Old-school Nidos, new twists (Unlimited)

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by dkates, Sep 11, 2003.

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  1. dkates

    dkates New Member

    This deck is based heavily on a strategy I alluded to in a post in the RTC, "TCG Strategy Puzzle." In it, I pointed out that in the best-case scenario, by swarming Nidoking, Nidoqueen's Boyfriends attack can do 100 damage on turn 2. That's enough to Knock Out pretty much anyone short of Chansey. This one is extremely rogue, employing not just 1, but 2 Stage 2 lines, and the card ratios are not quite normal for a deck I'd build. LMK what you think. All comments and fixes would be appreciated.

    Pokemon (21):
    1 Cleffa (Genesis)
    2 Chansey (Base)
    3 Nidoran <female> (Jungle)
    4 Nidoran <male> (Base)
    2 Nidorina (Jungle)
    2 Nidorino (Base)
    4 Nidoking (AQ, not Crystal)
    3 Nidoqueen (Jungle)

    Trainers (24):
    3 Computer Search
    3 Gold Berry
    2 Gust of Wind
    3 Item Finder
    2 Lass
    4 Pokemon Breeder
    2 Pokemon Fan Club
    2 Professor Oak
    2 Switch
    1 Town Volunteers

    Energy (15):
    4 Double Colorless Energy
    6 Grass Energy
    5 Fighting Energy

    Strategy: This deck centers around Jungle Nidoqueen's Boyfriends attack, with a secondary focus on AQ Nidoking. Trainers are fairly standard. Like I mentioned above, in a good scenario, I'll swarm Nidokings and get out a Nidoqueen turn 2, powered up for Boyfriends. Best-case scenario, I'm doing a dependable 100 damage for 2 Energy. Unless I get a pretty bad draw, I should at least be able to pull off 60 damage. Cleffa for hand-changing, and Chansey helps cover the major Psychic Weakness I have from both Nido lines. Also, it can stall if I'm having trouble getting my strategy underway.
    As far as my lower stages on the Nido lines, Nidoran Male is a fair substitute for Tyrogue, since its attack is the same except for its cost [(G) vs. (C)]. Its low HP can be trouble, but it shouldn't be Active often if I can help it. Nidoran Female has decent HP for a Stage 2's Basic and can help me swarm Nidorans. The Nidorina and Nidorino are pretty default, and can do decent damage (0/30/60 for Nidorina, 0/30/60 or straight 50 for Nidorino), but I'll only use them when I must, since each of their damage attacks require at least 3 Energy cards, except for Nidorino's version of Double Kick, which takes 2.
    Nidoking on its own is expensive for Unlimited, but can pack a fair punch if I need it. It also helps cover my Psychic Weakness, since its bottom stats are different -- Grass Weakness, which I can live with, and Lightning Resistance, which is good against R. Zappy and Electabuzz. It also has more HP (110!), and its Power can be useful. It is a second Energy type, but I don't mind that. What could be an issue is the fact that its attack costs (F)(F)(C)(C), which means that I can't attack with it until turn 3 at the earliest. Of course, Base Nidoking would have had that same problem, since its attacks cost (G)(G)(C) and (G)(G)(G).
    I have not playtested this deck yet. Theoretically, this deck's weaknesses, as I see them, are that it uses 2 Stage 2's, which might make for speed problems, and that my stars have high (3) Retreat Costs, while I only found room for 2 Switches. If anyone can recommend a good way to fit in 1-2 more, I'd appreciate it. I also wasn't able to find room for Energy Removal/Super Energy Removal or counters to them, and I need that, considering that most of my attacks need at least 2 Energy cards. My only request is that any fixes include not only what cards to put in, but which ones to take out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2003
  2. Salient

    Salient New Member

    Meh. It seems like a fun deck but it would be too slow for any competetive play. And this deck simply needs more energy. Am I the only one around here who plays with 20 in their deck?
     
  3. Captain Obviousx1

    Captain Obviousx1 New Member

    Ooh, ooh, I play with around that much energy! Twenty energy is cool! Seriously...how can you survive on such little energy, dkates? I can't judge the deck, seeing as there's almost no way to fix it without taking away the theme completely. Looks kinda fun though...100 damage for two would be sweet. Granted, it takes so much just to get to that point, but it's cool. The only thing is, I have this odd feeling that you're gonna end up drawing a bunch of Nidorans every now and then and getting totally screwed...
     
  4. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Well, it's more a fun deck than a competitive deck, and I can't put in more Energy without wrecking my Pokemon or Trainer engine. You're right that it's probably pretty slow -- I said that myself in the top post. Actually, I usually play with 13-16 Energy, and it's usually just fine, although I don't usually play Energy eaters.
     
