One Amazing Card: Ditto

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by kristi, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. kristi

    kristi New Member

    How can you not love this card? It can an amazing stall card, an incredable starter, AND a good attacker. It also still has one retreat and +20 weakness even after it transforms. I think that in any deck this card could play a valuable part. True, it doesn't copy powers and bodies, but it doesn't copy weakness and retreat cost, either. I am planning on making a deck with this card. It's a mew d, but it doesn't always have 60 HP. It can have the ability to snipe, spread, cause special conditions, anything that your opponent's active pokemon can do. If your opponent sends up a Jirachi saying ha ha I get any card in my deck, you can play down a ditto and laugh in their face. I just think that it will be a great card and see some play for BRs at least. Maybe all through next season. Any thoughts?

    Ditto is Here.
     
  2. gengardeckwinzz

    gengardeckwinzz New Member

    warp point pretty much kills ditto due to its 60 hp
     
  3. Brawler

    Brawler <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    ^warps into another ditto with snowpoint in play.

    This is a very bad starter in decks. Your opponent plays a starer that corresponds with their deck,

    you have no tech energy for it, you lose a prize early.
     
  4. Ryuzaki

    Ryuzaki New Member

    I dunno, the Copy techs were good because they gave you another type. Ditto's interesting though. I thought that about Warp Point too but you still gotta do 60 to it, Mew d only had 60 and was played so its not really the death of the card. I quite like the idea of starting with it actually, you can copy a Sableye, it can still use Call Energy/Evo TM, if the opponent gets up a quick Stage 2, then its auto got their HP and should last a turn or two. I guess you'll be using Multi Energies but its a shame there's not much else to let it use a multitide of attacks such as Holon's Castform.
     
  5. CyberManectric

    CyberManectric Active Member

    I dunno. If Ditto could copy Powers and Bodies like the original Fossil Ditto could then it'd be much better. (Heck, it'd probably be broken in our current format). Maybe it'll have some use in Skittles or a Garchomp X deck.
    ~Cyber~
     
  6. The Phenom1993

    The Phenom1993 New Member

    Retreating, Switching, Warp Point, and any other card that makes you switch could pwn him. Stopping his body would also hurt him a lot.
     
  7. Magic_Umbreon

    Magic_Umbreon Researching Tower Scientist, Retired

    I've been meaning to write some sort of analysis of Ditto for quite a while, so here goes...

    So much HP

    Aside Ditto's achile's heel of failing on the bench, Ditto is an effective wall against anything with high HP. You get higher HP with snowpoint temple, and usually as you bring Ditto out when it can copy, you are getting first strike. In order for your opponent to outdamage you, they really need to keep a powerhouse on the bench to bring out when Ditto is out. Ditto isn't going down in one hit, and for the times when warp point or a retreat to a low HP poké does get it in one attack, not only have you forced them to essentially disrupt themselves by wasting game effects and resources, but you have only lost a basic pokémon, not a basic+candy+stage2.

    Low attack costs are the play

    Reading discussion of Legends Awakened cards and the DP-on metagame, I think certain cards with low energy attacks are getting a lot of limelight. Main example being Kingdra. Against Kingdra, Roseanne (or telepass a roseanne) will fetch you everything you need to fully setup a "Kingdra" in the form of ditto. Other pokémon such as the pixies, froslass or random things such as a Mewtwo after using Giga Blast. Jirachi and Furret are very copyable and may well see play.

    Ditto can do stuff even if you can't copy

    Call energy is highly played, and with the new technical machine cards, give Ditto lots of options if they try and disrupt your copying. Evolving your bench, devolving the pokémon you have softened (although this clashes with snowpoint temple) amongst other things is a very useful thing for Ditto to do if you really are out of options otherwise.

