Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

NO experienced judge needed, even not for CC

"Fabsman - It's all connected. Judges, TO's PTO's, players and sales. "

So that's your excuse for dragging every discussion into a Europe's relation with the rest of the world?

I'm sorry, but I've had enough of this. Saying everything is related is nice,-in a six degrees of Kevin Bacon sort of way. An interesting point, but not wholly useful. We don't need a reminder of how people in third-world countries are starving every time we see food, and we don't need to have people saying how OP or whatever is screwed up in their country every time a topic that presents the the tiniest disparity comes up. It's rediculous.

At first i was willing to listen. Then I heard so much I tried to ignore it. Now i'm just plain disgusted at what this has turned into. You're abusing a communications medium by trying to make all of us feel really bad when there's little to nothing we can do about it. This has to stop. For your sake, the game's sake, and this board's sake, this has to stop.

That's how I see it.
 
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'scuse you, Yoshi...but this WAS a "Europe thread" from the beginning: notice who the topic starter is? If anyone's post was off-topic, it was farbsman's (..no offense meant, Derek); may I suggest you read the threads you're interested in, and skip the others, if you're 'tired' of hearing it? Especially since PokePop gave his approval to this discussion?
PokePop: said:
Rainbowgym: You have our full support to bring issues like this out. It was when it bled into many other topics that it was an issue.

As far as this issue goes, get it all out here. This does not bode well for international and people do need to see this.
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'mom
 
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That was uncalled for Yoshi. I have to agree with 'mom. There has to be a place to get this out.
This is not, for example, a thread on Target promos being dragged off topic. This is a topic that was started to discuss just this situation. And a situation that, to be frank, turns my stomach.

A CC at a house and meanwhile Rainbowgym can't buy a League kit because her store doesn't order from the OP-distributor!

By the way, rainbow, you communicate very well in english. The American phrase you were looking for (present tray) is "get things on a silver platter".
 
Thank you MOM and Pokepop

Yoshi, if we are trying to make you feel bad and there was no reason for it, why are you feeling bad.
Why are you disgusted, because you meaby are afraid all the good things happening to you are taken away because of people living far from you bed want the same goodies and you don't like to share.
You better become distributor overhere, they have the same vocabulair as you : Shut Up, I feel well and if you don't it's not my concern. You fit perfectly in their team.

(I know this is off topic, but there is no excuse for that kind of attidtude against me)
 
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Now on-topic

I think what would really help is that PTO's and TO's in the USA all ask from POP/PUI that arrrangements,benefits, support regarding Premier events is going to made public and so transparant that even a not skilled distributor can understand them.

Also I think POP/PUI by themselves should be more alert on getting differences solved.
Not throwing everything to the distributor account. They have responcebility too.
If you announce an equal slate of programs, you have to forfill that. Even when you must correct the distributor because skilled profs notice and mail differences.

Only a solid base can be worked out that way.
Everything happening at this time is only short term fixes.
 
SD PokéMom said:
'scuse you, Yoshi...but this WAS a "Europe thread" from the beginning: notice who the topic starter is? If anyone's post was off-topic, it was farbsman's (..no offense meant, Derek); may I suggest you read the threads you're interested in, and skip the others, if you're 'tired' of hearing it? Especially since PokePop gave his approval to this discussion?

'mom[/color]
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I don't see it that way.

If you look at this post carfully, you'll notice a progression from on-topic to a smattering of nearly every problem faced by the Europeans. As a result, those of us who may have wanted to talk about requiring head judges to b professors or othe qualified individuals (and the pluses and minuses thereof) are shut off. The Europeans are monopolizing topics and taking discussion away from what the rest of us want to talk about. Even if you view this as a legitamate topic for general European discussion, the problem is much bigger than this thread.

I'm sorry if that was terse, but that's how I feel.

Anyway, attempting to get back to what I wanted to add. Although I agree that professors should be used where possible, there are a number of factors (such as areas without professors) such that I cannot see requiring professors as judges until Professor Testing resumes.
 
