Kingdra-Is it really THAT good?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Brawler, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. Brawler

    Brawler <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    Hi. I'm Brawler1624, and I am somewhat new to the pokegym. I have heard hype about Kingdra,
    and I'm here to talk about it.

    Now, as for the title, is it really THAT good?

    .......Well, yes.

    Kingdra has several things going for it.

    For starters, it's a stage 2. Meh, right? Well, no. It's pretty much the oppisite.

    Look at it.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Kingdra LV.52 – Water – HP130
    Stage 2 – Evolves from Seadra

    [.] Aqua Stream: Choose any number of Water Energy in your discard pile, show them to your opponent, and do 10 damage for each Energy card. Then, return those Energy to your deck and shuffle your deck.
    [W] Dragon Pump: 40 damage. You may discard 2 cards from your hand. If you do, this attack does an additional 20 damage and does 20 damage to 1 of your opponent's Benched Pokemon.

    Weakness: Lightning (+30)
    Resistance: none
    Retreat: 1

    Credit goes to WPM for the translation.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    WHOA! 1 :water: can do 60, along with 20 to one of the bench, with two cards discarded?

    It gets better.

    By abusing the second attack, you can discard :water: energy so late game Aqua Stream will
    be deadly. (Felicity helps, too.)

    Q:And 130HP? Can it get much better?

    A:Yes.

    A:With Pluspowers around, donks can become frequent, making it a destructive deck.

    Q: Does this mean it will dominate the format like GG?

    A: Yes and no.

    Yes, it will with the new bubble coat coming out,

    and no. There is 1 card capable of stopping it:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Luxray LV.51 – Lightning – HP120
    Stage 2 – Evolves from Luxio

    Poke-Body: Rivalry
    If your opponent has any Pokemon LV.X in play, all of this Pokemon's attacks do an additional 50 damage to any Active Pokemon.

    [C][C] Plasma: 40 damage. Attach 1 Lightning Energy card from your discard pile to Luxray.
    [L][L][C] Shock Bolt: 100 damage. Discard all Lightning Energy attached to Luxray.

    Weakness: Fighting (+30)
    Resistance: Steel (-20)
    Retreat: 0

    Credit to WPM for the translation.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Luxray can KO Kingdra, if not careful. Bubble Coat always helps. But Luxray should be treated as a

    50-50 matchup due to weakness.

    In conclusion, Kingdra is broken, but in DP-on it will be countered.


    So, what do YOU think? Like it or hate it?

    Mods:If you think it's nessecary, move this to the news and gossip section.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  2. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Yes, Luxray OHKOs Kingdra, but with the absence of DRE, you're looking at T3 setup. Kingdra can get T1 setup, all it needs is a Horsea, Water, Kingdra, and Candy. Kingdra will get set up faster then Luxray. It can hit for 60 damage. And Kingdra is sooooo much more swarmable then Luxray. Luxray needs three Energy, Kingdra needs 1. And Luxray discards all Energy on it. SO the next Luxray will need a couple turns to power up, while Kingdra is 2HKOing it. AND doing 20 to the Bench. Kingdra can T1 donk a Shinx... etc. Kingdra has so much going for it against Luxray... all Luxray has is Weakness. AND that Weakness can be eliminated if Kingdra plays Bubble Coat.

    I'd say the matchup is more in Kingdra's favour, actually, butI'll agree that Luxray is a tough matchup. Luxray does have an okay matchup against AMU, maybe 50-50 or something. But Luxray lacks the big thing next format, and that's making me doubt how good a counter it will be: Speed. If DRE was in the format, it MIGHT have had a chance with Buck's an Plus Power, but DRE isn't. I don't like that heavy discard on Luxray either. That slows it down even more. And Kingdra is just... so fast.

    The only other good thing I can see on Luxray is the Free Retreat. If you can get two Luxray set up by T2, or at least by T3, you may have a pretty decent chance against Kingdra. But one isn't going to win the game for you. When you're up against 2-3 Kingdra.

