Mr.Mime - CL "Trick Reveal" Ruling Discussion

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by FJPonce, Mar 14, 2011.

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  1. FJPonce

    FJPonce New Member

    In the middle of a fun tournament, a player said to another: "Can I see your hand?" with Mr.Mime of Call of Legends on his bench. The opp player showed his hand and another player who was watching said: "Perfect, now he does not show his hand because he don't asked 'power of Mr.Mime' he only request to watch your hand.


    Everyone laughed then, but when we started to think, nobody was sure if this could be done in a Real Premier Tournament.

    In theory, you're just asking the opponent if he could show his hand in a gesture of courtesy. Could be considered a wrong move of the opponent the fact of having shown his hand.


    What do you think?
     
  2. ShuckleLVX

    ShuckleLVX Active Member

    If you were to try to pull this in a tournament, I would find it painfully similar to "Do you know what this does?", and come down on you pretty hard for it. Pretty blatant gamesmanship.
     
  3. Kayle

    Kayle Active Member

    Showing your opponent your hand is not a gesture of courtesy. Unless your hand is absolutely horrible and you're conceding, some game rule or effect should be the only reason you do this (Or you're playing a fun game).

    I'm not a professor or judge, but if I saw this in an authoritative position, the offending player would get Game Loss at best. Manipulative and unsportsmanlike conduct at its most prominent.

    Not that I am in a good position to decide if that's the appropriate penalty. >>"
     
  4. ApachePrime

    ApachePrime New Member

    As a Judge, I would come down on this hard. However, I think some responsibility goes to the other player. Here in Florida we teach our players to call out and respond to the name of powers or attacks, and if you don't know what something does to read the card. This isn't to say I would give less of a penalty, or issue penalties to both players, but I think some common sense has to be ignored for this situation to happen.

    In any other card game, this would happen once and then the entire room would know the person who did it. I think the same goes for Pokemon. Any person doing this would be able to do it once before their opponent warned anyone else they played. It's very counter "Spirit of the Game" and an all around under-handed tactic. This is akin to laying a Dusknoir DP next to your deck and telling your opponent "Oh, I have some translations." last season. Err on the side of caution and don't do it.
     
  5. cpeterik

    cpeterik New Member

    This is reallllly shady for a few reasons. Scenario:
    Player A wants to Hurl Into Darkness, but figures he needs to hit 2 Pokemon to make it a worth while attack. He has Mr. Mime on the bench and says "Can I see your hand?" Player B instinctively shows his hand, Player A does or doesn't, it is sometimes not important to Player B, but Player A wants to continue the facade. Player A sees that there is only 1 or zero Pokemon in Player B's hand, so he drops Spiritomb and announces "Spooky Whirlpool". After Player B draws his 6 cards player A says "Trick Reveal". "But I thought you already used it?!?!?" "JUDGE!!"

    The Judge would come over and more than likely rule against Player A and even issue a warning/penalty of sorts.
     
  6. Roarkiller

    Roarkiller Member

    Personally, I don't see a problem. If player B argues that player A did not activate mime's power, then just activate it. Besides, you never told us if player B answered yes or no.

    Technically, he's right, because even if mime is on the bench, and there was clear indication that he intended to use mime's power, he did not actually state that he was using mime's power. If I was a judge, I would give both players a caution and let it continue.

    However:

    This one is an obvious case of gamemanship, and even I would most likely give out a game loss, multiple prize loss at minimum if I'm feeling nice. After all, the penalty guidelines state that gamemanship/rules lawyering results in a gameloss no matter the level of tournament.
     
  7. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    Poke-Powers are derived from the Peoplemon! Nothing happens in this game without a card authorizing it to do so. Originate EVERY action to a card, and these mistakes don't happen.
     
  8. pokfan

    pokfan New Member

    Think about why would you show your opponent your hand! They could lay a judge on you!
     
  9. ShadowCard

    ShadowCard Active Member

    You're missing the point.

    The opponent in the OP saw the origin of the "Can I see your hand?" to the Mr. Mime. The problem is when the Mime owner tries to say that he was not using the Power.
     
  10. Roarkiller

    Roarkiller Member

    I'm pretty sure there's no rules that specifically prevents you from showing your hand to the opponent at your own will.

    Now, if it was done to intimidate the opponent ("I got a DCE and I'm gonna rush you so just give up already" kinda situation), that would be a different situation. Intimidation does fall under major infraction, and a game loss as the penalty.

    This situation is really shady at worst, because there are many factors that decide if the opposing player was attempting gamemanship or if he honestly believed that the opponent hasn't activate Trick Reveal yet. Without knowing the full situation, a caution to both players is the most I would do. Caution to player A for not declaring the use of the power, and caution to player B for a possible situation of gamemanship.

    I have, in fact, encountered a few times at my league where a lostgar player suddenly showed his hand, and the opponent asked, "Why are you showing me your hand?" The lostgar player simply rectified play by stating that he was using Trick Reveal, and play goes on as normal.

    Its up to the judge present to decide this, really.
     
  11. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    I completely understand why everyone laughed. I completely understand why it was funny.

    Just don't try such a thing at any sanctioned event. That kind of trick is unacceptable at any sanctioned event.

    I hope that everyone who laughed understands why the penalty would be severe. I'm not being a kill-joy in coming down hard on such a trick. It really is unacceptable in the context of a sanctioned event.

    At home between friends I'd probably laugh too.
     
  12. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    I'm saying that as a player to not allow your opponent to just say an action like "discard your energy," "i'll knock out luxray," etc, because NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING just "happens" in this game without a card to support it. Your opponent simply asking to see your hand is like your opponent saying "I'm going to roll this die to see if i can pick up toxicroak g." No one says that, they say "I'll use Leap Away," so that should apply to everything else, too.
     

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