My experience at the Pokemon ZOO(Center) CC Report: A must Read

Discussion in 'City Championships' started by JohnnyBlaze, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. JohnnyBlaze

    JohnnyBlaze New Member

    I am very tired right now driving 5 hours: 2 1/2 each way to go to the Pokemon Center for their CC. We had a carload of 5 people: 3 in the 15+ and 2 in the 10 and under. I will have a more detailed report tomorrow with deck list and matches. But let me start out by saying this is the most horrible experience by far that we have had involving the Pokemon TCG.

    Let me list what was wrong and what could be done to make it better:

    1.) Like I said in my topic it was a Zoo like atmosphere. Utter chaos. For a major City Championship I would of expected alot better. Not to mention that it was held at The Pokemon Center. I know what others are like we attended 3 different City Championships in 2 different States in the last 3 days. The other 2 were very organized and professional and had knowledgeable judges and players. It was very loud because of certain players being rude and obnoxious, the concourse is no place for acoustics, and couldnt hear a thing. It is one thing to be excited for an event, but some of these players were just downright rude and obnoxious. A parental permission slip of some sort or even parents staying to control their unruly kids. I mean in a way its good that kids were here playing and not ramming the streets but lets have a little respect for the environment and other people that are around.

    2.) My 2 -10 and unders were placed in the 11 - 14 age group. And 1 11-14 year old player was placed in the 10 and under division. I dont have exact numbers but there were at least 50 participants and enough to support three age groups. As a matter of fact there were 3 different age groups. I did bring this to the attention of the person working the laptop and he suppossedly reassigned all seating arrangements for the 1st round. So instead of starting at 11:00 am we started close to 1:00 p.m. Then when the reassignments were made my son and his friend were still placed with 14 year olds to play. Again I noticed this and went up to the organizer and he said that they are going to have to play this way and will be matched up accordingly the next round. Guess what the whole 5 rounds they played kids in the 11-14 age division. I dont have a solution to this one so somebody please help. Maybe more competent staff to run tourneys?? After 2 losses both kids were on the verge of tears and very upset. Luckily my 9 year old son won 3 matches and ended up 3-2 in the 11-14 age division.

    3.) They were calling out names for pairings. Just imagine you have 25 tables and each match with both players names were called out loud instead of posting pairings. Supposedly there was no paper to put in the printer. Then later there was a printing problem. If you ask me I think it is suspicious because the players that won are regular league players. There was no way to tell or verify your ranking between rounds and after a match there were no slips to sign to verify the win.

    4.) Little knowledge of current rulings or how to even run a large scale tourney. After the fiasco with the pairings, I offered to help and showed my Professor Card but the organizing staff were like "Whatever, who are you sort of attitude"

    Just a very very poorly run event. I will be contacting PUI regarding this. There is no way that this current staff can run States in NY, if indeed that States will be held at the Pokemon Center. Pokemon Center does seem to be the most logical place to hold States.
     
  2. Flare Starfire

    Flare Starfire New Member

    Yuck, Blaze.....

    Sounds like the mexico CC fiasco had a twin brother here, eh? I know we've been privledged by excellent TOs like BJ and Pokemebob to keep things running here in MA....just makes you appreciate their hard work that much more.

    That said...come to states in MA! =D We'd love to have ya!

    Flare
     
  3. BJJ763

    BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Staff Member

    Wow! Do you know if pokemebob and crew were there? I know he's been to a couple of events there and has had the same comments. Sad when the Center has such a lousy tournament.

    Oh and pokemebob was the TO for the Auburn CC and Tom Shea (who's not on the board) is the TO for the Milford CC. I was just there to help them out in whatever way i could.
     
  4. JohnnyBlaze

    JohnnyBlaze New Member

    BJJ - No PokeBob and the crew werent there. I asked Bob at the Milford event if he was going and he said that his kids had a lousy time too the last time they went for the Dragons Prerelease.

    Flare Starfire - Thanks Mike for the support.
     
  5. PokeMeBob

    PokeMeBob New Member

    PCNY Tourney

    First of all, please do not associate me with the CC at PCNY. I was not there!!! I asked my entourage of 4 players (Ben, Nick, Nick, and Nick) that I travel with if they were interested in participating at the CC and possibly the upcoming prerelease at the Pokemon Center. What I received was a resounding NO.

