Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

One Side of the AZ States issue(now with both sides post 117)

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BLiZzArD

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I was driving 6 other passengers to the event when one of my passengers needed his insulin (diabetes) and we were forced to turn around. This gave us a bit of a time issue, and after hitting literally every red light we possibly could, we ultimately ended up being 2 minutes and 37 seconds late. My wife was the Head Judge and we kept in close contact with her throughout this entire time, so she knew that we were running a bit late. Granted, we did assume we were going to be there on time (before we hit all the red lights) and as such, told her we would be there.

We did show up late, this is our fault, regardless of our reasons. I understand that it was posted that the P.T.O. reserved the right to refuse us to enter the tournament. However, knowing that she had never actually gone that far, and given all of our track records for never showing up late, I do feel that this was absolutely uncalled for. Personal reasons or not, I don't believe a P.T.O. should ever enforce that rule without at least a previous warning for having been late before.

The fact of the matter is that we had three traveling players, one from southern Arizona (3.5 hours), one from So Cal (5.5 hours), and finally one from New Mexico (9 hours). These players, along with us locals all took a lot of time out of our daily life schedules to participate in this event, this is something that can never be given back to us. I can speak for all of us when I say that we were truly hurt when the ruling was given out, and we did what we could do to overturn it. Unfortunately, nothing could be done, and that's that.

The P.T.O. claims that she was never aware about the medical issue, and if that's so, then that is unfortunate. The diabetic passenger did tell the new head judge (my wife, the head judge before this debacle, quit after the ruling was passed) and we as a team tried to get through to the P.T.O. but she wouldn't hear our case out.

There were also 2 players there, an 11 year old girl and her older brother, who were 6 minutes late. I had the privilege to speak to them both, and they mentioned they started playing the game in August of last year. I’ve been in this game long enough to understand that what was done to us is completely unjustifiable, but even worse; it was also done to the players that we are trying to promote this game to. These are the players who will help our great game grow, the players who we all love to see come to events because it tells us that this game is not dying out; it’s still growing after 10+ years! As a group we all hung around outside of the event and spoke to the newer players and explained that this has never happened and that we hoped it’d never happen again, and we did what we could to encourage them to continue to come to these events. We played some games with them and after a while we all called it a day and went home.

This is another point I’m trying to make. The people she turned away aren’t “the scum of Pokémon” but rather, we do everything in our power to promote the game and make this a fun environment for everyone. It really made me proud to see how even in the midst of everything, my friends gathered together and had fun and chatted with the 2 other players who were denied entry to the event. This is why I play this game, because of the great friendships we create and the great people this game attracts.

Ultimately, I'm just sad that the traveling players weren't allowed to play in this event. Since they all stayed with me and I was driving, I feel personally responsible for the tragedy. However, I don't believe that this ruling was fair by any means, and I will never agree with what was done. We can't change it, what's done is done, but I would just feel very bad if this ever happened to anyone again. Because we didn't just miss out on the event, we lost all of the hours we spent preparing for the event, and some of us lost a lot of time driving to the event and a lot of money was spent traveling. None of this will ever be given back to us, and what's saddest is that this was all done because of 2 minutes and 37 seconds.


BLiZz
 
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I feel really bad for all these ppl. I know the out of state kids can't come back, but I'd be more than willing to help organize another tournament so that we can have a REAL Arizona States. I missed not being able to whomp on you Ken :/ But in all seriousness, I think she should have let you guys in with a round loss or something. I would be SO mad if I spent that much time and money to not even be given a chance.
 
*randomly reading the Gym at 3 in the morning*

This situation makes me sick to my stomach and I think your explanation speaks for itself. The PTO should had AT THE VERY LEAST listened to what you had to say... I can't imagine any valid excuse as to why they wouldn't. Maybe there was a good reason for denying you entry, like they had already printed out the matches and seated people... but then they could had just given you guys first round losses.

We weren't there and don't know the PTO's side of the story, but if there is no side, that person should really answer to someone. :/ I mean, 2 minutes late? Pu-lease. This isn't boot camp. It's Pokemon. Sounds like someone was on a serious power trip.
 
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I am absolutely appalled by this. Not only do you have people traveling a good distance away from the event to attend it, but you have novice players who very well could be left with a terribly sour taste in their mouth. And if they don't have it, I'm sure their parents who drove them there certainly do.

