reader just aren't available for sale? How would you feel when emails are ignored?

    Yep just how would YOU like these apples?

    BTW the quote in my sig is what PUI published earlier in the year. Take a look at UkPokemonPro's sig for the more recent anouncement.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2003
  7. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    NoPoke: Like I told you when we chatted, I don't think that I, personally, would have been able to take it and would have walked away by now.
    I do give you guys credit for that.

    Oh, back to this "nonexistant TCE" for a moment. Team Compendium is not some kind of WotC-created or P-USA funded organization or vendor. We were just a bunch of original-PokeGym members and mods that decided something had to be done to bring consistancy to tourney rulings and we took it upon ourselves to do it. Period. There was nothing about us being in the US that made that easier.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2003
  8. )v(ajin_ipg21

    )v(ajin_ipg21 New Member

    OK, POP caught on to WHAT i can actually comment on...

    FROM my point of view:
    I AM PROUD of the hard work I have been doing. The sweat profusely dripping from my brow for all the PRODUCT, scavenging, TOing, and communication with players from around the states and abroad trying to keep the game alive.

    BUT FRUSTRATED.

    I would constantly wonder WHY AM I STILL DOING THIS and is there any point in continuing.
    Perhaps the friendships. Perhaps the thrill of tourney playing. OR being head HONCHO TO or Head judge. OR Perhaps the HOPE that some day IT WILL CHANGE.

    Companies changed recently and I would hope that offers more than just a glimmer of possibilities BUT REAL answers and SOLUTIONS.

    But still I wait.

    Same old tricks and solutions, and same old non answers.

    My frustration continues.

    AND I cannot stand reading posts by THOSE other players who seem to be in the know, who ARE basking in the events that are BEING held for them.

    Well for some of them. Some do suffer our fate of HAVING little support at their local CITY, county, state to NO PREMIER events and they too scramble throughout the net (trading, ebay) scavenging for all the NEW promos.

    SO I try to be as civil and patient, but for how much longer.

    *I for one TAKE for granted what is available here. BUT do appreciate it. THE OTHER game I play, MAN, do they suffer similar fates, BUT when a certain set was released in AUSTRALIA only, A LOT of us went EBAY buying.*

    BTW if the situation would be reversed GOOD chance I'd quit. I'd go support a GAME that provides THE SUPPORT I want.

    SO I REALLY DO ADMIRE WHAT I SAW AND ALL THAT I KNOW YOU GUYS do. Just that on the boards... we can't provide solutions and you keep posing questions NONE of us can answer and then BOTH sides get miffed due to the misunderstanding and TENSION.

    I like the post...
     
  9. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    POP I hold you guys at TC (the real one ;) ) in high esteeme. Its mostly why I posted my concern about the closed rulings forum...If I didn't care I wouldn't bother.
     
  10. RaNd0m

    RaNd0m New Member

    I honestly sympathize with you guys, over in Europe. But I also sympathize with MYSELF.

    First off, I live in rural America. BAD PLACE to be if you like Pokemon. The closest league is 5 hours away. I haven't played in a tournament since January 2003, and before that the last one was Worlds 2002. I still stay very active in this game online, but it's not the same. Now I WANT to see OP next year in a big way, but it'll still probably mean I'll have to travel 5 hours to play Pokemon, which I can't do now that I have a job. THE ONLY possible way for me to do this is if they had something on the end of the line, like $$$ support or a trip. Otherwise, it's not worth traveling 10 hours (and playing 8) to just play for fun. I wish it was, but it isn't.

    You are seriously making it out like the US is getting everything, and many of us over here simply ARE NOT. If you live in an urban area, you will have tournaments. At least you guys have smaller countries =P

    ~ RaNd0m
     
  11. GymLeaderPhil

    GymLeaderPhil New Member

    I really dont mind seeing advanced information that other players have gathered. It's exciting to hear about something before its released to the public. Stuff like the EX: Dragons name and design pictures really spur interesting conversations.

    HOWEVER, the Pokemon USA/Nintendo/The Pokemon Company needs to start considering customer support, which I see little of. We need weekly chats, a phone number to contact, and replies to Emails. I imagine if I contacted one of the support emails right now with a hotmail email account I would never get a reply DESPITE a valid and intelligent question. What if I contacted using my @pojo Email? I might get a reply, more so than the hotmail.