    The printer problem is new, as I was the one who donated the printer to the PCNY League a few months ago just because they were screaming out names for pairings and there was no way to verify your record between rounds. Unfortunately, the printer concept did not last too long.

    As for helping run the tourneys, while I have assisted in the past, it was “frowned upon” by the paid staff to have some outsider helping. I have not been permitted to be a judge, nor have my ruling opinions (supported by two other card-carrying and knowledgeable Pokemon Professors) been heeded, even when the “judge” was clearly incorrect. I’ve been told the store requires the judges to be employees (rather than knowledgeable).

    I have watched, and reported, kids cheating out in the open. But to no avail. I actually sat and watched a match during our last visit between one of the active PCNY League Members who was accused of cheating in a previous round. After the “judges” assured the opponent and his father that this was surely not the case, I observed the boy (and reported his actions to the “judge”) clearly and intentionally cheating no less than a dozen times during the match. This is unfortunately the atmosphere of tournaments and League play at the Center.

    THE PCNY TOURNAMENTS SHOULD BE THE PREMIER VENUE IN THE COUNTRY. Instead, in spite of John’s best intentions and efforts, the events seem to turn out poorly. I have offered my assistance and suggestions as to how to improve the situation; there is enormous potential for improvement by employing some rather simple procedural changes if someone would simply listen. My crew and I love going to New York: to the Pokemon Center and to the center of the universe (Toys R US at Times Square). Unfortunately, we do not love going to tournaments there any more. This needs to change! With the effort of just a few knowledgeable and concerned individuals, this can change if PCNY and PUI permit it. All you have to do is accept our help.
     
  6. SteveP

    SteveP New Member

    JohnnyBlaze, sorry to hear the Pokemon Center tourney was a fiasco. Didn't your kid finish first at some other CC? If so, that should be some consolation.

    Man, two hours late is terrible. For our Ft Collins CC, we did a complete deck check of the 25 players and STILL only started a little over an hour after registration started. Were they doing deck checks at the Center?

    Regarding no printouts, that's not the Pokemon Center's fault. Ya gotta complain to PUI about that one.

    Regarding where States are held, I've heard that PTOs are getting preference. So, if there's another PTO in NY, I see no reason that the NY SC can't be held somewhere else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2004
  7. JohnnyBlaze

    JohnnyBlaze New Member

    Bob Im not sure why you said that but I said that you were not there. Only that you have been before and had similar experiences.

    I feel the smae exact way. It is awesome at the Pokemon Center and Toys-R-Us but the tournaments are horrendous.

    Steve - In fact he did finish 1st at the Auburn CC. He then played in the Milford CC and purposely gave the match to another kid for the trip. We also attended the Pokemon Center because we hve no place to play right now and we need the experience. The kid that won the Pokemon Center 10 and under also won the previous day at the Staten Island CC. This is what someone from the Staten Island CC shared with me. Once the list comes out I think that will verify that information.
     
  8. babayaga

    babayaga New Member

    That was Calvin he conceded to, and that was so sportsmanlike of him to do that! You're sure doing something right as a dad!

    Sounds like the Pokémon Center is the black hole of the Pokémon tournament universe. :nonono: At least in the US.

    regards,
    :unknown-b
     
  9. BJJ763

    BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Staff Member

    Hope it wasn't something i said too - i know you've been there before (didn't know you tried to help, thought you went to play or just bring your gang) and wondered if you went again based upon the experiences you've shared with me (and if you did go, then we'd have 2 people mailing PUI about this).

    Nothing makes up for poorly run event.
     
  10. JohnnyBlaze

    JohnnyBlaze New Member

    Ok here is the decklist I used with a brief report.
    B/A/R
    Pokemon – 27
    4 – Dunsparce
    4 – Torchic
    2 – Combusken
    4 – Blazikin
    1 – Mareep
    2 – Flaffy
    2 – Ampharos
    2 – Skitty
    2 – Delcatty
    2 – Rayquaza Ex
    2 - Wobbuffet

    Trainers – 15
    3 – Rare Candy
    3 – Oracle
    2 – TV Reporter
    2 – Copycat
    2 – Professor Oak’s Research
    2 – Warp Point
    1 – Town Volunteers

    Energy – 18
    12 - Fire
    3 – Lightning
    3 - Multi (Wobby)

    I switched my deck around since Auburn and included the Wobby with Multi Energy. It helped in some instances but I had a better record with the way I ran the other deck.