Then, with all due respect: start your own thread.

The thread started out discussing how INTERNATIONAL OP is not being 'required' to draw on the professors/judges in the area, and how everything having to do with OP there is in the hands of the distributors. There IS no seperation of the topics when discussing international OP because of the way POP saw fit to set it up; right now, OP here and OP 'there' are like comparing apples and oranges.

'mom
 
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PokePop said:
That was uncalled for Yoshi. I have to agree with 'mom. There has to be a place to get this out.
This is not, for example, a thread on Target promos being dragged off topic. This is a topic that was started to discuss just this situation. And a situation that, to be frank, turns my stomach.

A CC at a house and meanwhile Rainbowgym can't buy a League kit because her store doesn't order from the OP-distributor!

By the way, rainbow, you communicate very well in english. The American phrase you were looking for (present tray) is "get things on a silver platter".
Click to expand...

I don't like being mean. It hurts me to say what I said. I agree, the Europeans need a way to get people to understand their problems.

That's not going to be achieved by the present course of action, in my view. I have never said that the Europeans deserve what's been foisted upon them. However, the way they're going about trying to do something is counterproductive.

However, since yelling seems to have started this problem, and yelling doesn't seem to be stopping it, I will start my own thread.

Truce.
 
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Anyway, attempting to get back to what I wanted to add. Although I agree that professors should be used where possible, there are a number of factors (such as areas without professors) such that I cannot see requiring professors as judges until Professor Testing resumes.
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Again you showed that you are not reading very well.


Did I say professors should be required?
I said that in Canada a prof was not allowed to Judge and this was decided by PUI.
So for Canada PUI/POP decided that a Prof should be judge and to me they answer that it's not required.
That's one of the things I mean when I'm talking about differences.

If you decide for one country non-profs cannot judge, than you should make that restriction for all countries.

I don't think at this moment a Prof should be a hard term for judging, but in case there are profs who are willing to organize anything like league or prerelease or CC they should have the change and worldwide.

I just feel something for international rules, but that means that these rules should count for everyone.
that's were POP/PUI should work on, and not how it's going now.
They send you the International OP League and TO handbook with rules, and if you forfill all the rules sudenly there is a distributor changing them. If you protest on that change, than PUI/POP is not home and tells you to fight this out with your distributor. So why sending a handbook with rules if no-one is obligate to follow those rules.
 
checks the floor rules.....

Judge Responsibilities
Judges are expected to administer impartial rulings, and assist the tournament organizer and head judge in running a quality event. Judges are expected to encourage sportsmanlike behavior at all times.

Head Judge Responsibilities
The head judge serves as the final arbiter of all rulings and rules interpretations for that tournament. The head judge is chosen by the tournament organizer before the event, and is ultimately responsible for making sure that all participants abide by the rules set forth in this document. The head judge is also responsible for reporting players who are caught cheating at their events to the Pokémon Organized Play staff.

Organizer Responsibilities
The tournament organizer is in charge of the non-game elements of the tournament. The organizer is in charge of finding a well-lit and safe event location, providing appropriate staff, sanctioning their POP tournaments, submitting the results of those tournaments in a timely fashion, and distributing the prizes for the event.


- the organiser has to provide 'appropriate' staff.
- Head Judge ensures play follows the POP OP Floor rules.
- Judges administer impartial rullings.


well apart from determining what 'appropriate' means it appears that knowledge of the game rules is not required from the judges. :( There is a possible sanction that TO priveledges can be removed by POP but I doubt that POP would levy that penalty against any master distributor.

I do think that it would be difficult for someone with very limited knowledge of the game to be impartial.
 
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Anyway, attempting to get back to what I wanted to add. Although I agree that professors should be used where possible, there are a number of factors (such as areas without professors) such that I cannot see requiring professors as judges until Professor Testing resumes.
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yoshi101,

what areas are there without professors who will travel? Do we have a list? Could it be that we are assuming this to be so? Or is it that now PUI has taken the list down; still no answer to my email asking why that was done btw, we just can't tell anymore?
 
