Laugh, Learn, and Love: Alakazam, the first step to stopping Bex

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Cyrus, Mar 22, 2004.

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  1. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    I'm not going to be so bold as to say that this ends B/ex altogether, because it doesn't! Blaziken ex will still be played, and will still be the clear-cut winner of State Championships all over the nation. This is just the first step to jogging people's minds...one of many ways which you can STOP the beast:

    Pokemon (21):
    4 Abra (Skyridge)
    1 Kadabra (Skyridge)
    4 Alakazam (Expedition)
    2 Skitty (Minor Errand-Running)
    2 Delcatty (Energy Draw)
    2 Magnemite (Random Spark)
    2 Magneton (Rare Dragons)
    4 Dunsparce (Sandstorm)

    Trainers (21):
    4 Rare Candy
    4 Oracle
    3 TV Reporter
    3 Desert Shaman
    3 Elm's Training Method
    3 Buffer Piece
    2 Warp Point


    Energy (18):
    4 Rainbow
    4 Double Rainbow
    6 Psychic
    3 Lightning

    Basically, if you haven't read the card, then shame on you! They're very easy to get, so go get some! *sigh* Nobody wants them anyways, and Expedition Alakazam is my favorite card :(

    Basically, the deck works exactly like your opponent's deck, only better. I'll explain how it counters and wins against the current archetypes:

    VS Blaziken/ex/Ninetails: The Biggest threat to Alakazam's well-being. Get out 2-3 Abra, Delcatty, and Magneton early game. Attach enough energy on one alakazam so that you can psymimic Volcanic Ash a benched ninetails or two. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE BUFFER PIECE ON, or You'll just get volcanic ashed back! Then, when the coast is clear, Make sure you and your opponent have the same number of energy cards on so that you can syncroblast for a OHKO.

    VS RAMBO: The obvious plan is to Dragon Burst with Psymimic, and then wait a couple more turns to Dragon Burst again. If he's out early game, you can totally wreck Amphy if you want to! =D

    VS Gadevoir/ex/Wobs: Basically, with buffer pieces and a deck of more than just psychic, you have the automatic advantage. They WILL be afraid to put Gardevoir ex on the field, 'cause then Alakazam will become a non-ex Gardevoir, which is a very lethal thing. If down to the wire, there's always syncro!

    VS Ampharos/ex: The one deck that seems to consistently beat MAD. A simple tech of meditite or hariyama will be brutal, though.

    VS Aggron ex/Wailord: Same thing, only I have bench damage to go off of!

    VS Kingdra ex: Magneton is what will clear the board for you, no doubt.

    VS Sceptech: This is sceptech, only faster and without ex's! In tight spots, buffer piece will come in handy, as will Green Heal! Plus, to get out of Poison ring, you could always psymimic a leftover Dunsparce's Strike and Run attack >_>""

    So, what do you all think of the deck? No, don't say, "Take out Buffer Piece...it sux0rz!!! roflz!!", 'cause that's your only defense against many guys out there. These will make or break games...I GUARANTEE it! here's a list of cards that I could slip in:

    -Alakazam (Skyridge; Amphy-like effect)
    -Wobbuffet (Extra ex Tech)
    -Hariyama (Aggron and Amphy tech)
    -Meditite (Aggron and Amphy tech...ESPECIALLY Aggron!)

    Just a couple of ideas from a guy who doesn't want to see Blaziken ex win so easily. I don't know if this is or isn't our best hope against the guy, but it sure is a good start...
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2004
  2. WeileMom

    WeileMom New Member

    Question on Psymimic...it says"Alakazam copies that attack including its Energy costs and anything else required in order to use that attack, such as discarding Energy cards."

    Does that mean you have to have Fire energy attatched to discard to attack with Volcanic Ash? I'm not too familiar with this card though I loved the old Alakazam way back when.
    Also, though it becomes a non-EX Gardevoir it still only has 100HP vs. 150HP and its weakness is Psychic. Wouldn't it come down to who attacked first?
    Just trying to understand the whole deck.
    ---Nicole
    WeileMom
     
  3. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    Oh, no problem! Very few people understand the deck well, and I doubt I can find a single person who knows it as well as myself (NOT to sound overly arrogant or anything, but as a few may know, mainly pals like Blazi-King and EvilCacturne666 who've seen the old incarnation in action, I've been running this guy ever since the Skyridge SBZ. Not as a main deck, but I've always had a spot on the shelf for him!!! =D).

    on the volcanic ash question: You would discard fire ENERGY, not fire energy cards. It's worded so well that you could just drop a DRE or regular rainbow on him, and BOOM!!! Psymimic Volcanic ash!