    A good timewaster

    Posing a threat using very few resources, allows you to develop stronger pokémon on the bench. While they are using candies, searching pokémon to attack ditto with or to reduce its max HP, you can focus your effects on a stronger pokémon. If they don't send out the bug guns for Ditto to copy, you can take the initiative with the pokémon you were developping. And of course, when they use something to stop that attack, Ditto can march right in and copy/wall.

    So techable

    Literally every single deck benefits from Ditto for mirror games. E.g. a Kingdra deck could use Ditto as a mini-Kingdra while you focus resources on Claydol to respond to an early Kingdra. A Magnezone deck could move all the energies needed over to a just played Ditto and copy their attack, free retreating back and pulling the energy back when Ditto is no longer needed. In an AMU mirror, you could copy Supreme Blast 200 after they have done it to you, or are building it. If you did not yet have Azelf LvX out, Ditto is a suitable pokémon not to take weakness damage.

    And by the way, Ditto can copy Garchomp's restore without even needing a single energy. Could a Garchomp player ever take the risk you might drop a Ditto and restore straight back at them? (And for even more LOLs Garchomp is weak to Ditto's type, but Ditto isn't). So basically, Ditto is an autowin versus Garchomp.
     
  8. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I <3 Ditto

    Magic_Umbreon made a lot of good points. Sure, it'd be awesome to be able to use all the attacks of the opponent, but that would be really messed up. How messed up is Ditto against Kingdra, Garchomp lv.X, or with enough energy, Gallade. Oh look, I get to flip all my prizes to OHKO your Gallade. Oops. It does have it's limitations though, so it's not going to be as good as Mew* d.
     
  9. Muk Man

    Muk Man New Member

    AS Amazing as ditto is... you will only run 1 maybe 2 and thats dangerous... why you may ask.... as the post above me states yes while it is active it is a great card, but because warp point will be so important this format (because of the low energy cost attacks) ditto is just going to be a stall card while you set up the bench, and once the pull the warp point on you, they get another free shot on you new acctive.
    2nd because i know most good ditto players will run multi energy, Shuckle will be the ditto counter, they won't be able to attack you, and you shut off their body,
    3rd, because no one wants a Ditto, vs Ditto Match-up...lol thats whould judt be too funny...lol
     
  10. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    You have to be kidding, this card is bad.

    Let's say they do 70 damage to you, and then play Warp Point. Your Ditto is knocked out. Nice.
     
  11. Brawler

    Brawler <a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=

    ^ Assuming they dont play snowpoint.
     
  12. Muk Man

    Muk Man New Member

    No It's not BAD... it does and will have it's uses. but don't count on it being anything more than what it is... a Great tech card.
    But then again, because Mewtwo lv X will be so popular... it is the perfect counter, like OOPS your mewtwo LVx Is useless...lol i know it's gonna happen this season
     
  13. prof unky dan

    prof unky dan New Member

    i have to agree, needing the matching color energy on ditto kinda kills it...
     
  14. Magic_Umbreon

    Magic_Umbreon Researching Tower Scientist, Retired

    If we're going to talk about warp point, it's more than just a difficulty, it's fatal. My reasons are possibly a little different however. I believe that the reason warp point is a problem is because of Jirachi, Gallade, Azelf, Porygon-Z LvX and Furret. Particularly Azelf, which IMO is one of the best cards in LA. Because you know what is in your prizes before you play Azelf, you know exactly whether cards such as Warp Point are there, then as soon as you are about to take a prize (or in preperation), wham down Azelf goes and you just got that card you already knew was there. And if it wasn't there, your chances of drawing into it are even better. It is imperative the Ditto user plays enough wagers to counter these strategies consistently, so only drawing into the warp point is a problem. Porygon is not counterable with wager, they can just pull the warp point out.

    Basically, I think the reason warp point is a problem is because of the ease of getting it against a Ditto.

    Metagross also disrupts Ditto.