NoPoke - I even don't think PUI will kick the Head OP of a country out the program.
But if they are not required to follow a TO handbook, why should I.

Our National Distributor is as PTO sanctioning tournaments done from a private residence (home).
They don't answer an email I did send with questions regarding to coming up prerelease.
I asked some general things 2 weeks ago then after a week a asked almost the same questions to POP INT.
NO answer, only the one posted above in this tread and that was not even something I asked.

I only asked for straight rulings worldwide, not for benefits.
If Profs in the US can start a league, then profs all around the world should have this change.
If a profs is not required for a CC, than that also counts for Canada. (Canada was not allowed to let a ex-prof judge at their CC).
If the pricepool for a premier event is 1 box , 1/2 box etc. than that should be the pricepool everywhere around the world were a CC is played.

And the argue that it cost a distributor outside the US more money is not our concern.
Some of them were so greedy to get that status, so no it looks like the really have to invest in this game they are changing general rules.
PUI should not agree on that.They should say, look you claimed to be Head OP the last years that's why you wanted to extent this contract. You could know that being Head OP is involded giving away suppport, This is the pricestructure we are handled for this kind of event, so you do the same.

But than there is the real fact, most National Distributor don't know a thing about OP. They grabbed all the benefits for years without really doing anything for the players.

I only can think of one thing.
To post a petition at this board, with a request to all visitors of this board.
If they all want to equalty world wide, that POP should demand every National Distributor to follow the tournament set-up, pricepool, support, giving all TO's the change to organize events and make that everyone can do so by sending each TO a form to apply (or make an on-line form).
That people are not excluded from leaguematerials or organizing Premier Events unless they have proven not to be able to. And that proof is not saying I don't like that person so they don't get the change.

I think if there is a petition with "autographs" from players, PTO, TO's from all around the world, but especially from US citizen, meaby they awake and act responsible.
 
Rainbowgym said:
You know were I'm most afraid of.
I have a few very very very good players, but if the distributor is in charge at the National Championship. I think they are not going to be judged/treated fair, because they are my players.
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The only thing I can reccomend is that you go prepered to help the TO/PTO

Bring your sugar keep the vinegar home.

I dont know if you have a relationship with the TO/PTO/distributer yet. If you do and its bad its time to make one or repair it. You can be prepaired to help make it a better event. Just smile , smile , smile...


For instance.........

Onve upon a time there was going to be a super battle zone.

It was announced at a card shop in a town south of this areas big city. I had played there with my son in their league. I was aware that they didnt have enough space. The league leader was nice but not informed and not a profesor. (I was a prof... but really still a NooB)

So I started calling the store and asked info about the event and told them I was bringing several players. I called again a week later and told them to expect 20 players from another league we attend. The owner asked if that was truely a good count. I told him that the last battle zone event had 40+ players. He got to work and got a space next door to play. Then I spoke with the best Professor I knew and told him my impression was that the store wasn't prepered to deal with the event. He and I prefered to play but decided to do whatever was necessary to make the event better for the players. We both showed up with prof shirts in the car. Rules and copies of the compendium, extra cards to help new players get decks legal etc.
We arrived and watched them start to sink and introduced ourselves as "Official Pokemon Judges" and kindly offered assistance. They took the help. My friend judged. I helped register people etc (I got to play :) ) The event was better for everyone.

The moral of the story is you can make a diference if you try....
Maybe start a relationship wwith the distributor.. or fix it.

Good Luck
 
NoPoke said:
I do think that it would be difficult for someone with very limited knowledge of the game to be impartial.
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The ability to be impartial and knowledge of the game are in no way related.

A judge with no knowledge could be trying to make the best decision but still screw up a ruling. Thats just a bad situation. Not impartiality.