    On Ala vs Gardevoir ex: but you can easily get ahead in the race with Magneton. The only thing that could OHKO him is Gardevoir ex, and you could EASILY send out an Alakazam for a one hit knock out...good game, gardevoir :p
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2004
  4. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    Some reasons why this won't work. (keep in mind i have tried it)
    1) Blaziken R/S can just wreck you because it is just as fast if not faster and you only do 40 with your attack.
    2) You are relying on buffer pieces and when you run out its game.
    3) A smart player will not play a rayquaza and just MAIM you with Blaziken R/S until they get a torchic/combusken with enough energy to hit with blaze ex, so then they evolve, ko you.
    4) Alakazam is not BLAZIKEN, it does not have an energy getting pp like most competitive cards/decks today.
    5) There is no way this beats the following decks:
    Muk Ex/Anything
    Kingdra Ex/Anything
    Gengar/Fossils
    Aggron/Anything
    Ampharos Ex/Anything
     
  5. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Um wow. This decks entire principle is flawed in every way. It is arguably the worst attempt to stop Blaziken EX decks seen to date, for exactly every reason stated by Scizor and more. Go back to testing Wishcash, the success will be greater.
     
  6. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    Hmmm, I'll start with what you were mentioning to begin with: Blaziken-ing to death. A good way to counter that is, if they go down that path, you attach just a plain old rainbow and a couple energy to one, and Fire stream once,twice, or thrice. (of course with the ever-divine Buffer piece protection...makes me want a 4th in there! lol). Then, you go to using Syncroblast with either that Ala or a new one, depending on how much energy is on their current benched guy. Of ccourse they can always drop BEX whenever you're worn out, but there will be so much lobbing between the two that it's not even funny. Believe me, I've tested out your strategy, and that is where it gets very close. In that situation, the Alakazam player's cleverness decides the game, and that's what makes it so tough to play.

    VS Muk Ex: This is Muk Ex we're talking about! It's a speedy kind of guy, but Ala OHKO's, as could wobbuffet, and it flat-out sucks vs everything else, plain and simple.

    VS Kingdra ex: Magneton easily OHKO's it, and the common backup forces (Hariyama and Espeon) can't do much against an Alakazam OHKO.

    VS Gengar/Fossils: I do admit that this is quite the tough situation, but, before I go into how I'd tech it, LET ME EXPLAIN THAT NO ONE WILL PLAY IT WITH BLAZIKEN EX IN THE FORMAT!

    Phew! That, and the fact that Gengar still can't OHKO anything in the deck, save an abra or kadabra, which won't be out for long! I they'll just be wasting turns and turns and turns, without a single prize.

    VS Aggron ex (and commonly Wailord); That's why I mentioned the possibility of throwing Meditite or Hari in as tech. Put a little damage on Aggron ex, and it crumbles...that, or they're forced to retreat for Wailord, which is OHKO'd commonly by Magneton anyways.

    VS Ampharos: I already explained that it does bad without tech, so I would throw in a hari line or meditite. Room would be tight, but it wouldn't be a big deal.

    *huff-puff* That seemed more like a tech for every single deck than an actual rebuttal! Then again, Psymimic IS the tech!

    Glad you see my points, and thanks for replying!
    ~Patriarch

    RE Tyranitar: Lol, wait and see. This idea may fail, it may not. If I'm right, I can say that I told ya so. If I'm not, then likewise ;)

    But sheesh! That's a tad bitter. I know I'm a person you don't know, and it isnt' a big deal to rant and rant and rant, but there are better ways to word it than that, buddy =/
    I have been testing the deck VS MANY things, and it is working. You have no room to speak unless you're working on a counter, as well. Now, I actually wouldn't mind such a blatant insult from Jasonthepwnda or Rand0m, but go ahead: Post your new ideas to stop this guy, other than using Blazi ex itself. With every good idea, there are ten...no, a HUNDRED flawed ones. This may be one of the hundred, or it could be the one. The deck is most certainly not flawed, as it takes an open mind to play it. You have to know every card in modified like the back of your hand, or this deck won't work. I know you're a knowledgeable player, so use your knowledge so perfect the deck, not just ditch it outright.

    The point of this WHOLE forum is to not ditch ideas, but make them better! I don't want this to erupt into a flame war like the Wailord ex/fossil deck, which is a totally innovative and brilliantly-done idea in itself, so just PM me about your concerns, okay? Heck, if you want a feel for it, just build the deck yourself. You playtest every day, so playtest with this: an idea that, unlike Whiscash, doesn't suck, putting it bluntly!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2004
  7. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Eh, Im a blunt and rude person. If I like a deck alot I say it, if I hate it I say it. Im not one to be politically correct and sugar coat my responses. I feel its more important to be honest than lie to make someone feel better, no? I have no problem with people on the boards at all, and I get in flame wars with alot of them, and alot of times it ends up carrying over to IM. Almost every time the conversation mellows down and we have a good discussion and such. I don't hold grudges, if I argue with someone about a deck doesn't mean I don't like them or will harass them. I get caught up in flame wars and love them, but I am very spur of the moment.