    So, in closing, yes, Kingdra is that good. Luxray is an okay counter, but, IMO, Kingdra can easily beat it. IMO, when I see a card that can KO Kingdra and is just as fast, that's when I'll concede that Kingdra has a major counter. But until that day, I won't believe it. I think that Leafeon has an average matchup against it, because of Kingdra's low Damage output and Leafeon lv.X for being so good, but again, I'll say it. Kingdra is too fast for Leafeon, and Leafeon can't keep up. IF they can get a Leafeon Lv.X up, you should be going fine, but that might be hard to do, with a T1-T2 Kingdra out.

    Glaceon also has a decent chance, but again, TOO SLOW. Eevee only has 60 HP. A Kingdra up faster then you can get your Glaceons will own you. And late game, if you need that OHKO on some big opponent, or you need deck refresh, or something, just Aqua Stream away. After a while, you can be doing quite a bit of damage with Kingdra.

    AMU is one of the few decks that can survive, ONLY due to the fact that the new Pixies have 70 HP. This means Kingdra will need Buck's or PP to donk a Pixie.

    So, again, KINGDRA WILL BE TOO FAST FOR THE METAGAME. T1 60-20 spread is just broke. Especially combined with 130 HP, low Retreat, high damage output if needed. and being so SWARMABLE, makes Kingdra easily one of the best cards I have seen in a long time.
     
  3. Brawler

    Brawler <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    What I mean to say is, it will be attempted to counter.

    Kingdra just owns.

    IMO, it's a matter of who gets the first Candy/Kingdra/:water: in a mirror match.
     
  4. Red Haired Shanks

    Red Haired Shanks New Member

    Kingdra is really not that good, Talk about total deck out!

    ruining cards, absol, Ryhperior, Houndoom, Feraligatr, or even TGW. Start off with some wailord and get your pokemon ready and pumped to go. And soon Electivire will be famous again, T2 Electrivire, with the Electrode is just a big counter of Kingdra. Darkrai has always been famous and Banette too. only 60 attack and much pokemon can withstand that kind of damage.

    "If your opponent has a huge hand full of junk, Wager them or do mars and destruct their hand"
     
  5. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Yes, it will be attempted to counter. And those counterers will fail unless they find a card that can consistently be AS FAST or FASTER then Kingdra, and can do at least 70 damage, and has good HP. Until that card is found, Kingdra will be the BDIF.

    In mirror, yes, it's a matter of who gets better set up. Say Plater A gets a Baltoy start, and PLayer B gets Horsea/Candy/Kingdra/Water start. Guess who's gonna win? PLAYER B! And you need to take advantage of swarming with Kingdra... play Buck's or PP as much as you can for the 2HKOs. And HOPE you get lucky. Mirror may be very hard and fast.

    EDIT: Red Haired Shanks - I think you've forgotten that Kingdra is sniping the Bench, getting ready for a big KO by discarding Water Energy, and setting up multiple Kingdras. And who in their right mind would stall with Wailord for 4 turns of doing ABSOLUTLY NOTHING? You're giving Kingdra a chance to do 80 free damage, and probally more with Alakazam, etc. AND you are relying on Trainers to have this set up. Wailord only takes 4 turns to take down... sometimes three, if you played a 2 Buck's or PP. And how are you going to RETREAT Wailord? I guess you'll have to give Kingdra the free Prize... AND Kingdra is hitting your Bench for 20 for 4 turns in a row = 80 damage to the Bench. Now, how are you going to survive that, when Kingdra should have 2-3 Kings up? And, sorry, how do youn deck out in Kingdra? Not only do you run Claydol, BUT you have Aqua Stream. T2 Vire is flippy and, again, slower and easily taken care of by Bubble Coat. T2 Electrode is slower, too, and gives Kingdra a Prize, and is easily countered by Bubble Coat. Plus, Kingdra CAN OHKO a Trode... with a Buck's and a PP. Yes, Kingdra is good.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  6. Brawler

    Brawler <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    Nope.

    Kingdra outspeeds everything as of now.

    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    I don't know if Claydol is nessecary since it's already at mach 5 speed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  7. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Without Claydol, you run into consistency issues, and hand issues. It's just so much safer to run Claydol. Yes, Claydol MIGHT slow down a bit of consisitency, but nothing much. And it makes up for that by providing Cosmic Power.
     