I make it clear to all players that I am the judge and point out my sons to the room before we start play. I also emhasize that any plyaer not liking a decision by me in a game with my son may freely ask for other input. The only persons to ever ask for that is my son as I tend not to be impartial with him. I seem to always fear screwing another player and lean towards ruling for his oponent.
 
Still should not be allowed to judge if your sons are in the tournament. That is the only way to make it fair and leave no doubt about it
 
I don't agree, especially as many Master Professors/Professors/Judges are parents of players. Just how many children of judges are highly ranked? Very, very few, if any, is my guess...

I don't know ANY parent/judges who don't hesitate to recuse themselves and have another judge take over when it comes to a ruling concerning one of their kids...and if there was a rule forbidding participation of a judge's child in an event they judged in, you'd soon have no volunteer judge pool, IMO. Should my kids be penalized by not being allowed to play in our local event because I voluntarily GAVE UP MY chance to play in this event to serve as a judge?

No judges = no events. If there was a rule like this you'd see the number of volunteers dwindle; this is supposed to be a family game, after all.

JMHO,
'mom
 
evil psyduck said:
Still should not be allowed to judge if your sons are in the tournament. That is the only way to make it fair and leave no doubt about it
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Just making a point above.

I agree with mom here

But to be more detailed
I am never the head judge and at premier tourneys there is always at least 2 judges in all events I have assisted. They usually cover their games.

But this brings up a good point.
I will assume that many "Profs/Judges" have family playing in an event.
I will assume that many "Profs/Judges" have friends playing in an event.
I will assume that most "profs/judges" run/play at some local league and bring a few of their players to premier tourneys.

There are numerous relationships that "could" sway impartiality.

Should that make a person inelligible ?

I dont think so.

Heck I umpire softball in my state. In our local leagues we have several teams that over years you develop a good"relationship" with. There are also a few brand new teams each season. Can I be impartial? Sure I can.
when a good friend of 12 years is on a team and they come to bat, can I be impartial? Sure I can.
When I work a state championship and a local team I see all summer is playing someone from across the state, can I be impartial? Sure I can.


IMHO if you have good honest persons running a tournament you will usually be ok IMHO


I usually have to drive 2-4 hours to attend a premier event. If asked to judge I will bring my kids, they will play. All players will be treated fairly.

But is was hard to be impartial yesterday when my two sons played against each other at a CC . ;)
 
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annisarich said:
The ability to be impartial and knowledge of the game are in no way related.
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I agree that the two are of themselves unrelated. In Yoshi's thread I even suggest that knowledge of the rules is probably the least important requirement from a judge!

However I do believe that if you do not know the rules then even if you are 100% impartial mistakes will occur that may look like a lack of impartiality from the players perspective. Someone who doesn't know the rules of the game is likely to make many mistakes :( I do believe that it is harder for an ignorant judge to be impartial than a knowledgeable judge, not that it is impossible.

Like you I tend to be much harder on my own son when I have to give a judgement. Mostly I try to excuse myself from judging my son even though I am often Head Judge. Its a tricky call. it requires 'judgement'
 
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annisarich - there is no way we can fix the relation with this distributor anymore. Never ever untill they have deeply excused themselves from what they have done to me and the other gymleader.
And saying sorry is not enough.
There are people on this earth were you have to stay far away from and this man is one of them.


About judging your own kids, I even swapped places with another judge (at a Stadium Challenge) when it appeared that I had to judge my own sons.
I don't like to do it. I always try to send someone else if they have a question.
The kids themselves also prefer another judge because they say I'm not so patience with them as with other players (read they get a warning sooner).
 
Rainbowgym said:
The kids themselves also prefer another judge because they say I'm not so patience with them as with other players (read they get a warning sooner).
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Thats what my kid always says also :p

it is too bad that you cant find something deep to at least look like your burring the hachet (not in his back).

It would be for the benifit of your players..

But a person can only take so much....
 
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