    As for the deck there is one simply principle as to why the deck will not work, and I don't need to go into deck by deck match ups as it applies to almost every deck. In order to succeed in this format, you need energy abuse. Blaziken lets you attack extra energy every turn. This breaks the basic principles of the game of attaching 1 energy a turn. Gardevoir does the same. Notice a pattern? Those are the two best decks. Other decks do not have the speed to get powered as quickly, and cannot recover from a lost stage 1 or stage two with 3+ energy on them like these decks can. These decks abuse this, by knowing that even if they trade off say a Rayquaza for whatever your using, they can recover twice to three times as fast as you can and than utterly blow you away as long as they are set up, and a player can utilize that to win the game almost every time. Swampert is the same way but slightly less consistant as you need energy in your hand, not just in your deck or discard pile, which Gardy and Blaziken use with better synergy. Ampharos EX is a strong deck with strong attacks and such but does not rank up with Gardy or Blaziken because it still needs to be powered up manually. The addition of Elekid, which can use its attack to attach energy from the deck to one of your Pokemon, helps the deck get an energy advantage early in the game. This gives Amphy a chance to stay in the game energy abuse wise. Other decks use low energy cost attacks or abuse Boost Energy to win. Examples would be Kingdra, who can let itself get KOed and than just bounce back with a 2nd Kingdra and drop one energy and fight. Or Wailords which abuse Boost Energy. The entire key to winning in this format is the ability to bounce back. With the top decks being as strong as they are, you will be trading off pokemon and thus losing your energy drops. The best decks have huge advantages in rebuilding energy supplies. Alakazam has no way in which to do this and uses too much energy. Sure its good good attacks, and maybe if you ran it in Gardevoir it would do better, but without a way to attach alot of energy you will have alot of down time between Kazams, in which case you lose prizes. This format has two key concepts to it that are very new to it and did not exist in the other formats due to the presence of Double Gust and such. Prize Count and energy absue are HUGE. Alot of games come downt o two decks slugging it out and it becomes a war of attrition. Thats what the format is. Whoever takes the first prize often wins a game. This assumes both decks can keep repowering. Decks which do not have the ability to drop 2-3 energy a turn like Gardevoir and Blaziken are at a disadvantage and half way into the trading off of prizes and Pokemon, they short out and cannot keep up. It happens almost every game, and alot of decks can be judged purely on wether they can compete in a fashion like this. I will say I am a HUGE fan of your draw engine, especially Delcatty Magneton, I love that combo, and the deck list is far from bad. The deck is GOOD. Don't get me wrong. Great build, great method behind it and purpose, but in this format to remain competitive, you have to be GREAT, and meet hard standards which unfortunately too few cards can do. Enough cards like Aggron EX ( unnaturally strong and can tank with Metal ) Salamence ( can GOW which is BROKEn and defies the format in general ) and Muk EX ( which counters energy abuse ) can compete in the format, but alot else cannot.

    I think the lapse of error in your matching this with Blaziken is that you look at it 1 on 1. Yes, Alakazam can fight the cards 1 on 1 easily enough. But it wont be one on one. It will be whatever your deck can power vs whatever they can power, and they can power more faster, more often, and much more repeatedly. Your 1 Alakazam will be fighting an entire bench getting powered. That is where the flaws come in.
     
  8. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    Before I start talking, let me say two things: one, I'm not offended in the least you feel that way, and two, I'm very glad that I got the specific, nitty-gritty answer that I wanted. I didn't want you to sugarcoat, by any means. Just lose the unecessary sarcasm. It just has no place for progress, and this idea, whether or not it fails, is progress nevertheless.

    Now, let me explain that it just isn't one Alakazam vs a benchload of monsters...it's FOUR alakazams. You can find yourself down to the wire in many occasions, where you'll be mimicking the WEIRDEST of attacks, in the WEIRDEST of situations. Unless the opponent has the ability to OHKO with Blaziken, then there's loads of time to counter. The bench damage, admittedly, can get to me, so I may end up putting Briney back in the deck. But with Magneton, I can OHKO my opponent, given . Realize that they run a NASTY risk by returning to their initial strategy just to wear me out. They give me an even greater opportunity to win than with the Bex out.