Now lets look at it from another standpoint. Not only did these people take time out of their lives to make it to this event, but in the case of some of these players, they are very competitive players and ratings are very important to them. With a select number of premier events taking place during any given season, they opted to attend this States opposed to any others within driving distance, and as a result of poor organization they were wrongfully penalized. States is one of 4 major point hubs from the OP season, the other being the 2nd weekend of States, followed by Regionals and than Nationals. Missing one of their States is disasterous for their attempts to qualify for Worlds based on ranking.

I don't understand why the standard procedure, that used at Worlds, and Nationals, and every decently run event I've ever been to, of giving a round 1 loss for arriving late to an event cannot have been used. If we as players have to abide by Spirit of the Game, than judges, and to a larger extent PTOs should be held by the same expectations. This goes against everything this game offers as an alternative to the cutthroat nature of many other TCGs. PUI has done a fantastic job of making this game welcoming to new players and those who just want to have fun, and this sort of behavior is a giant slap in the face of all the great work they have done towards making this game competitive, yet more importantly,fun.

I am not exactly sure what was going through this persons head. Were they simply lazy and not wanting to deal with adding people to roster and in the computer? Were they on some self righteous power trip? Was it some degree of personal vendetta? Are they simply put incompetent? I'm guessing its a nice solid mixture of all of that.

The people who are involved with this are reliable as well. Many of the players have devoted years to this game. I mean, I guess you COULD question the honesty of the original poster if your reading this PUI/POP...he only was the head judges of Nationals for Masters last year.

Small aside- prior to Nationals last year, me and Blizz were in a bit of an...argument. It was rather heated. I had called him over for a ruling or two during the tournament, and he was completely professional and unbiased. In all honesty, things between us never really got smoothed over. I have absolutely no reason to come to argue his case here other than the fact that I am physically sickened by what happened with this scenario. Blizz ( and the others in question ) is a stand up guy, and has done an unbelievable amount for this game, and for this to be his repayment is disgusting.

I want to see 2 things come from this. Whoever ran this event should not be allowed to remain a PTO. I highly doubt their integrity after hearing about this from multiple sources. There NEEDS to be some degree of punishment for this. If someone is being entrusted with a major event for PUI, they need to be accountable if they make grave mistakes. This isn't some "accident" that occurred that someone was put on the spot for with a decision, such as a ruling or some degree of cheating that was handled poorly. This was nothing but an ignorant, active decision that shouldn't be ignored.

Secondly, for the players who were wronged, some sort of re-embursement would be great. I don't expect this as much as I hope for the first to happen, but if any of these players wind up 5-10 points short of an invite, I'm going to be extremely angry over this. Just try and put yourself in the mindset of the players wronged here.
 
People forget that this is just a kids' game and take it bloody too seriously. Chalk it up to an overzealousness until we hear the other side.
Cheers
 
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I am sorry to hear this. But isnt i that the PTO also ran late towards getting the tournament started?

Btw: The store were i usually buy cards and sleeves closed down, so i probably wont be bringing anything cool back :(
 
hey ken, i know the feeling....my kids and i attended the states there last year, coming from cali an 8 hour drive, i even kept in touch with one of the judges on our way there,thinking that we would be late, we got there about 10 mins before the cut-off time, we did our decklist, got in line, they did deck-checks, which took over 10 mins.......then went to registration line, then the head judge told us that all of us had to take first round loss which i did not agree.....from that one loss, my 3 kids missed out on the top cuts, a master, senior, and a junior......THAT WAS OUR FIRST AND LAST TIME THAT WE'LL BE ATTENDING ANY ARIZONA POKEMON TOURNAMENTS...........
 
"http://www.op.pokemon-tcg.com/tournaments/details.asp?tournament_id=903000071" states:

"FREE Pokemon Raffles! You MUST be in the registration line with deck list filled out by 9:45AM or you may have a first round loss. Format: Modified Constructed Deck (bring your own 60 card deck-Cards are allowed from Diamond Pearl or later as well as Promos from POP Series 6 and above and Black Star Promos DP01 and higher) "

The Pokegym is an unofficial forum. Whatever listing is posted on this forum should be identical to the offical listing in order to stand. This refusal to entry to the tournament is by no means justifiable. Blizzard and Co. should have recieved a first round loss maximum according to the OFFICAL tournament listing.

