multi/rainbow on Breloom

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by SlimeyGrimey, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. SlimeyGrimey

    SlimeyGrimey New Member

    If I have a multi or rainbow energy and two fighting energy attached to Breloom, would my attack do 60 or 70 damage? The exact wording of the relevant text is as follows:

    "While in play, Multi Energy provides every type of Energy but provide only 1 Energy at a time."

    I believe Rainbow energy has wording similar or identical to this.

    So does the card mean only one unit of energy but all types, or would it only provide one type or the other. It's not like I'm trying to provide two units of energy, just two types at one time.
     
  2. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

    70 damage. 1 "unit" of energy that provides "every" type, thus the rainbow/multi effect.
     
  3. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Just like one Rainbow on Southern Island Mew can both power the attack and allow you to choose any Basic Type to attack.
     
  4. SlimeyGrimey

    SlimeyGrimey New Member

    good, that's what I thought it should be.
     
  5. jdb728

    jdb728 New Member

    Exact QUOTE's from a chat log in the compendium(not like I said it was from team compendium or something):

    Sorry, but according to the official rulings, Rainbow energy(and Multi energy, since it has the exact same text as far as what energy it provides) only provides one type of NRG at a time.

    So sorry PokePop, if the Rainbow/Multi NRG is providing the NRG to use the attack, then the only type you could choose with that NRG card would be psychic.

    Hope this helps, Thanks for reading.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2003
  6. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    First off: those are not quotes from the Compendium.

    They are quotes from a chat log that is kept on the Compendium site, but they are not entries that were made in the Compendium. Probably because MTP later caught himself and corrected the ruling. I'm checking the Compendium now...
     
  7. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Here:
    Counting or noting the Rainbow Energy as a card of one color does not restrict a Rainbow Energy from using it's one unit of energy to pay for an attack cost of another color.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2003
  8. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Sorry I had to let this topic pop up again, but I found out that it looks like we all overhere play Rainbow/Multi energy wrong.
    I like to provide some examples so that I can translate it well to all players.

    A)Ampharos Exp - if there are 2 (L) 1 (f) and 1 rainbow on that one and I declare the rainbow as fire than if I do the lightning strike attack and choose for the 80 damage. I only throw away the 2 (L), because I declared the rainbow to be fire. Now this seems to be wrong, because rainbow/multi counts as all types of energy. So you should discard 2 (L) + the rainbow.

    Next one-
    B)I have a R/S sceptile (energy transfer PP) with a rainbow and multi on it. I do transfer the rainbow to my active wobbuffet (sandstorm). Wobbufet already has 2 grass basic on it and now it has 3 nrg. Is the rainbow from this moment counting as a psychic nrg or does it stay a grass?
    I did transfered in that case a "grass" energy.
    B1) If the multi nrg is the only one left on the sceptile it also can be transfered now?

    C) I have a Rayquaza EX with fire and rainbow (or multi) on it. I do the Dragon burst, then I can choose. Discard the rainbow (or multi) (then it counts as a lightning) or Discard the fire but in that case the rainbow (or multi) should be discarded to because it counts as a fire as well.


    What I should explain I think is that you can't lock a type of energy to a rainbow/multi.
    What is told by some people in Europe that once you declare a rainbow a certain type it stays that type untill the next players turn.
    Also if the attack cost (nrg symbols left of the text) says you need this kind of nrg and in the text you need another kind of nrg to increase or add damage than a rainbow/multi is also used for that (SI mew ruling).
    So you have to split up an attack in case you have a rainbow/multi nrg attached.
    First check if the nrg needed to do the attack is there.(rainbow/multi can be used) then read the text and if there is something to do with nrg rainbow/multi "changes color" to forfill that part of the attack.


    Hope I made my point clear, because it's a very important ruling which should be in the compendium EX as well with a few examples. So if I'm right I'm going to mail around these examples.
     
  9. TheCrossFormatKid

    TheCrossFormatKid New Member

    One doesn't have to declare a specific energy type when using rainbow/multi energy. It provides all energy at all times(with the exeption on multi when there are more than one special energy attached). For dragon burst, if you have a fire and rainbow, and choose to discard all fire, the rainbow is also discarded.
    For you ampharos scenario, the 2 L energy along with rainbow energy would be discard.
    For the wobb/sceptile, while on wob, it provides all energy TYPES, so it can provide the P energy for the attack. The multi can then be transfered as it is no longer a colorless energy, but an energy of all types.
     
  10. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    If I remember correctly, Rainbow Multi only provide 1 NRG at a time, but that 1 NRG is all basic types, or something to that eefect.

    In ex 1, Rain/Multi counts as Grass for E trans, then provides the Psy for Wobbers attack

    In ex 2, say you have 2 Fire and a Rain/Multi. The Rain/Multi would provide the Lightning, but must be discarded if you choose Light or Fire, because it provides both. There is no choice.
     
  11. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    The key point, as Spectreon has pointed out, is that THERE IS NO PLAYER CHOICE with multi/rainbow energy.