    Round 1 vs Ken
    Ken was running Typhlosion EX. He was set up by 3rd turn. But while he was setting up my Torchic and then Combusken already dished out 50 damage to it. I had built up a Ray and he had no bench. Once he killed my Combusken my Rayquaza ko’d the Typhlosion.

    Record 1-0
    3pts

    Round 2 vs. Lawrence
    I know Lawrence from some other tournies that I have been to. He ran the Staten Island event and wanted to participate in this event. He was running Blaziken with Delcatty, Zangoose, and Ditto. He was able to get up 3 Blazikens by the time I got up 2. It was a back and forth match but his colorless destroyed Rayquaza and the Blazikens beat down my Blazikens. I did manage to get 4 prizes but Lawrence ended up winning.

    Record 1-1
    3pts

    Round 3 vs. Alex
    Alex was running Hitmonchan EX, Kabutops EX, Zangoose, Solrock, and the Skyridge Kabutops that stops evos. I started with Wobby and his Hitmonchan couldn’t do a thing. I take the 1st 2 prizes and get my combo going. He takes 2 prizes with good dice rolls on Kabutops and Crystal Shards my Rayquaza but by trhen I had another Wobby built and the Firestarter – Energy Connect combo I cleaned up on prizes.

    Record 2-1
    6pts

    Round 4 vs. Christian
    Christian was running Gardevoir EX, Gardevoir, Wobbuffet, Espeon, and Wynaut. He took very long turns. The game was good going back and forth and with prizes tied 2-2 a worker came over and told us that there were 5 minutes left. I had the advantage with a powered Wobby and he had only a Wynaut and 2 Gardevoir EX left. He was stalling forever it seemed by keep on counting his discard pile and asking how many cards I had. He then used copycat and coincidentally spilled his deck. All of a sudden the main organizer called time. I tried to protest as next turn My Wobby would have knocked out Gardevoir EX but to no avail. It ended in a tie.

    Record 2-1-1
    7pts

    Round 5 vs. Julia
    I know I need this to at least place 4th and win 9 packs. She had a Crawdaunt and RK9 and Salamance holo. She took early prizes with RK9 and flipping heads to keep the Fire Energy to kill my 50 HP pokes. I did build a Rayquaza to kill the RK9. She then had a #3 holo Crawdaunt built. I thought I was safe with Ray’s resistance to Water but it was ruled that the +10 damage from Crawdaunt’s attack is taken after applying weakness and resistance I thought it was before. I try to argue but the judge overrules. She gets a Salamance built and resists my Fire Pokes. She has 1 prize when time is called and she is so adamant about winning that she whines and whines to the judges and they let her take an extra turn to get her last prize.

    Record 2-2-1
    7pts

    We then leave and vow never to go back.
     
  11. Feraligatr

    Feraligatr New Member

    JohnnyBlaze sorry to hear about the bad experience at Pokemon Center. It is a great place to visit but it sounds like something needs to be done about the judging. Especially with the Crawdaunt...

    Poké-BODY: Power Pinchers
    As long as Crawdaunt is your Active Pokémon, when any of your Active Pokémon does damage to the Defending Pokémon, the attack does 10 more damage (before applying Weakness and Resistance).

    Hard to understand how they could of ruled how they did since the printing on the card is pretty self explanatory.
     
  12. Yoyur right blaze. It did seem horrible. I talked to you last night and heard what you said but this is out of contriol. Im sorry the pokemon center couldent pull off a better tourney. i was at the center 2 times and it alweays seemed calm to me so this is a shocker. Like mike said:
    Looks like the mexico fioassco has a twin brother
    I hope you do better at the states and have a better time john.
     
  13. mozartrules

    mozartrules New Member

    Why does this make a difference when we are talking resistance (It is of course important if the opposing player has weakness). (50 + 10) - 30 gives the same net 30 damage as (50 - 30) + 10. There would be a difference if she had had a Crystal Shard (which is why feeling safe might have been too optimistic, but one might argue that Crystal Shard is unnecessary when playing Salamance). If she had a Crystal Shard you would have been knocked out whatever the interpretation.

    What did I miss here?
     