Although the POP operating proceedures state:

"2.1.4. Late Player Registration
........ If the Tournament Organizer feels that the addition of a late player will create a disruption to the integrity of the event, he or she may choose to refuse event entry to that player."

Would the TO PLEASE tell us how the addition of a player such as Blizz, who, I am led to beleive has done a great deal to promote the game and have the reputation of an impartial tournament judge "disrupt the integrity of the event".
Also even, the 11 year old players turning up late would surely not have the time, attention or interest to go through the entire POP proceedural handbook. It would have been enough for them to check the official listing on go-pokemon.com.

I share "Ruiner's" view on this matter. This TO better have something good to say in her defence.......

Tom H
 
Seems to me like AZ has some less-than-quality events being run, and it's not just a one time thing. That's a sad, sad thing to see.
 
I can't even imagine how badly all in evolved must feel this morning.


I know I can; I know these players personally and know how important Pokémon is to them. :frown:
I even know the PTO involved through playing in AZ/NM events and I'm surprised this happened; I've always really enjoy her events: always very organized and efficient, and she always came off as compassionate.:pokeball:

I know someone posted something about people taking this game too serious.
There is treating it like a black-and-white business rules-are-rules "very serious" issue and the other side being that it's "just a game" and "who cares about the rules" and "she should've let them in!".
We shouldn't look at this situation either way. When you become strict with these black and white rulings, sometimes situations that are exceptions get disregarded, or it's a make-or-break situation for someone compassionate and wise to step up and make the right call on an ultimately subjective situation.

All we need to do is look at the gray scale with how passionate these people are about this game, how much time, effort, travel, thought and heart players and organizers and judges put into this game. Then, look at the practical side as Ruiner brought up with ratings and invited. If all this doesn't appeal to someone in charge (hello, ethos/pathos/logos!!) then we as players are in the hands of some potentially heartless, illogical people.

Rules aren't meant to be broken, and they are there for a reason, but letting these players in, with a first round loss if needed, shouldn't have been ruled out so quickly for whatever reason. It might not have been ethical to some words written on a paper that generally help guide these events/this game to stay manageable, but it would've been the right thing to do for the ultimate spirit of the game, and all players involved (unless she had a kid in the event who wants a quick 6 player elimination, lol).
 
Ken: So sorry to hear that you and the others were denied entry into the event. I have my personal opinions on that issue, but will reserve them for private and will wait until I hear all sides.

As for the poster that clipped part of the info for this state championship, please include ALL the info. This is what the PTO posted on the 'Gym

"Time: Registration is at 8:00 AM. Starting at 10:00 AM. The main tournament (swiss rounds) will last 5 to 6 hours.

You must be in the registration line with your decklist ready by 9:45am or you may receive a first round loss or not be allowed to enter the event. Don't be late! "

Now, it doesnt say you will auto be denied entry, but it was listed as an option. IF this has been a problem in her area, then this may be a response for those late arrivals.

I personally know many of the parties involved here. I was HJ of the JRs @ Nats last year, along with Blizz (MA) and Spurlock (SR). Spookees has been on staff many many times over for Nats and Worlds. For those that are saying she is incompetent, I hope you don't live in glass houses. IMO, PUI thinks very highly of Spookees and Blizz. I think very highly of both of them. It was an unfortunate set of events and timing. Outside of this, I will keep my personal viewpoint private. I am sure that PUI will/has already responded to the PTO about this issue.

Keith
 
Blizz, I'm sure I don't need to tell you this but there is a report feedback button for tournaments, if I was you I would use it. BDS said there was another side to this story but I doubt we will ever get to hear it. Although Blizzards storys probably pretty close to what happened, that don't exactly let people low on integrity Head Judge Nats or at Worlds. Blizz nothing I can really say other than, that sucks. You did the right thing by turning around obivously Medical Issues>Pokemon.
 
As for the poster that clipped part of the info for this state championship, please include ALL the info. This is what the PTO posted on the 'Gym

If that refers to my post, please re-read.

