OFFICIAL: Tournament Round structure for Regionals

This information about the structure of rounds at the upcoming Regionals is from Professor_Dav. It will be published in tournament documents soon, but I mentioned players have been craving this information so here it is.

NOTE: the pertinent information for Regionals, in particular for Masters, is the 227-409 attendance range on the second chart. The point in sharing this ASAP was to start educating people about the two-day split. I expect some subtleties of the rest of the information may be better explained in the official documentation.

Cities, States, and Small Regionals

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[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Attendance[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Swiss Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Playoff[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None (run only 3 Swiss rounds)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9-12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]13-20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]21-32[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]33-64[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]65-128[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]129-226[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]227-409[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Large Regionals and Nationals

​

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 800, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Attendance[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Swiss Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Day 2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Playoff[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None (run only 3 swiss rounds)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9-12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]13-20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]21-32[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]33-64[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]65-128[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]129-226[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]None[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]227-799[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9 Rounds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]X-2 or T32 whichever is greater (5 rounds)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]800 or higher[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9 Rounds (2 flights)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]X-2 or T32 whichever is greater (6 rounds)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Top 8[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

​

 

Will LCs have that same round structure? Or will they be based on last season's round structures? That looks MARVELOUS for small-to-medium sized tournaments.

 

Lol

171717171717

 

10 rounds for 410-799?

 

For the x-2 cut into day two. Is that 9 rounds total between the two days, or 9 rounds day 1, and 5 rounds day two?

 

For 410-799, they play 9 Bof3 rounds on Day One, and then 5 more Rounds of Bof3 on Day 2. 14. Total. Rounds.

How cool is that.

 

Question about States larger than 226: How should they be run? Should you bump to 9 rounds, straight cut to T8? Or some other style yet to be announced? I love EVERYTHING else that's up there, gives Pokemon an elegant tournament structure IMO.

 

I think it would be better to have the day 2 entries still larger for a US nats size event. 6-3 in the first 9 rounds can still make a very good finish with 6 more rounds. Even if they don't top 8, each level of nationals is now worth a lot of points. Though US nats was already 3 days so maybe it will have its own unique structure.

I guess in general I'd rather see the day 2 cuts larger. Why should someone who had some bad luck to go 6-3 be denied the chance to go 4-1, 5-0 the next day when it isn't adding time? From a minimizing variance over the event perspective, the day 2 cut doesn't help. (more rounds absolutely helps, very glad to see that...at least for regionals) I suppose it adds tables but not a whole lot of them.

Otherwise, this seems like a good structure. I wouldn't mind 2-day states now though if they could get the extra swiss rounds. The extra swiss rounds is really what makes the smaller cut work, but for the 1 day events we're paying that time cost for 2/3 swiss. It's still debatable whether we'd be better off with single game 30 minutes and a few more rounds rather than the awkward 50 min 2/3.

 

Yes, above 226 players would be 9 Rounds T8 in a single day by default. But with some PTOs experimenting with 2-day States, it could be different.

 

I would have liked another round or two for swiss at some of these larger events.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems good to me since ties will be a thing. While 6-3 might not make cut, but 6-2-1, or 5-2-2 would make cut, so it's not quite as punishing, and it takes some of the variance away of some 6-3's making cut while others don't, assuming the number of x-2's is greater than 32 which I think it should be at most things.

 

So regional championships with 227+ attendance have become a 3 tiered event? 9 rounds of swiss day 1 and a "preliminary" top cut of X-2 (or top 32) day 2, followed by the actual top 8 cut consisting of players with the best records on day 2. How is top 8 determined? Is it inclusive of day 1 records (14-0, 13-1, etc.) or just the best records after day 2 preliminaries where day 1 records no longer matter (5-0, 4-1, etc.)? Also, what conditions would result in a tie? Intentional draw, game 2 goes to time (>50% of prizes taken?), something else? Is there no more sudden death? Will all regionals use the 3-0-1 point system for win/loss/tie, respectively? Need answers for next week's event.

 

I would assume day 1 records are included in day 2, it would be horrible if they weren't. To my knowledge you get a tie with an incomplete game 3 after +3 turns or an intentional draw. There is no sudden death. If game 2 is unfinished when +3 turns is over the game 1 winner wins the match. I'm sure the point system is the same for everywhere as that is very standard and used in other games.

 

Makes no sense to include Day 1 in Day 2. Day 2 is likely separate with its own Opponent's Win %. This helps keep your Theme Deck R1 / R2 opponents from bringing down your Opponent's Win % as everyone in the X-2 / Top 32 cut will be competent.

Also wondering what is considered X-2. For example, in a 227 Regional, let's say I win 2 games, tie 5, and lose 2. Do I make it to Day 2?

 

So, going 9-0 on day one is the same thing as 7-2 and the records should reset for 5 rounds of swiss? No. This isn't a top cut or single elimination. You, and everyone else shouldn't worry so much about opponent's win percentage when there are 15 rounds, either. I feel strongly about this.

 

Did not realize this was an unknown, it's been on the Fort Wayne regional thread for awhile.

More importantly, that post specifically states "21 points", which is far from the 0-2-7 that could cut if it was truly all x-2.

That means 6-0-3 cuts too. Going to be very interesting.

 

Also, am I the only one who finds it odd that they specifically call out a difference at 410, but there is no actual difference in tournament structure?

 

King Piplup, you are correct, Derek explained it as best he could in this post, but not a lot of people have seen that. I received the information above, and similarly I was told I can share the formation because players need to know about the two-day split. I think until the information is publishes, there is still more to learn. For instance, Derek says he bases his "21 points" on Magic, so I suppose it remains to proven that this is the case for us. I don't know for sure how to reconcile it against the "X-2" information I have above.

I added the below statement to my post, just to highlight what players should be looking at.

NOTE: the pertinent information for Regionals, in particular for Masters, is the 227-409 attendance range on the second chart. The point in sharing this ASAP was to start educating people about the two-day split. I expect some subtleties of the rest of the information may be better explained in the official documentation.

 

The "21 point" caveat guarantees only players with 6 wins have a chance to cut and anyone with 7 wins guaranteed cut.