    Both cards only provide a single unit of energy but will satisfy any colour requirement. So if the text of an attack contains two seperate sentances ( with distinct energy colours), then both Rainbow and multi will claim to be that type of energy.
     
  12. NoPoke

    NoPoke New Member

    Now in defense of MTPat's answer...

    If I have an attack that requires :fire: :lightning :grass: as its attack cost. then a single rainbow and two colourless will not satisfy that attacks cost requirements.

    This is almost certainly where the idea that the rainbow's colour gets locked in when the attack cost is paid. But this is an incorrect conclusion that works most of the time, kind of like how Newton's laws of gravity work most of the time but have been superceeded by Einstein.

    Once the single Rainbow has paid for one of the coloured energy costs it is no longer available to pay for the other energy costs. This is not the same as being able to answer YES whenever the game asks the question 'Is there a :fire: or :lightning or :grass: energy attached to the Pokémon?'
     
  13. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    A couple good example of how Rainbow Works

    SI Mew. It provides the Psy for the attack cost (cost is P), then you choose a type of energy attached to Mew, well Rainbow is still providing all types, so you can choose any of them.

    or.....

    Shining Riachu.... I believe its attack cost is LLWW (Correct me if I am wrong). You couold have 2 Rainbow and 2 W attached. The Rainbow pays the 2 L. The rest of the attack basically reads, count the # of W NRG attached to S Riachu, this attack does 10x damage for each W NRG. The 2 Rainbow, even after being used as 2 L for attack cost purposes, still count as W NRG while doing the extra damage, allowing S Riachu to do 40 to a benched (2 Rainbow + 2 W)

    in each situation, the Rainbow is providing 1 NRG each towards attack cost, then still counting as other NRG types allowing it to meet requirements of attacks.

    Rainbow does not work when an attack or Power specifically say Basic NRG card.

    Rainbow does not count as any type until it is attached. Powers like Legendary Dogs/Birds of E-card can have these attached, without draw backs. Eeveelutions in SK cant heal becuase they dont count as a type until they come into play. The only exception to this rule that I know of (and not entirely sure why, or if it was ever reversed) is Neo2 Eevee. It may be slightly different story, but it lets you search for any type of Eeveelution.
     
  14. Rainbowgym

    Rainbowgym Active Member

    Thanks, so indeed there is a split up between energycosts (symbols next to text) and energy needed to do something else written in the text. As far as it concerns Rainbow/Multi it can "change" provided type of energy during these 2 fases of working out an attack.

    So there is no choice, no locking it just provides.

    And our of the example of Nopoke about needing 3 different types for an attack, For that the Rainbow/Multi says it provides only 1 energy at the time.

    Oeps we are really playing that card wrong overhere, and I call myself professor!!! (feels a shame).
     
  15. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Yeah, the thought on Eevee is that you attach the energy card then search the deck and since the card is already attached by that point, it is now providing colored energy.
    Remember, Eevee says to flip for all energy cards and search on heads without regard to whether Eevee has an evo of that color or not. So, but the time you attach and then flip and get heads, Rainbow is now giving out colored energy.

    That's how I justify it, anyway.
    I could live with that ruling being reversed. I'm not all that comfortable with it.

    You may notice that a lot of the delayed rulings that have gone to Japan deal with these types of issues. Even they go back and forth on how to consider these issues and when they toss us an answer that would cause a major upheaval in dozens of other rulings, we toss it back and ask them are they really, really, really sure.
    They have a tendency to answer based on the one card combo and not consider the impact to other scenarios.
     
  16. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    You have to get away from the phrasing of "changing" what energy it is providing.

    It always provides all colors. It's a rainbow. For the energy cost, it's providing a unit of energy.
    For the attack effect, it's just being counted (and/or discarded). Since they are two different functions, there is no problem.
     
  17. Spectreon

    Spectreon New Member

    Does Japan have anything like Compendium? If they do (assuming they do) you need to hire a translator to read it/explain it. As long as it takes, and as infurating as it is to get rulings from Japan. Not like there are a lot of people just loafing around in America that knows Japanese, but it is just a passing thought....
     
  18. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    I've never heard of there being anything like that.
    The most I've seen have been some FAQ-like documents.
     
  19. GymLeaderPhil

    GymLeaderPhil New Member

    Q. For rulings sake, can we say that you must determine the type of energy an energy card provides during the main phase of play (the Pokemon Powers, Retreat, etc. part) of play and can be switched at any time? [Ed.Note: Specifically with regards to Ditto's "Transform" power that affects energy types]
    A. There is no such thing as a "main phase" in Pokemon. You cannot change it during the attack sequence is the easiest way to rule it. (Apr 5, 2001 WotC Chat, Q250)

    So would this quote from the Compendium be incorrect now?
    -Phil
     
  20. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Not at all.
    That refers to Fossil Ditto and with Fossil Ditto you DO choose what color energy a card is providing!
    Fossil Ditto does NOT treat energy cards like Rainbow Energy.
     

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