Pokegym: "You must be in the registration line with your decklist ready by 9:45am or you may receive a first round loss or not be allowed to enter the event. Don't be late!"

Go-pokemon.com-"You MUST be in the registration line with deck list filled out by 9:45AM or you may have a first round loss"

As you can see, the not allowing people to enter consequence is only listed on the 'Gym, which i must say once again, is unoffical. It should have been correctly listed on the Official OP site in the first place.
 
Regardless of who is in the right or the wrong in this situation, I feel bad for the players who were turned away and the parents of the players that were turned away. I know from personal experience that the parents want to player to participate in the event just as much as the player wants to participate in the event and that it breaks their heart to see their child not able to participate maybe even more than it does the child's.

I was traveling with my mom to a tournament once. It was a small event, cities or battle roads, I can't remember. I don't usually travel with my mom as she is always working and I have friends I can travel with. We were going to a tournament out of state, to a place we've never been before. We got lost, and time was running short on registration. We both were very frantic in deciding what directions to go. Time came for registration to end, and I just sighed and said, "okay mom, take me home". My mom would not do that. She told me she was going to get me to the tournament. I had given up on the idea and told her that I wouldn't be able to play (kind of forgetting about a round one loss) but she just kept saying, "You will get to play in the event!" "Even if I have to force them...". We were lost for quite a while. We got off the interstate and she called the store. She pleded with the PTO and got directions from her current location and got me to the tourament. I was able to participate in the tournament with a round one loss. I ended up going undefeated in swiss other than the round one loss and barely missing the top cut because of it. I was very happy to be able to play in the event, and I know my mom was ten times happier than I am that I was able to play in the event. She was going to do anything in her power to get me to that event and allow me to play, and I love her for it.

I can't imagine how the parents of the players felt when they were told that their child wouldn't be able to play in the event...period. I am sure they felt awful. I am sure Blizzard feels awful even though it isn't his fault. I just hope those new players had some fun playing the other players that weren't allowed in and decide to give the game another chance.
 
POP Tournament Operation Procedures
2.1.4. Late Player Registration
If a player arrives to the tournament late, that player will receive losses for all of the rounds that have already started. It is at the Tournament Organizer’s discretion to wait to add the player until the round starts if the pairings are already up. If the Tournament Organizer feels that the addition of a late player will create a disruption to the integrity of the event, he or she may choose to refuse event entry to that player.
That's a tough one Ken. Personally, I think PTOs should try to accomodate late arrivals. But regardless, the PTO has the authority to do what she did. Bummer that she did it though.

So, did she explain the "disruption" that adding you would've caused?

Also, our PTO sometimes offers pre-registration. Pre-registration seems like a possible way to avoid this situation.
 
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Blizz, I'm sure I don't need to tell you this but there is a report feedback button for tournaments, if I was you I would use it. BDS said there was another side to this story but I doubt we will ever get to hear it. Although Blizzards storys probably pretty close to what happened, that don't exactly let people low on integrity Head Judge Nats or at Worlds. Blizz nothing I can really say other than, that sucks. You did the right thing by turning around obivously Medical Issues>Pokemon.

If he didn't participate in the tournament, it won't list it in his My Pokemon account so he cannot send feedback through this method.

Hate to see this happen Blizz, and hopefully things like this won't become common.
 
If that refers to my post, please re-read.

Pokegym: "You must be in the registration line with your decklist ready by 9:45am or you may receive a first round loss or not be allowed to enter the event. Don't be late!"

Go-pokemon.com-"You MUST be in the registration line with deck list filled out by 9:45AM or you may have a first round loss"

As you can see, the not allowing people to enter consequence is only listed on the 'Gym, which i must say once again, is unoffical. It should have been correctly listed on the Official OP site in the first place.

I also checked the op site. It says what you listed. I misread your post and you are correct that the 'Gym is not an official posting for events. Sorry I missed that part.

Keith
 
This is horrible. I heard about this debacle the morning of. It's absolutely ridiculous. Someone should not be a PTO anymore. What kind of disgusting power abuse trip to turn away players showing up 5 minutes late simple because you have the authority to.

This is absurd. Whomever organized this event should never organize an event again. I would consider quitting the game if I had to travel 9 hours, pay lots of money, and miss out on other things to get TURNED away for showing up late.
 
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