    As for being able to break the 1 energy per turn rule, this deck has no way to do that, I admit. However, DRE offers a refreshing, powerful bit of speed. In many situations, it will come down to who wears out first: the Blaziken variant, or the Ala. However, I don't doubt Alakazam's potency, no matter how modest it is in the format. Where you lack in energy manipulation, you gain in strategy. Strategy is also what makes a deck work, and if you can properly use your opponent's attacks (a major piece of their strategy) against them, then there's little, if anything for them to do. However, odds are in my favor, because of the 3/4 Blazikens, there's a GOOD chance that one will be in the prizes. Blaziken swarming would be a challenge on their part, while I just briney up anything endangered or low on life.

    Besides, like I also stated, if I want a way to manipulate energy, I can always throw in a Skyridge Alakazam, especially considering that I have ALL that search in my deck to find it.

    There are always exceptions to the format. There's always a way to win with the unexpected, and this is definitely the most unexpected thing to be thrown out in a while. However, there's always a way to lose with the unexpected. So goes things, anyways...

    By the way, has anybody ACTUALLY been THAT desperate to run Whiscash? I know Truk was joking about it...but...*shudders*
     
  9. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Im a rude sarcastic sort of man though :p Ask anyone who knows me lol. Alot of times its for humor, just often at the expense of others :p Yep! I have low self esteem and need to act cool to make up for being fat ugly unpopular and dateless for life! WOO HOO! Ok, so thats not true, but it used to be, and my attitude just carried with me :p Sue me Hehe.

    As for energy manipulation, Skyridge Kazam does add it but not in the way of breaking the number attachable a turn which is what is needed. You can copy weaker attacks and odd attacks but they do not do enough to win. For instance, vs this list, all a Blaziken Ampharos Rayquaza deck needs to do is send up Rayquaza and keep feeding it energy. At best you hit it for 80, less since you won't have equal energy on it. Rayquaza pumps out 80-120 damage a turn, and can be easily replaced if it dies. Alakazam can be replaced doingw eaker attacks but they will be too easily shrugged off by repeated larger hits. thats just how it gets played. In this match up I do not see Blaziken EX being played down vs you in order to win. The Rayquaza's can usually do it on its own in most match ups.
     
  10. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    The Ray can be OHKO'd, but, as I've noticed easily, the deck is still too reliant on DRE's. A rainbow and DRE are enough to take out ray, and I'm playing plenty of those.

    It's been a long time, and I'm still trying to get the feel of everything that'd work well in the deck. Ways to fish out Special Energy, perhaps? Boost for added speed?

    Bah, btw, nothin' bad about a little humor, eh? (Remembers you running around madly as Mike Tyson, eating my children) XP
     
  11. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    I don't get it??

    What am I missing...

    The BAR player has effectively three energy attachments per turn against your one per turn. This is a race that you cannot win.

    I don't have Blazipest EX but isn't it 4 energy for its attack. without an early DRE that is a race that you will loose.. and Bex will hunt the pokemon that you are building (ie the one with the energy cards on it.) Once you are behind in energy you are lost? No?
     
  12. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    You know Johnny, I want this too work, but I think you specifically need Fire energy in the deck, just to counter Blaze.. Interestingly enough, this might be one of the few times Wally is better.... you could

    A) Start with Abra, evolve to Kababra, and turn 2 Wally to Kazam with upt to 3 ENergy on it....

    B) SARs for Abra, evovle to Kadabra, Wally turn 2 with up to 2 Energy on it.....

    Why I mentioned actual Fire energy, so you can get them back with Ton... Blaze decks will have you discarding your Ranbowesque energy to quickly for you to get an easy win, and a smart Blaze player will get you in the end....

    While Buffer Peice offers a little protection, note that that simply means 1 more energy on a Ninetails or Ray... not to hard to pull off

    My loast consideration is just a good all-around card in a non EX deck, Briney... but I supose with Bex running around, this card sees less play.....
     
  13. Cyrus

    Cyrus Iron Chef - Master Emeritus

    Buffer piece isn't in there to protect against Ninetails or Rayquaza, so much as save yourself from Ala getting OHKO'd by Volcanic Ash.

    As for a solid Stage 1 non-ex, I've been thinking Wailord for the longest amount of time. It can survive a Bex shot, and will save me if the player is smart enough (which there are PLENTY of smart players running Blaz variants) to go just straight Blazi to wear me out. But, should I run it, I'd almost be FORCED to run Meditite, or I'd get slaughtered by Amphy even worse.

    Last of all, Boost Energy looks solid enough to run here, should I put in Wailord.

    Also, their 3 energy to my one isn't that big of a deal, since DRE provides two, and Boost provides three (although it does get discarded). I really am serious about going Wailord/Ala/Del/Mag/Meditite. This is an even more techy deck than Sceptech!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2004
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