    I'd just like to point that this whole "warp point 60 KO" business is considerably less of a vulnerability than most candy using decks have to devolution methods. Omastar is even more potent with psychic lock less of a threat, and there is a new TM to devolve non-LvX pokémon. A pokémon that is KOed via devolution loses the resources of:

    • The rare candy used
    • The basic pokémon
    • The stage 2 card
    • Combination of basic and stage 2 requires more search cards than just the basic

    Compared to just the basic in the case of Ditto. Ditto players can make a warp point KO harder with snowpoint. And every warp point played is a warp point unavailable for later, and a warp point they had to use on the Ditto, ie not saved for things like status or to save energies.

    If they play 3 warp points, it is fair to assume that 1 will either be unattainable due to prizes, or not drawn into. Drawing into all 3 when needed is possible, but I don't think it's going to happen often unless you use one of the things I described earlier (such as Porygon or Azelf). With only 2 warp points, the Ditto player has the advantage due to either just playing more Ditto or the ability to recycle with night maintenance.

    For a player to successfuly counter Ditto, I think they need many ways to disrupt down the HP. Including removing Snowpoint, using something to get warp point when needed not lucky topdeck, not be too focused on the ditto instead on the threat building up while Ditto is turnwasting.

    Even with warp point and the other vulnerabilities such as color matching, I hold what I have always thought about Ditto: mammoth HP from a basic and getting to use the attacks of Level X pokémon against them from a basic is explosive and game changing. I think the pros outweigh the cons significantly, such that the card should be staple in any archetype that can make use of it in the mirror.
     
  15. Killax

    Killax New Member

    Not to bother you, but the great thing about ditto is that you can't do it the way you said it like now, after you attack your turn ends, and about 80% of the time it's stil there.

    My personal use for it is pure stalling, with all those hyped kids who want to go and play Kingdra you can plant a Kingdra against them and they'll have something to bite at and you can prepare if needed.

    All in all a very awesome tech card, but needs skill to be used proparly.

    Edit: Now Magic Umbreon, I think you've coverd it all. People shout about warp point killing it, ofcourse it is dangerous if you use it against them however, like my above post mentions warp pointing it, might just help your opponent.

    Again, it's a great tech, if you agree or don't. It is not a killer pokemon, it's body doens't allow that (or you will play 4 multi energies, but that's to hard because you can't search them) however, it's impact is great. You don't need candy like other impact pokemon and it can pop from out of no-where. Something that is much harder for a Omastar/Togekiss, the build up for that just takes time. 1 Roseanne and you could be in a new world of pain.

    Our small pink friend is leathal vs leathal players ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2008
  16. master of puppets

    master of puppets New Member

    Lol, I have got to quote that! It'll be as good as Scizors!

    Ditto is an amazing card. Sure it can be ko'd by something as dumb as Warp Point, but really, are you going to even bring it active unless you know it will be great to your benefit?
    No, you won't.
    And when I do bring it up, it will probably be to ko something that could pose a threat to me, so I bring Ditto up and KO them.
    At that point, I don't care if I get Ko'd back, after all, it's just a Ditto, I really didn't have to go through that much trouble to get it going.
    Whereas your big stage 2 took 2-3 Pokemon and probably for that one energy.
    I see Ditto with a lone water energy being a fantastic new tech, and I am actually going to put on in my BR deck right now. lol
     
  17. orangematt

    orangematt New Member

    Ditto CANNOT use an opponent's Call Energy. I don't think I need to reread Ditto, but Call Energy is not an attack.
     
  18. Prime

    Prime Content Developer<br>Blog Admin<br>Contest Host

    I believe that would be correct. Call Energy is not an attack, it is an effect of an energy. I am not even sure that Ditto would be able to copy the opponent's TMs since Ditto copies the opponent's attacks but the TMs are not really the Pokemon's attacks, he just can choose to use it instead of it's own.
     
  19. Ryuzaki

    Ryuzaki New Member

    Ditto cannot copy TMs.
     
  20. swift1984

    swift1984 New Member

    Sonic Blade pretty much kills it :)
     

Share This Page