    Albeit there are some things we will never hear about. Tey're not about to disclose to some random person the next promotional card before its even final. I think the complaints are valid and needed regarding the situation in Europe, but I think, personally, that you're silly if you think you're going to squeeze any confidential information from the company. Look at all the chat logs we've had with Wizards of the Coast. They NEVER allowed any question regarding issues that they didnt mention on their website or through other publications. Something needs to be done, but its not going to be and should not only be told to a select few IMO.
    -Phil
     
  12. Skywolf1

    Skywolf1 New Member

    I have to come to the defense of the International community here. Let me begin by making some general statements that can be clairifed by the people/players/TO's in these areas to be fact.

    1. The last "SE Pokemon Challenge" held in London, UK was attended by sixty (yes 60) players, without any support from Nintendo at ALL. This was the 4th installment of this very successfull series of events.

    The tireless dedication of ukpokemonpro, NoPoke59 and others made this event, and all past ones possible.

    On the subject of numbers, 60 people rivaled that of OUR "Sandstorm Pre-release" tournaments.

    Tego in Norway has also hosted a series of successful events, with little or no support from Nintendo, as has been met with favourable results.

    The same goes for the TO's in Italy and Belgium.

    These are just a few examples. I am sure there are more, but these are the more significant ones.

    To state, that the success of these events is "money based" in a very slated argument, as many players in THIS COUNTRY have done a FRACTION of what this group of dedicated TO's/Players/Professors have done to sustain interest in this game in their respective areas.

    I have been, and will continue to work dilligently to support the international cause.

    Recently, I wrote a three page discertation to PUI outlining the concerns and issues raised by the internatioal contingent. It is my hope (and belief) that these ideas (at least some of them) will be implemented soon.

    So, while it may SEEM to many of us in THIS country that there isn't a market for this game outside the United States, I want to put that misnomer to rest right now. There is, and a strong contingent at that.

    Take Care,

    Skywolf1
     
  13. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    TCE has left the building ;)

    Seriously folks maybe I have been losing it but as the man says...

    LOL I will try to behave ... 'til next time ;)

    Seriously tho' for a moment ... we are a community here and I have felt a little adrift lately so thanks guys and gals for helping bring me home :)

    Now personally I want my apples stewed and with custard not these sour crab apples we keep getting fed ...
     
  14. Michel

    Michel New Member

    "I would constantly wonder WHY AM I STILL DOING THIS and is there any point in continuing."
    Good question IPGeek. Friendship, love of the game and the community, ... or complete madness, ... or a new kind of masochism ? :confused:


    "It's a simple matter of money. Where the money is is where the product will go. Over the years the USA has proved to be a strong and continuous source of money for the Pokemon franchise. Other countries haven't been so successful of a source. " :lol:

    Anaconda, don't you think that shops, distributors and Wizards have made A LOT OF money with Pokemon in Europe ? Do you think that the European market is not as good as the US one ? Don't you think European people have as much money for TCG as people in the USA ?

    The point is : if you don't invest money and don't support a market, that market will die. If you invest time and money somewhere, you have a lot of chances to have more return than where you invest only a few. As simple as that.

    Wizards has stopped supporting Pokemon in France two years ago ... there are still people who are interested in the game there, but will they put money in a game that is not supported by the sellers ?

    What you say is the first step of a circle ... we don't support or we give less support to Europe because that market doesn't make money, the market doesn't make money because there is no support, less money less support, less support less money ...

    It is very clear if you know the different European markets. OP and promotion are in the hands of the local distributors. If a distributor is dynamic, want to promote the game, we'll see a lot of players at the leagues and tournaments.
    Take a distributor who don't care about Pokemon, and except if you have some crazy people like the UK guys, you'll not hear about Pokemon anymore.
    Do you know where the most popular STS qualifier has been run in Europe ? Not in France, Holland, Belgium or England ... in Poland. Very dynamic distributor who has put money, time and energy in the promotion of the game, and who has surely seen money coming from the game on his account.

    Last thing about that point ... if Europe didn't make money for Wizards and TPC, why would have TPC invited European players to the TMB in Hawaii every year ? Because they love Europe, or because they had pity on us ? No way. Like TPC's boss told us in Hawaii last year, simply because the European market is important for them.


    Ukpokemonpro ... nice topic :thumb:
    I would change one thing in your introduction anyway.
    Instead of saying "You are in the US and you see the following happening..", I would better say 'You are in the US and you see the following happening, and you know that it has been the same for a very long time .." ;)
     
  15. ukpokemonpro

    ukpokemonpro New Member

    I'll be changing the question to reflect that right now... and as ever Michel you have again put it so well ... and maybe a second question arises from what your saying...

    and what PokePop says too..

    So it's been like this for 3 years and you have never had a complete league kit, never seen a season start on time, fought tooth and nail for one SBZ and now more of the same it seems ... what is the state of Pokemon like in the USofA that has gone through all that?
     
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