  8. mrdraz07

    mrdraz07 New Member

    I'm not saying Luxray is all that great of a counter against Kingdra, but it's not as bad as ppl are making it sound. The new Shinx has an attack that grabs L from the deck and attaches itself, so Luxray can get rid of a Kingdra on turn 2. Luxray will see play because it's amazing against Uma more so than Kingdra.

    The best thing against Kingdra is something with a lot of HP (130 or more and not weak to water) that doesn't need a lot of resources.
     
  9. Blaziken 1111

    Blaziken 1111 Active Member

    Kingdra next season is the ape of last season. It is a speed based set up and can often donk but it needs support after the first few turns.
     
  10. Alazor

    Alazor Active Member

    The one thing I find with Kingdra is that it needs :water: energy in the discard and not just any old energy.
    So I mean compared to Infernape lv. X, this does only 80, while Infernape lv. x does 150.
    However Kingdra is faster and more flexible.
     
  11. Banette EX

    Banette EX New Member

    Kingdra is fast,but you dont need to counter the deck,you just need to BEAT the deck. Thats where people get mistaking,when you try to counter one deck,you slip and lose to it anyway.

    Outplay the person is how you win games,not just by countering. Yea it is super fast,but it can be beating. Empoleon spreads for 2 and does 30 to 2,can do 100 and is water,but its been beating. Same as with Kingdra,it only takes one and spreads,can do alot late game,but can be beating just by playing the deck you have and outplaying the other person.

    Hopefully this isnt like another SHiftry Ex CG(people thought it was the most broken card and just couldnt be touched then Raigeggs and other decks just ran over it.
     
  12. DarthPika

    DarthPika New Member

    This card is one of the reasons next format it going to be so good. My guess is that we will have Kingdra and AMU as the top decks and probably 1 other, then counter decks and tire 2 decks that are also good enough to actually good enough to win stuff. We will also finally see good red face paint decks again, as there will be plenty of cards to build them with, unlike this year.
     
  13. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    Another Kingdra thread? I think I'll wait and see what comes around during battle roads. Kingdra is a good card, but nobody knows what the metagame will be at Battle Roads. Kingdra/AMU are just the obvious deck ideas. Since neither really dominate like GG does, I expect to see a bunch of other ideas too.
     
  14. Rashad

    Rashad New Member

    kingdra would go so good with bronzong from MT and is going to replace claydol in my opinion well in kingdra decks that is
     
  15. Red Haired Shanks

    Red Haired Shanks New Member


    Wrong with the bench sniping part, Bastiodon Is always there to block that effect.
     
  16. DeathBerry

    DeathBerry New Member

    In Japan a deck was created to counter Kingdra and Blissey with their attributes at discarding energy. Lanturn/Tentacruel is a combo that has already been discussed and is probably one of the best counters against Kingdra available. Both attack for 0-1 energy. Tentacruel rips through Kingdra's discarding affect and deals damage while stacking energy meaninglessly on Kingdras. Lanturn hits for weakness and simultaneously deals bench damage. With Luxray available as well, I'd honestly prefer Lanturn/Cruel any day.
     
  17. pinkertonfan

    pinkertonfan New Member

    Kingdra is gonna pwn!!!!!!!!!!
     
  18. Brawler

    Brawler <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    Yeah, but then Kingdra kills the shinx who got the L energy.

    Now what?

    We usually play bubble coat.

    Luxray is not the kingdra counter.

    But it IS the amu counter.
     
  19. KAZUTO!!!

    KAZUTO!!! New Member

    Bastiodon - LOL! You don't run more then a 1-0-1 line, meaning it's much harder to get up then a 4-3-4 line of Kingdra. On top of that, Bastiodon or Sheild Fossil could easily be Prized. And you aren't gonna get 4 Kingdras Prized, now are you? :rolleyes: AND how are you going to get Wailord, Bastiodon, AND your main attacker set up by T4? You can get multiple Kingdras set up easily. But not a Stage 1, a Stage 2, and more Stage 1s or Stage 2s in 4 turns. You'd have to get a god start, and god draws to go with it.
     
  20. Brawler

    Brawler <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=


    Yes. That's why Kingdra's SO good.

    Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

    Of course it is. Everything it needs is just there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008

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