  5. Salient

    Salient New Member

    Don't worry, you're not alone in the category of low energy players. At the place where I used to play cards everyone played with the same amount of energy as you do. I came in one week playing 4 of each Removal and owned the tourny.
     
  6. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Hmmm... looks like your opponents weren't ready to counter ER/SER. If you're playing low Energy, that's a must.
     
  7. Salient

    Salient New Member

    There really isn't much to do in way of countering Removals. Unless you mean just by playing general Trainer removal cards like Lass and Rocket's Sneak Attack.
     
  8. Captain Obviousx1

    Captain Obviousx1 New Member

    There's also the possibility of running ER Gym/Ecogym. ER Gym really thrives with other hand destruction cards to back it up though...so basically RSA and Trap are musts, as is Lass. I play it as a gym-breaker that can benefit me (when I play it), so I think it can stand alone as well.
     
  9. Salient

    Salient New Member

    Well, I'm not really afraid of the two gyms. People are surprised about how much of my hand (read: all) I'm willing to give up just to screw him over. As for Eco Gym, I don't really care if the energy goes back into their hand. The main reason I play Removals is to basically slow the opponent down and give me extra time to do my thing. :)
     
  10. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Yes, there's that. If you're playing Basic Energy, there's also Fisherman (should have remembered that one, but I "built" this on Apprentice without Skyridge). There's Trainer denial like Slowking/Chaos Gym or the rogue Dark Vileplume. There's Ecogym. There's single-Energy attacks. There's Pokemon like Mewtwo ex and Rocket's Zapdos that pull Energy from the discard. There's playing your own ERs to keep your opponent from being able to SER. But, even though there are a number of strategies to counter ER/SER, you're right that they're hard to counter. In most decks, I play at least 3 SER myself.
     
  11. Captain Obviousx1

    Captain Obviousx1 New Member

    Dark Vileplume is just sick. I wonder why it's rogue...maybe most players can't live without playing Trainers? Seriously, that just kills many of the decks out there. I'm thinking about gathering the cards for it...it would be awesome, and so much fun, especially when you see the look on your opponent's face. The best reactions are from people who don't do anything to stop Poke Powers...
     
  12. dkates

    dkates New Member

    No kidding -- I posted a Dark Vileplume deck here myself not too long ago. I think the only reasons people don't play Dark Vileplume are that it's a Stage 2 (whoop-de-do) and people don't know how to build a deck that can run without having Trainers available once it's going. That isn't easy, but who said deckbuilding was supposed to be easy?
     
  13. Salient

    Salient New Member

    The deck that kills every other deck is a Slowking deck. Get multiple Slowking out and then you can play trainers but your opponent has to flip two coins to play his.
     
  14. Captain Obviousx1

    Captain Obviousx1 New Member

    I'm actually in the process of constructing a Dark 'Plume now, lol. I think I can get most of the needed cards, so I should be good. The only problem is I'll have 24 open slots after Pokes/Energy...hmm...stuff to work with there. My theory on 'Plume is, you need to have some Trainer structure in place if by some odd chance you can't get out the 'Plume(or Powers get turned off). I plan on running around an almost-normal Trainer structure for this reason.
     
  15. Salient

    Salient New Member

    I really like Dark Plume decks. I played one for a couple of weeks. It is so fun going up against a rain dance deck that only runs Breeders, going first, and getting a second turn Plume. XD
     
  16. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Building a Dark 'Plume deck, you say? Cool! IMO, you should use Pokemon and Special Energy for as many Trainer effects as you can, and run Trainers with two main purposes -- Getting the 'Plume(s) out, and Trainer removal (like Lass) for when/if Powers do get turned off. There are so many good partners for the 'Plume, it's not even funny! Now, let's try to get back on topic.
     
  17. Captain Obviousx1

    Captain Obviousx1 New Member

    Trainer Removal might be difficult for me to get, but I'll try to throw some in there. I think I can run some RSA and maybe Lass(the big hitter). My setup is going to be in the mold of a G/L Haymaker, using 'Buzz from Base, Rocket's Zap, Scyther, Cleffa(the MUST have), and the mandatory Oddish. Oh yea, and Ditto might be an option as well, though I doubt he's gonna make the cut. Anyway, I plan to make a topic about it soon once I compose my final version of the deck, so look out for that in the upcoming days.

    Back on topic...what does Pokemon Fan Club do, exactly?
     
  18. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Fan Club, a Supporter, lets you pull two Basic Pokemon from the deck and put them on your bench. It's one of my favorite Trainers.
     
  19. Captain Obviousx1

    Captain Obviousx1 New Member

    Oh...that's cool on so many levels. Very nice with Sneasel/Wiggly, as well as many other decks. That's cool right there...I like it. ^_^
     
  20. dkates

    dkates New Member

    Yep. Here, it helps me pull the Nido Basics I need, making it easier for me to swarm Nidoking.
     
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