  14. bullados

    bullados <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?

    www.pokemonzeo.com

    Dunno why, but I think that JohnnyBlaze is gonna be just a little bit upset over this, read the last 3-4 paragraphs of the first post. You'll see what I mean...
     
  15. JohnnyBlaze

    JohnnyBlaze New Member

    Bullados - I read it and Im not sure what part you think would be upsetting? The one John he is referring to is not actually me. That is John H. from Pokemon Center that was involved in a hit and run with a taxi cab and he has a fractured skull. All our prayers go out to his well being and recovery.
     
  16. bullados

    bullados <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?

    I thought that you'd be upset that he made no mention of what you did, even after you brought it to his attention. meh, what do I know anyhow?
     
  17. Bolt

    Bolt New Member

    First off, As a judge of that tourney, I'd like to apologize for any problems that we had running the tourney, such as the big age group dilemma and any rulings mistake made by judges. Also, please don't take this post as a personal attack on anyone, I am only trying to defend what I can to the best of my ability.

    You're right here. Some people are just really loud, nothing can be done about that. The concourse isn't the best place to hold a tournament, but there really aren't other options so close to the Center itself.

    At the first go at pairings, there were a lot more problems with age group pairings. We redid it to try and eliminate some problems, but nothing can be done perfectly when you're missing a TO and not doing everything by pen and paper...which nobody has the time or patience to do.

    The pairings were only yelled out during the first round, while we tried to get the printer problem fixed. As for results, each judge went around and recorded the winner themselves after asking both players who won. There was no way to print out match result slips with no working printer.

    I don't know about this one, I had no influence in the decision. I'm sure your offer to help was appreciated, though...I really can't see any of the other judges addressing anybody with that attitude, although our replacement TO was very stressed out over all the problems we had.

    Again, I dont want this to seem like a personal attack, but she didn't complain because she lost or because she was adament about winning. She complained to me that you had started stalling in the last minute, taking up most of the time. I told her that the game was already over, and called due to time. She went up to the TO and I assume that he allowed her to finish the turn she didn't get.

    Also, I'd like to address the claims that the judges were biased toward regular leaguers. This is horridly absurd. I myself caught a few of the normal league players misplaying cards and I called them on it.

    I'm sorry that there were problems with the age groups, but we really weren't prepared for all the problems that occured. Please don't hold the judges at fault for trying our best in extremely tough circumstances. Please do let Nintendo know how things ran, maybe they can hook the center up with some better tournament running software. (And about the DCI Reporter issue, Nintendo allowed us to use it since the replacement TO wasn't trained in the Nintendo one.)

    >Bolt
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2004
  18. SteveP

    SteveP New Member

    The mis-pairings between age groups was certainly a BIG NO NO, and completely avoidable, especially if DCI Reporter was used. Either the players' age groups weren't entered correctly (could be either the players' or recorder's fault), or the recorder didn't do his job by turning on the Age-modified option in Reporter.

    Too bad the original TO didn't show. Hopefully, the TO had a good excuse. Otherwise, the original TO was absolutely responsible for any events caused by his NO-SHOW and perhaps his failure to provide adequate resources (ie., enough staff, printer).

    Regarding complaints about rulings and attitudes, that's often a very subjective thing. You can never be sure with only one side of the story.
     
  19. Bolt

    Bolt New Member

    The original TO is the aformentioned John, who was involved in an unfortunate car accident. Only one out of the remaining 4 of us had any experience at all in using DCI reporter (or any other reporter). I can't make excuses as to why the age groups were not right. We did what we had the know-how to do at the time. When John gets back, I'll talk to him about the problems we had and see what we can do to avoid future problems.

    >Bolt
     
  20. GymLeaderPhil

    GymLeaderPhil New Member

    Okay, just to clear some things up...

    When you say "Nintendo", do you mean Pokemon Center Staff or Pokemon USA? Nintendo has no place in Organized Play logistics and does not directly communicate with players, judges, or organizers. The individual who allowed you to do that is at a severe fault. Please understand that using Wizards of the Coast's copyrighted software for a sanctioned and PUI supported event results in an immediate threat to the PTO's position with Pokemon USA and a potential legal suit if Wizards of the Coast/DCI learns that you were using their software. NOBODY IN A SANCTIONED TOURNAMENT SHOULD EVER USE THE DCI REPORTER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
    -Phil
     

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